NationStates

Darussalam wrote:

Diopolis wrote:They lost the right to any such land at the crucifixion. The Jewish attacks on Palestine should be treated the same as any other example of white people ethnically cleansing brown natives.

So they should get to keep the land? Forcibly expelling whites from places where they formerly ruled seem to end badly for non-whites in those places, funnily enough.

I agree that crucifixion was perhaps their worst mistake, it birthed a false god that loomed over the world until this very day.

What do you mean “their”?
The Romans?
The system involving the Kingdom of Judea and the Herodian Tetrarchy was complicated, but at the time of the crucifixion Jerusalem was under Roman rule, not controlled by one of the Rome’s Israeli client states.

Some Jews supported the crucifixtion yes, (others against it) but it is hardly fair to attribute it to Jews a a whole. Let alone the current Israeli state.

I'd gently suggest we talk about the actual elections, rather than indulging anybody's weird anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

As a couple of asides: the majority of Israeli Jews are of Mizrahi (Middle Eastern or North African) descent, and to compare Zionism to European colonialism requires erasing the millennia-long history of the Jewish people in the land of Israel.

Some updates:

Bayit Yehudi have a leader! Rafi Peretz used to be Chief Rabbi of the IDF, he lived in the Gaza settlement of Gush Katif until the disengagement, he spoke out against soldiers who were threatening to disobey orders to implement the disengagement, and he's considered a relative moderate by religious-right standards (although he did once say that he didn't think the Temple Mount is all that important to Muslims). Bezalel Smotrich, the hardline leader of the Tkuma faction in the party, is not a fan.

Also by election day Hosen Yisrael won't be called 'Hosen Yisrael', but something else, because otherwise these elections wouldn't have been confusing enough.

Angleter wrote:I'd gently suggest we talk about the actual elections, rather than indulging anybody's weird anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

As a couple of asides: the majority of Israeli Jews are of Mizrahi (Middle Eastern or North African) descent, and to compare Zionism to European colonialism requires erasing the millennia-long history of the Jewish people in the land of Israel.

Less than half. Roughly 45% Mizrahi 40% Ashkenazim 14% Sephardim and ~1% Beyte. Plus even smaller minorities elsewhere. However this is largely irrelevant because there is heavy intermixing, especially in terms of Sephardics disappearing over centuries and 'becoming' the other two and in recent times with something like one in three Jewish kids in Israel having parents of both Ashkenazi/Mizrahi ethnicity.

So Likud had their primary election this week, which determines the order of candidates on their party list. The system makes it relatively easy to get a seat first time round as a representative of a sectoral group, like young people or certain regions, but incumbent MKs can't run for those sectoral positions, so a lot of the current Likud MKs have been knocked so far down the list that they're unlikely to get back in.

One of those who'll almost certainly be off is Oren Hazan, who won the 'youth' position last time. The son of Yechiel Hazan, himself most famous for trying to vote twice and then being caught trying to steal the computer which had the evidence of his double-voting on it, Oren has racked up an extraordinary number of controversies in just four years in office, to the extent that this article barely scratches the surface. Or this one. He now wants to join Otzma Yehudit.

Also out is Ayoub Kara, an Arab (Druze) MK and communications minister whose star has fallen since he said Israel was building killer robots to assassinate the leader of Hezbollah.

New entries, meanwhile, include Nir Barkat, the former mayor of Jerusalem who once took down a terrorist, and Gideon Sa'ar, who used to be a senior Likud minister until he left politics in 2013. Sa'ar is quite blatantly after Netanyahu's job and the fact that he came fourth indicates that the Likud base isn't that fanatically loyal to Netanyahu. Also the winner of the primaries, Yuli Edelstein, isn't known for being a Netanyahu loyalist either.

Angleter wrote:So Likud had their primary election this week, which determines the order of candidates on their party list. The system makes it relatively easy to get a seat first time round as a representative of a sectoral group, like young people or certain regions, but incumbent MKs can't run for those sectoral positions, so a lot of the current Likud MKs have been knocked so far down the list that they're unlikely to get back in.

One of those who'll almost certainly be off is Oren Hazan, who won the 'youth' position last time. The son of Yechiel Hazan, himself most famous for trying to vote twice and then being caught trying to steal the computer which had the evidence of his double-voting on it, Oren has racked up an extraordinary number of controversies in just four years in office, to the extent that this article barely scratches the surface. Or this one. He now wants to join Otzma Yehudit.

Also out is Ayoub Kara, an Arab (Druze) MK and communications minister whose star has fallen since he said Israel was building killer robots to assassinate the leader of Hezbollah.

New entries, meanwhile, include Nir Barkat, the former mayor of Jerusalem who once took down a terrorist, and Gideon Sa'ar, who used to be a senior Likud minister until he left politics in 2013. Sa'ar is quite blatantly after Netanyahu's job and the fact that he came fourth indicates that the Likud base isn't that fanatically loyal to Netanyahu. Also the winner of the primaries, Yuli Edelstein, isn't known for being a Netanyahu loyalist either.

Well, that just means that Netanyahu will keep them out of the cabinet. Lest we forget, the leadership primary was canceled in mid-January, so he's quite safe for the time being.

Labor have now had their primaries, with Itzik Shmuli and Stav Shaffir the big winners. Shmuli and Shaffir only entered politics in 2013 after leading protests about the cost of living, so this is something of a generational shift. Shaffir also did a campaign video in English.

Eitan Cabel, who had been a major critic of Avi Gabbay's leadership, has dropped to 13th place on the list, which isn't great for him considering that Labor are polling at, er, 6.

Also Gabi Ashkenazi, yet another former IDF chief, is reportedly not entering politics this time. It had been rumoured that he would join Benny Gantz's party, but only if they formed an alliance with Yesh Atid.

Angleter wrote:Labor have now had their primaries, with Itzik Shmuli and Stav Shaffir the big winners. Shmuli and Shaffir only entered politics in 2013 after leading protests about the cost of living, so this is something of a generational shift. Shaffir also did a campaign video in English.

Eitan Cabel, who had been a major critic of Avi Gabbay's leadership, has dropped to 13th place on the list, which isn't great for him considering that Labor are polling at, er, 6.

Also Gabi Ashkenazi, yet another former IDF chief, is reportedly not entering politics this time. It had been rumoured that he would join Benny Gantz's party, but only if they formed an alliance with Yesh Atid.

Reserved slot? So Gabbay's going to choose his own deputy?

Shrillland wrote:

Angleter wrote:Labor have now had their primaries, with Itzik Shmuli and Stav Shaffir the big winners. Shmuli and Shaffir only entered politics in 2013 after leading protests about the cost of living, so this is something of a generational shift. Shaffir also did a campaign video in English.

Eitan Cabel, who had been a major critic of Avi Gabbay's leadership, has dropped to 13th place on the list, which isn't great for him considering that Labor are polling at, er, 6.

Also Gabi Ashkenazi, yet another former IDF chief, is reportedly not entering politics this time. It had been rumoured that he would join Benny Gantz's party, but only if they formed an alliance with Yesh Atid.

Reserved slot? So Gabbay's going to choose his own deputy?

Yes. Apparently he can also choose 10th place, and 11th is reserved for the Secretary-General, so Cabel is in fact 15th.

But unless the polls change dramatically, Gabbay basically has one free Knesset seat to give away. Whoever gets it will probably be thankful, but not quite so thankful that they'd try to save Gabbay from the inevitable leadership challenge that'll come after the election.

Write in Trump.

Reichsstaaten von Germania wrote:Write in Trump.

If his Instagram is anything to go by, Trump appears to have his own idea of who to support.

Obviously the White House are insisting this is totally not an endorsement, but he did give Bibi his endorsement back in 2013. "He's a winner, he's highly respected, he's highly thought of by all... so vote for Benjamin, terrific guy, terrific leader, great for Israel."

Here's how the Meretz primaries went today: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-meretz-voters-head-to-polls-to-elect-slate-in-party-s-first-ever-primaries-1.6937567

The Number One spot will go to Tamar Zandberg, whilst a Druze schoolteacher, Ali Salalha, will be fifth place on the list.

Shrillland wrote:Here's how the Meretz primaries went today: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-meretz-voters-head-to-polls-to-elect-slate-in-party-s-first-ever-primaries-1.6937567

The Number One spot will go to Tamar Zandberg, whilst a Druze schoolteacher, Ali Salalha, will be fifth place on the list.

Non-paywalled list. Huge turnout, even if the actual number of Meretz members is probably not that huge. Top four on the list are all sitting MKs, while the other sitting MK, Mossi Raz, has dropped to 7th and will probably not be returning. The sixth place candidate, Mehereta Baruch-Ron, is Deputy Mayor of Tel Aviv.

Meretz also have a song now.

Gantz almost sounds like a quasi-Fascist, if it weren't for his stance on civil marriage and a two-state solution.

At any rate, holy fuck, OP wasn't kidding when he said practically the whole country was running.

maybe this time we'll get a government in Israel that isn't run by assholes

Internationalist Bastard wrote:maybe this time we'll get a government in Israel that isn't run by assholes

So long as Israel is being bombed, that isn't likely to happen.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:maybe this time we'll get a government in Israel that isn't run by assholes

So long as Israel is being bombed, that isn't likely to happen.

Unfortunately I believe you.

Internationalist Bastard wrote:maybe this time we'll get a government in Israel that isn't run by assholes

Not likely, I'm afraid. Likud's averaging 31 seats in the polls with Hosen L'Yisrael second at 20. Netanyahu will lead yet again.

Mercifully, Bayit Yehudi and National Union (or Tkuma*) have decided to reduce the number of parties running by renewing their alliance. Normally Tkuma is a small subfaction on the Bayit Yehudi list, but because Bayit Yehudi have been weakened by the departure of Bennett and Shaked, and because Tkuma now have a high-profile leader in Bezalel Smotrich, they're basically merging as equals.

Running separately, they would've been nowhere near the threshold, but now they'll probably get a few seats.

*As far as I can tell, National Union used to be an alliance of far-right parties that collapsed a few years ago and now consists solely of Tkuma. I'm not sure if there's actually any difference between the two.

Shrillland wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:maybe this time we'll get a government in Israel that isn't run by assholes

Not likely, I'm afraid. Likud's averaging 31 seats in the polls with Hosen L'Yisrael second at 20. Netanyahu will lead yet again.

Of course it would

Shrillland wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:maybe this time we'll get a government in Israel that isn't run by assholes

Not likely, I'm afraid. Likud's averaging 31 seats in the polls with Hosen L'Yisrael second at 20. Netanyahu will lead yet again.

Thing is despite the corruption and trollish nature of the current government the economy is booming, and things are going pretty well for Israel.
So I guess most Israelis will overlook the other issues because they (understandably) do not want to rock the boat, especially the way the world is going right now.

My preference is for Tzipi Livni and Hatnuah. I've liked her for a long time, and strongly agree with her position on Palestine (ie, get a two-state solution in place and resolve this fucking conflict already).

Orassa wrote:My preference is for Tzipi Livni and Hatnuah. I've liked her for a long time, and strongly agree with her position on Palestine (ie, get a two-state solution in place and resolve this fucking conflict already).

Yeah. Resolving that is not going to happen.
Getting an actual majority of the Israel Parliament and enough Palestinians (not sure how that works as their government is completely dysfunctional and basically in a unresolved civil war) is about as likely as winning a mega lottery, three times in a row.

Novus America wrote:

Orassa wrote:My preference is for Tzipi Livni and Hatnuah. I've liked her for a long time, and strongly agree with her position on Palestine (ie, get a two-state solution in place and resolve this fucking conflict already).

Yeah. Resolving that is not going to happen.
Getting an actual majority of the Israel Parliament and enough Palestinians (not sure how that works as their government is completely dysfunctional and basically in a unresolved civil war) is about as likely as winning a mega lottery, three times in a row.

Besides, Hatunah's below the threshold to even get into the Knesset, much less be part of any government.

Remove Netanhyahu!