La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Costa Fierro]

I'ma level with you chief, regardless of legitimacy, I think anyone is better than Maduro for the people of Venezuela at this point.

Even the guys who will do everything in their power to fight Venezuelan workers?

With a projected unemployment rate 33.3% in December 2018 and expected to reach 44% by the end of this year, there's not much left for the workers who are employed, assuming they're not one of the 40% of Venezuelans in informal work.

But do continue to live in this impression that somehow the workers are benefiting from the current system. It just makes you look even more detached from reality than Maduro is.

[US-SSR]

Even the guys who will do everything in their power to fight Venezuelan workers?

With a projected unemployment rate 33.3% in December 2018 and expected to reach 44% by the end of this year, there's not much left for the workers who are employed, assuming they're not one of the 40% of Venezuelans in informal work.

But do continue to live in this impression that somehow the workers are benefiting from the current system. It just makes you look even more detached from reality than Maduro is.

Just think how they're benefiting from the remittances sent by the millions of Venezuelans working in the countries they fled to to escape Bolivarian repression though.

[Sneudal]

Excuses are no legal basis.

Not "Legal Basis", "Valid Claim". This isn't the US taking Venezuela to court, it's the US making a legitimate claim for intervention. All claims, regardless of validity or legitimacy, are inherently excuses. This scenario just has a more easy-to-legitimize claim.

It really doesn't. And 'claims' are invalid when they hold no legal basis.

Pretty much what a puppet of foreign powers would do. He's only confirming Maduro's accusations by making such moves.

No, hardly.
He is doing the logical thing for someone in his position.
Plus he is desperately trying to save them, probably too late.

Venezuela is probably losing CITGO, when it next defaults CITGO is probably gone as Maduro already used the majority of its shares as collateral.

But that part does not seem to bother you.
Hmm. Guaido trying to save Venezuelan control CITGO bad, Maduro turning it over to foreign companies good...

Why the blind hatred for Guaido?

Maduro’s regime is the one selling out Venezuela, not him.

'Why the blind love for Guaido?' is a much more interesting question. What exactly has he done to earn your love? Is it his self-declared presidency/quasi dictatorship? Or are you just falling for his sweet words?

Pretty much what a puppet of foreign powers would do. He's only confirming Maduro's accusations by making such moves.

No, he's removing Maduro's corrupt cronies from the positions to make changes within the government.

1) He's not, as he holds no power whatsoever.
2) To replace them with what? His own corrupt cronies?

[Valrifell]

'Why the blind love for Guaido?' is a much more interesting question. What exactly has he done to earn your love? Is it his self-declared presidency/quasi dictatorship? Or are you just falling for his sweet words?

Your options are:

Maduro: man who has regularly jailed or exiled opposition leaders, has had several decades to prove his worth, proceeded to sink the Venezuelan economy into one of the worst performing states on the planet through a recession orders of magnitude worse than the Great Depression leading to a near 50% unemployment rate and ludicrous hyperinflation

Guaido: A blank slate, as far as I'm concerned. Hasn't done any of the shit that Maduro's done and doesn't have the track record for ruining national economies.

I don't think "US Imperialism" is a strong enough boogey man to justify keeping Maduro - a man who has objectively and demonstrably failed his people on nearly every front - in power. It'd just harm Venezuelans more.

[Novus America]

Not "Legal Basis", "Valid Claim". This isn't the US taking Venezuela to court, it's the US making a legitimate claim for intervention. All claims, regardless of validity or legitimacy, are inherently excuses. This scenario just has a more easy-to-legitimize claim.

It really doesn't. And 'claims' are invalid when they hold no legal basis.

No, hardly.
He is doing the logical thing for someone in his position.
Plus he is desperately trying to save them, probably too late.

Venezuela is probably losing CITGO, when it next defaults CITGO is probably gone as Maduro already used the majority of its shares as collateral.

But that part does not seem to bother you.
Hmm. Guaido trying to save Venezuelan control CITGO bad, Maduro turning it over to foreign companies good...

Why the blind hatred for Guaido?

Maduro’s regime is the one selling out Venezuela, not him.

'Why the blind love for Guaido?' is a much more interesting question. What exactly has he done to earn your love? Is it his self-declared presidency/quasi dictatorship? Or are you just falling for his sweet words?

No, he's removing Maduro's corrupt cronies from the positions to make changes within the government.

1) He's not, as he holds no power whatsoever.
2) To replace them with what? His own corrupt cronies?

He does have power. Not full power of course, not as much power in Venezuela as the Chavista gang, but he has a significant portion of the population of the Venezuelan population, the US and the OAS behind him. That is some power.

CITGO is incorporated in the US you know. If the US government recognizes the new board, it BECOMES the new board of CITGO. At least until Venezuela’s creditors seize it thanks to Maduro offering it up for collateral.
Again that last part does not seem to bother you. Why?

See the US recognize him gives him power over all Venezuelan assets in the US. I am not sure why you are struggling with that idea.

Whatboutism is not a defense. You failed to answer the question.
Why do you automatically oppose him on literally everything? Even when he is trying to protect Venezuela’s financial interests from Maduro losing them?

And I hardly have a blind love for him.
I just realize supporting him is the best option right now, the best thing for Venezuela and cold hard realpolitik US interests as well.

Plus he is only an interim solution. If the Chavista gang falls new elections can be held to pick the president.
But who else is better to support right now?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Trotsky is a thot. He's a freaking nasty hoe.

What a morally confusing word.

If he breathe, he a TROT

[The of Japan]

Juan Gauido is, by the Venezuelan constitution, interim president. Maduro's usurpation of power should be opposed by everyone and I applaud trump's decision to sanction PVDSA while it supports the usurper.

[Orostan]

Even the guys who will do everything in their power to fight Venezuelan workers?

There comes a point when you have to sacriface ideological purity because it's being implemented by the worst people and hurting everyone.

So, let the neoliberals and imperialists win because 'MUH VUVUZELA"?

Even the guys who will do everything in their power to fight Venezuelan workers?

With a projected unemployment rate 33.3% in December 2018 and expected to reach 44% by the end of this year, there's not much left for the workers who are employed, assuming they're not one of the 40% of Venezuelans in informal work.

But do continue to live in this impression that somehow the workers are benefiting from the current system. It just makes you look even more detached from reality than Maduro is.

>huuuuurr what is social democracy

Chavez and Maduro did a lot for Venezuelan workers before Saudi Arabia and the US made everything go to shit. That isn't to say I like the PSUV, I think they're a bunch of socdems who can't decide what they want.

Juan Gauido is, by the Venezuelan constitution, interim president. Maduro's usurpation of power should be opposed by everyone and I applaud trump's decision to sanction PVDSA while it supports the usurper.

Maduro has been following the Venezuelan constitution. Juan just declared himself president because 'waaah i can't sell everything to america'.

[Kubra]

Maduro has been following the Venezuelan constitution. Juan just declared himself president because 'waaah i can't sell everything to america'.

The venezuelan constitution makes no provisions for any body to take on the legislative powers of the national assembly. Unless, of course, I misread the thing. Could you point me where?

[Orostan]

Maduro has been following the Venezuelan constitution. Juan just declared himself president because 'waaah i can't sell everything to america'.

The venezuelan constitution makes no provisions for any body to take on the legislative powers of the national assembly. Unless, of course, I misread the thing. Could you point me where?

It was well within Maduro’s power to call for a constituent assembly to solve th crisis.

[Kubra]

The venezuelan constitution makes no provisions for any body to take on the legislative powers of the national assembly. Unless, of course, I misread the thing. Could you point me where?

It was well within Maduro’s power to call for a constituent assembly to solve th crisis.

Power, sure. But in terms of law, where in the constitution authorises the transfer of the functions of the national assembly to any other governing body?

[Hydesland]

before Saudi Arabia and the US

Are you talking about them pumping out more oil, causing the price of oil to decline? Are you saying it's their fault that Chavez and Maduro caused the Venezuelan economy to be so catastrophically exposed to the price of a single commodity?

[Frievolk]

before Saudi Arabia and the US

Are you talking about them pumping out more oil, causing the price of oil to decline? Are you saying it's their fault that Chavez and Maduro caused the Venezuelan economy to be so catastrophically exposed to the price of a single commodity?

Its their fault for not playing fair and letting Venezuelan oil dominate the market obviously.

[Sneudal]

'Why the blind love for Guaido?' is a much more interesting question. What exactly has he done to earn your love? Is it his self-declared presidency/quasi dictatorship? Or are you just falling for his sweet words?

Your options are:

Maduro: man who has regularly jailed or exiled opposition leaders, has had several decades to prove his worth, proceeded to sink the Venezuelan economy into one of the worst performing states on the planet through a recession orders of magnitude worse than the Great Depression leading to a near 50% unemployment rate and ludicrous hyperinflation

Guaido: A blank slate, as far as I'm concerned. Hasn't done any of the shit that Maduro's done and doesn't have the track record for ruining national economies.

I don't think "US Imperialism" is a strong enough boogey man to justify keeping Maduro - a man who has objectively and demonstrably failed his people on nearly every front - in power. It'd just harm Venezuelans more.

Yeah, try again later.

Juan Gauido is, by the Venezuelan constitution, interim president. Maduro's usurpation of power should be opposed by everyone and I applaud trump's decision to sanction PVDSA while it supports the usurper.

He's not. The conditions to grant him such title are not met, and thus he's just an ordinary quasi dictator making a grab for power.

It really doesn't. And 'claims' are invalid when they hold no legal basis.




'Why the blind love for Guaido?' is a much more interesting question. What exactly has he done to earn your love? Is it his self-declared presidency/quasi dictatorship? Or are you just falling for his sweet words?



1) He's not, as he holds no power whatsoever.
2) To replace them with what? His own corrupt cronies?

He does have power. Not full power of course, not as much power in Venezuela as the Chavista gang, but he has a significant portion of the population of the Venezuelan population, the US and the OAS behind him. That is some power.

CITGO is incorporated in the US you know. If the US government recognizes the new board, it BECOMES the new board of CITGO. At least until Venezuela’s creditors seize it thanks to Maduro offering it up for collateral.
Again that last part does not seem to bother you. Why?

See the US recognize him gives him power over all Venezuelan assets in the US. I am not sure why you are struggling with that idea.

Whatboutism is not a defense. You failed to answer the question.
Why do you automatically oppose him on literally everything? Even when he is trying to protect Venezuela’s financial interests from Maduro losing them?

And I hardly have a blind love for him.
I just realize supporting him is the best option right now, the best thing for Venezuela and cold hard realpolitik US interests as well.

Plus he is only an interim solution. If the Chavista gang falls new elections can be held to pick the president.
But who else is better to support right now?

1) Sure, he has a little bit of power, just no power within the country he named himself president of.
2) Never said it didn't bother me.
3) Not struggling with it at all.
4) Why? Because he made an unconstitutional grab for power, otherwise known as a dictator. That's why i oppose him. And how are you so sure he's trying to protect Venezuela's financial interests? Oh that's right, you just assume that he's doing that because he says he's doing that. Falling in love are we?
5) There is no best option in a battle between a quasi dictator and a authoritarian leader. But sure, if your aim for U.S. interests then sure, the quasi dictator is the best option indeed, or so it seems.

[Novus America]

before Saudi Arabia and the US

Are you talking about them pumping out more oil, causing the price of oil to decline? Are you saying it's their fault that Chavez and Maduro caused the Venezuelan economy to be so catastrophically exposed to the price of a single commodity?

Besides it is not like oil prices are the only issue. Other petroleum states (Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.) got hit by the oil price fall. But are still doing far better than Venezuela.

Besides Venezuela oil production was falling and Venezuela was running a massive deficit and facing shortages and high inflation BEFORE the oil crash.

Had oil remained higher it would have not saved Venezuela, just slowed its collapse a little.
Revenues would still have fallen as oil production and quality fell.

Excess supply of fake currency, currency and price controls still would have caused shortages.

[Novus America]

Your options are:

Maduro: man who has regularly jailed or exiled opposition leaders, has had several decades to prove his worth, proceeded to sink the Venezuelan economy into one of the worst performing states on the planet through a recession orders of magnitude worse than the Great Depression leading to a near 50% unemployment rate and ludicrous hyperinflation

Guaido: A blank slate, as far as I'm concerned. Hasn't done any of the shit that Maduro's done and doesn't have the track record for ruining national economies.

I don't think "US Imperialism" is a strong enough boogey man to justify keeping Maduro - a man who has objectively and demonstrably failed his people on nearly every front - in power. It'd just harm Venezuelans more.

Yeah, try again later.

Juan Gauido is, by the Venezuelan constitution, interim president. Maduro's usurpation of power should be opposed by everyone and I applaud trump's decision to sanction PVDSA while it supports the usurper.

He's not. The conditions to grant him such title are not met, and thus he's just an ordinary quasi dictator making a grab for power.

He does have power. Not full power of course, not as much power in Venezuela as the Chavista gang, but he has a significant portion of the population of the Venezuelan population, the US and the OAS behind him. That is some power.

CITGO is incorporated in the US you know. If the US government recognizes the new board, it BECOMES the new board of CITGO. At least until Venezuela’s creditors seize it thanks to Maduro offering it up for collateral.
Again that last part does not seem to bother you. Why?

See the US recognize him gives him power over all Venezuelan assets in the US. I am not sure why you are struggling with that idea.

Whatboutism is not a defense. You failed to answer the question.
Why do you automatically oppose him on literally everything? Even when he is trying to protect Venezuela’s financial interests from Maduro losing them?

And I hardly have a blind love for him.
I just realize supporting him is the best option right now, the best thing for Venezuela and cold hard realpolitik US interests as well.

Plus he is only an interim solution. If the Chavista gang falls new elections can be held to pick the president.
But who else is better to support right now?

1) Sure, he has a little bit of power, just no power within the country he named himself president of.
2) Never said it didn't bother me.
3) Not struggling with it at all.
4) Why? Because he made an unconstitutional grab for power, otherwise known as a dictator. That's why i oppose him. And how are you so sure he's trying to protect Venezuela's financial interests? Oh that's right, you just assume that he's doing that because he says he's doing that. Falling in love are we?
5) There is no best option in a battle between a quasi dictator and a authoritarian leader. But sure, if your aim for U.S. interests then sure, the quasi dictator is the best option indeed, or so it seems.

Control of Venezuelan assets in the US gives him power in Venezuela as the US is where Venezuela gets its money from.

Well it is clear Guaido trying to save PDVSA from losing its assets is better for it than Maduro leveraging its assets in exchange for debt Venezuela cannot repay.
How can you dispute that?

Maduro’s gang is destroying the country, so really almost anything else is better.

There is always a better option between two different choices, and here he clearly is better.
Not ideal of course. But better.

Also not choosing is not an option. Falling to support Guaido is de facto supporting Maduro.

And obviously as an American I want to do what is best for US interests.
Nothing wrong with that. The US should protect its interests.
But we should also not advance our interests without considering other things.
Here what is best for the US and Venezuela are the same.

[Valrifell]

So, let the neoliberals and imperialists win because 'MUH VUVUZELA"?

The 'MUH VUVUZELA" meme only works if people are accusing it of actually Socialist. I don't hold that viewpoint, I don't think it's anything more than serving Maduro's needs at the moment, which, you know, is bad.

If you're sacrificing the people's wellbeing for ideological purity you really fucked up somewhere. Just tossing out all these assumptions on what Guaido would be if he held on to power (which, I remind, it's not even clear that he is going to try and hold on to power) without consideration to the concrete examples of the regime under Maduro, how it's failed, and how it's continuing to fail.

[Sneudal]

Yeah, try again later.



He's not. The conditions to grant him such title are not met, and thus he's just an ordinary quasi dictator making a grab for power.



1) Sure, he has a little bit of power, just no power within the country he named himself president of.
2) Never said it didn't bother me.
3) Not struggling with it at all.
4) Why? Because he made an unconstitutional grab for power, otherwise known as a dictator. That's why i oppose him. And how are you so sure he's trying to protect Venezuela's financial interests? Oh that's right, you just assume that he's doing that because he says he's doing that. Falling in love are we?
5) There is no best option in a battle between a quasi dictator and a authoritarian leader. But sure, if your aim for U.S. interests then sure, the quasi dictator is the best option indeed, or so it seems.

Control of Venezuelan assets in the US gives him power in Venezuela as the US is where Venezuela gets its money from.

Well it is clear Guaido trying to save PDVSA from losing its assets is better for it than Maduro leveraging its assets in exchange for debt Venezuela cannot repay.
How can you dispute that?

Maduro’s gang is destroying the country, so really almost anything else is better.

There is always a better option between two different choices, and here he clearly is better.
Not ideal of course. But better.

Also not choosing is not an option. Falling to support Guaido is de facto supporting Maduro.

And obviously as an American I want to do what is best for US interests.
Nothing wrong with that. The US should protect its interests.
But we should also not advance our interests without considering other things.
Here what is best for the US and Venezuela are the same.

1) Hardly.
2) Again, who says he's saving it? I mean, aside from him and his followers.
3) We know, but no, not almost anything is better. A economy can be rebuild in a matter of years. A possible dictator can last for decades, not to mention the instability that follows. Unlike you, who's apperantly all too fixed on U.S. interests, my concerns are more with Venezuela itself.
4) Not proven by a bit. But then again, my concerns are with Venezuela, not the U.S.
5) Wrong.
6) Thank you for admitting your bias in the matter. It's been a pleasure talking to you, but i'm afraid there's nothing else to discuss after this since your main interests lie with the U.S., as opposed to Venezuela like it should be. Also yes, there is something wrong with that.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Control of Venezuelan assets in the US gives him power in Venezuela as the US is where Venezuela gets its money from.

Well it is clear Guaido trying to save PDVSA from losing its assets is better for it than Maduro leveraging its assets in exchange for debt Venezuela cannot repay.
How can you dispute that?

Maduro’s gang is destroying the country, so really almost anything else is better.

There is always a better option between two different choices, and here he clearly is better.
Not ideal of course. But better.

Also not choosing is not an option. Falling to support Guaido is de facto supporting Maduro.

And obviously as an American I want to do what is best for US interests.
Nothing wrong with that. The US should protect its interests.
But we should also not advance our interests without considering other things.
Here what is best for the US and Venezuela are the same.

1) Hardly.
2) Again, who says he's saving it? I mean, aside from him and his followers.
3) We know, but no, not almost anything is better. A economy can be rebuild in a matter of years. A possible dictator can last for decades, not to mention the instability that follows. Unlike you, who's apperantly all too fixed on U.S. interests, my concerns are more with Venezuela itself.
4) Not proven by a bit. But then again, my concerns are with Venezuela, not the U.S.
5) Wrong.
6) Thank you for admitting your bias in the matter. It's been a pleasure talking to you, but i'm afraid there's nothing else to discuss after this since your main interests lie with the U.S., as opposed to Venezuela like it should be. Also yes, there is something wrong with that.

Maduro ain’t going to last long with assassination attempts and rebellious forces in the state. I just hope this coup ends up being as little trouble to the people as possible.

[Valrifell]

Yeah, try again later.

Not quite sure what that means, but it's later.

[Novus America]

Control of Venezuelan assets in the US gives him power in Venezuela as the US is where Venezuela gets its money from.

Well it is clear Guaido trying to save PDVSA from losing its assets is better for it than Maduro leveraging its assets in exchange for debt Venezuela cannot repay.
How can you dispute that?

Maduro’s gang is destroying the country, so really almost anything else is better.

There is always a better option between two different choices, and here he clearly is better.
Not ideal of course. But better.

Also not choosing is not an option. Falling to support Guaido is de facto supporting Maduro.

And obviously as an American I want to do what is best for US interests.
Nothing wrong with that. The US should protect its interests.
But we should also not advance our interests without considering other things.
Here what is best for the US and Venezuela are the same.

1) Hardly.
2) Again, who says he's saving it? I mean, aside from him and his followers.
3) We know, but no, not almost anything is better. A economy can be rebuild in a matter of years. A possible dictator can last for decades, not to mention the instability that follows. Unlike you, who's apperantly all too fixed on U.S. interests, my concerns are more with Venezuela itself.
4) Not proven by a bit. But then again, my concerns are with Venezuela, not the U.S.
5) Wrong.
6) Thank you for admitting your bias in the matter. It's been a pleasure talking to you, but i'm afraid there's nothing else to discuss after this since your main interests lie with the U.S., as opposed to Venezuela like it should be. Also yes, there is something wrong with that.

Actually yes.
The US is the biggest paying customer of Venezuela oil. So that matters. If you control a big source of money you have power from it.

We do not know that Guaido will refuse to cede power. We have no reason to believe he will. It is unlikely he has the support to actually become a dictator anyways.
We do however KNOW the Maduro gang will not willing cede power.

And even so, a more competent authoritarian leader is still superior.
So yes it is proven.

And again if Maduro’s gang stays on its current path PDVSA is losing a lot of assets.
At least Guaido is trying to do something different.

And yes, doing nothing is just allowing the current mess to continue.
The status quo is no longer an option. Change is needed.

And how is just allowing the Maduro gang to pillage Venezuela without consequence actually good for Venezuela? You have yet to answer that.

Failing to punish the Maduro gang for their crimes is allowing them to commit more.

And of course I am biased. We all are.
I think your anti Americanism might be biasing you as well.

And my main interests of course lie with the US, as my main interests lie with my own people.
But that does not mean I cannot support what is best for another people as well.
Good for the US and good for Venezuela are not mutually exclusive here.

[Sneudal]

1) Hardly.
2) Again, who says he's saving it? I mean, aside from him and his followers.
3) We know, but no, not almost anything is better. A economy can be rebuild in a matter of years. A possible dictator can last for decades, not to mention the instability that follows. Unlike you, who's apperantly all too fixed on U.S. interests, my concerns are more with Venezuela itself.
4) Not proven by a bit. But then again, my concerns are with Venezuela, not the U.S.
5) Wrong.
6) Thank you for admitting your bias in the matter. It's been a pleasure talking to you, but i'm afraid there's nothing else to discuss after this since your main interests lie with the U.S., as opposed to Venezuela like it should be. Also yes, there is something wrong with that.

Maduro ain’t going to last long with assassination attempts and rebellious forces in the state. I just hope this coup ends up being as little trouble to the people as possible.

Oh don't get me wrong, i'm all in favor of removing Maduro, yet i'm not so much in favor of replacing him with some quasi-dictator.

Yeah, try again later.

Not quite sure what that means, but it's later.

Soo… Try again?

[And of course I am biased. We all are.

Sure you are, but no, not all are.

[Valrifell]

Soo… Try again?

Maduro is a shitty leader and any change would be good change, prove me wrong.

[Novus America]

Maduro ain’t going to last long with assassination attempts and rebellious forces in the state. I just hope this coup ends up being as little trouble to the people as possible.

Oh don't get me wrong, i'm all in favor of removing Maduro, yet i'm not so much in favor of replacing him with some quasi-dictator.

Not quite sure what that means, but it's later.

Soo… Try again?

[And of course I am biased. We all are.

Sure you are, but no, not all are.

We all are biased, by default. We see things through the flawed lens of our identity and experiences. We cannot possibly perceive things free of bias. So it is important we acknowledge rather than deny our biases. Our brains do not work like that.

So what are you proposing to to to get rid of Maduro then? What is your alternative?

[Orostan]

It was well within Maduro’s power to call for a constituent assembly to solve th crisis.

Power, sure. But in terms of law, where in the constitution authorises the transfer of the functions of the national assembly to any other governing body?

For an emergency. If the National Assembly is doing everything it can to destroy the country Maduro was authorized to suspend it and install a new body.

Are you talking about them pumping out more oil, causing the price of oil to decline? Are you saying it's their fault that Chavez and Maduro caused the Venezuelan economy to be so catastrophically exposed to the price of a single commodity?

Besides it is not like oil prices are the only issue. Other petroleum states (Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.) got hit by the oil price fall. But are still doing far better than Venezuela.

Besides Venezuela oil production was falling and Venezuela was running a massive deficit and facing shortages and high inflation BEFORE the oil crash.

Had oil remained higher it would have not saved Venezuela, just slowed its collapse a little.
Revenues would still have fallen as oil production and quality fell.

Excess supply of fake currency, currency and price controls still would have caused shortages.

Venezuelan oil production began falling right around when the oil price began falling. Inflation began rising just around when the oil price started falling as well. The US sanctions on the country made the problem worse. Price controls in Venezuela only ‘cause’ shortages because capitalists want to be able to charge poor people more for food but can’t, so they sell on the black market and cause an artificial shortage if they can. Only products that are heavily cartelized in Venezuela are in shortage or products produced overseas. There is a reason that toilet paper might be in shortage but baby wipes are not.

But I think we both agree that Venezuela should have diversified its economy.

before Saudi Arabia and the US

Are you talking about them pumping out more oil, causing the price of oil to decline? Are you saying it's their fault that Chavez and Maduro caused the Venezuelan economy to be so catastrophically exposed to the price of a single commodity?

It’s the PSUV’s fault they haven’t switched to a planned economy and industrialized Venezuela. It is the USA and Saudi Arabia’s fault this crisis is so bad.