Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

[The Great I am]

>uses the corrupt practice of indulgences that were condemned by the Church as an argument against the Church
>applies failed argument to every single religion

Show the really poor exemptions to what I put or be seen as a fool.

Regards
DL

[Hakons]

As a Christian: we've all been saved as of the Crucifixion of Jesus.
.

So you think God/Jesus would condemn you just to turn around and die for you. Ok.

You seem to want to think that God can die.

This Bishop seems to think that you are taking an immoral path and I tend to agree with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

Can you really see Jesus breaking the law he said he came to earth to fulfill. Laws like the following?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Do those laws seem more moral to you than your notion that there is justice in punishing the innocent?

Make your case.

Regards
DL

Why are you quoting scripture if you are so hostile to religion? Scripture was written, compiled, and canonized by Christians, those who believe Christ was crucified for them.

[The Great I am]

[
It is completely disingenuous for the OP to claim what some corrupt priests did over 400 years ago reflects current Catholic doctrine, let alone the doctrine of all religions.

Indulgences continue to be asked for as we speak. They are just being called tithes.

What religion do you know of that does not ask for tithes?

Regards
DL

[Hakons]

[
It is completely disingenuous for the OP to claim what some corrupt priests did over 400 years ago reflects current Catholic doctrine, let alone the doctrine of all religions.

Indulgences continue to be asked for as we speak. They are just being called tithes.

What religion do you know of that does not ask for tithes?

Regards
DL

Tithes are not indulgences, my goodness. Being disingenuous is not a proper response to being charged with being disingenuous.

[Alvecia]

Hmm, nah

[The Great I am]

The extent of my 'saving' by Christians was being excommunicated because my great aunt has down syndrome and being condemned for my homosexuality and progressive ideals-both for society and the church. So I left entirely. I've found my new faith, and I'm glad that you've found yourself happy and cookie-cutter compatible to some degree with yours.

Free thinkers like Gnostic Christians tend not to be good cookie cutter material. That is one of the benefits of my religion.

Do you see yourself as just a cookie cutter version of those in your new religion?

Regards
DL

[El-Amin Caliphate]

You can't show a video of 1 religion and put it on others. You have to explain why you think each religion and its adherents have poor thinking.

Rather easy to do, but ok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... SPvnFDDQHk

Regards
DL

Not it's not easy. Each religion has its own morals and teachings, so you can't just do a "1 size fits all" technique on them.

[United States of Natan]

I'm Jewish, so no.

[The Great I am]

The Church has condemned its own actions where these actions were wrong. There is nothing wrong with admitting you have done wrong. It is in fact the Christian thing to do.

Christians admit to those evil actions, and should be forgiven to a point, perhaps, but that does not speak to their ongoing denigration and discrimination against gays and women with their vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL

[Hammer Britannia]

"Yes, I am currently stuck on a cliff and I am holding on to a single root as to not fall down and die...

Uh... Why are you reading me bedtime stories?..."

Falls and dies

Jokes aside, I have my own gods to look up to. Begone Missionary of the False Prophet Jesus
(jk, I have no problem with Christianity. I just don't believe in it)

[Page]

I wonder if there is a parallel universe where gnostic Christians won back in Roman Times and Nicean Christians became heretics, and in present day there is a NationStates where a rare 21st century Nicean Christian is expressing their obscure religious beliefs.

[Novus America]

[
It is completely disingenuous for the OP to claim what some corrupt priests did over 400 years ago reflects current Catholic doctrine, let alone the doctrine of all religions.

Indulgences continue to be asked for as we speak. They are just being called tithes.

What religion do you know of that does not ask for tithes?

Regards
DL

Umm because whether or not you contribute to the physical upkeep of the organization usually has no bearing on salvation. All organizations need money to operate. So most religious organizations ask (but do not demand) you donate to help the organization pay for maintenance, electricity, etc. Non religious organizations do the same (though are more likely to demand payment as a condition of membership).

But legitimate religious organizations do not claim your ability to be saved is based on whether or not or how much you donate. Again in the 1560s the Catholic Church declared financial contributions could NOT lead to salvation.

Maybe you should try actually understanding religions before attacking them with strawmen.

[Hakons]

The Church has condemned its own actions where these actions were wrong. There is nothing wrong with admitting you have done wrong. It is in fact the Christian thing to do.

Christians admit to those evil actions, and should be forgiven to a point, perhaps, but that does not speak to their ongoing denigration and discrimination against gays and women with their vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL

Like Gnostic Christianity didn't have the same moral theology. As people have discussed at length in the CDT, you're not actually a Gnostic and really just seem to be an anti-Christian agnostic.

[Hammer Britannia]

Umm... Can I get a quick tl;dr for wtf happened in this thread?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

No, I'm an atheist, which is something I've received ridicule over by priests due to me proclaiming my refusal to submit to dogma.

[The Greek Senate]

Umm... Can I get a quick tl;dr for wtf happened in this thread?

This is GnosticChristian. We're having fun with his illicit account while it still exists.

The extent of my 'saving' by Christians was being excommunicated because my great aunt has down syndrome and being condemned for my homosexuality and progressive ideals-both for society and the church. So I left entirely. I've found my new faith, and I'm glad that you've found yourself happy and cookie-cutter compatible to some degree with yours.

Free thinkers like Gnostic Christians tend not to be good cookie cutter material. That is one of the benefits of my religion.

Do you see yourself as just a cookie cutter version of those in your new religion?

Regards
DL

...No, that's why I left my faith. Do you think I would just jump from the frying pan to the flame? And what happened to your Protestantism at the start of the thread? Anyways, even though I'm not keen on sharing things about my faith, it's non-abrahamic. There is no cookie cutter. We have our Gods and that's the only similarity we need between each other.

[Rea]

Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

Most religions claim that we have all been condemned by God for some reason or another, and that faith in a certain God or his revealed religion must be adhered to to gain salvation. Most religions say that you cannot save yourself without their help.

Have you been condemned? Was it a just condemnation? What evil did you do to gain that condemnation? Have you been saved from it by your own efforts of the efforts of someone else?
Could you not do it on your own and did you need to pay cash the way religions tell you is required?

I show the poor thinking of religions and their adherents with this Protestant against Catholic view, but as stated, this issue applies to all religions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668D_MeV1nY

Regards
DL

Saved by the blood, partner. Saved by the blood.

If you ever encounter a spiritual problem you can't fix with your intellect or your body, that's when it's time to seek out faith. It's the reason a lot of folks get into established religion and increasingly, alternative or non-mainstream spiritual practices.

[Xmara]

Umm... Can I get a quick tl;dr for wtf happened in this thread?

GnosticChristian is back under a new account and is posting the same crap that got him in trouble last time.

[Hakons]

I wonder if there is a parallel universe where gnostic Christians won back in Roman Times and Nicean Christians became heretics, and in present day there is a NationStates where a rare 21st century Nicean Christian is expressing their obscure religious beliefs.

It's a bit unfair to the gnostics to say TGIA is one of them. Gnosticism died out, and modern offshoots aren't their ideological continuity, as they tend to just be some brand of hedonist, anti-religious, new-age group.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pSPvnFDDQHk

5 minutes in and this video has a lot of problems. And the woman shouldn't even be hosting this.

[Rea]

No, I'm an atheist, which is something I've received ridicule over by priests due to me proclaiming my refusal to submit to dogma.

Most religious dogma we see in churches today is unscriptural. The values and commandments of men have been conflated with God's doctrines.

"This people draweth night into me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." - Matthew 15:8-9

[Ascendatore]

Do you believe that you are saved or that you need saving?

No, and no. I need to suffer another approximately 427,000 years.

Have you been condemned?

Yes.

Was it a just condemnation?

Yes.

What evil did you do to gain that condemnation?

Nonexhaustive list: Perfidy, petty theft, masturbation, witchcraft, rape, human sacrifice, slavery, pedophilia, genocide

Have you been saved from it by your own efforts of the efforts of someone else?

No, that is impossible.

Could you not do it on your own and did you need to pay cash the way religions tell you is required?

It will take me the aforementioned period of 427,000 years to come up with sufficient funds, especially since the rate at which I will commit more evil acts will exceed the rate of my capital accumulation for most of the remaining period of my condemnation.

[Novus America]

The Church has condemned its own actions where these actions were wrong. There is nothing wrong with admitting you have done wrong. It is in fact the Christian thing to do.

Christians admit to those evil actions, and should be forgiven to a point, perhaps, but that does not speak to their ongoing denigration and discrimination against gays and women with their vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL

Moving the goalposts much?
I mean you can debate whether or not Christian doctrines on homosexuality and female clergy are correct (though they vary greatly from church to church).

But that has nothing to do with your initial claim that the discredited practices of over 400 years ago by one religions reflect the flaws of all religions.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Christians admit to those evil actions, and should be forgiven to a point, perhaps, but that does not speak to their ongoing denigration and discrimination against gays and women with their vile homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL

Like Gnostic Christianity didn't have the same moral theology. As people have discussed at length in the CDT, you're not actually a Gnostic and really just seem to be an anti-Christian agnostic.

I read a little about Gnosticism a long while ago. He's/she's actually pretty on point with the Gnosticism: http://gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

[The Great I am]

So you think God/Jesus would condemn you just to turn around and die for you. Ok.

You seem to want to think that God can die.

This Bishop seems to think that you are taking an immoral path and I tend to agree with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

Can you really see Jesus breaking the law he said he came to earth to fulfill. Laws like the following?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Do those laws seem more moral to you than your notion that there is justice in punishing the innocent?

Make your case.

Regards
DL

Why are you quoting scripture if you are so hostile to religion? Scripture was written, compiled, and canonized by Christians, those who believe Christ was crucified for them.

My beliefs are not important and I quote what the Christians are ignoring and should be important to them.

Thanks for the deflection, now can you deal with what I put, or is deflection your only apologetics?

Regards
DL