La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Shrillland]

Chile recognises Guaido as the new President

Casado (PP) and Abascal (Vox) of Spain also called for their government to recognise Guaido as the new President. News from the EU so far very slow or ambiguous.

Mexico with their new left-wing government recognise Maduro as the legitimate President.
https://twitter.com/AFPespanol/status/1 ... 4344434695

However Mexico is unlikely to enter any conflict.

Well, the EU will almost certainly side with Guaido. I imagine that by the top of the next hour, Britain, France, and Germany will all make their formal recognitions.

[Frievolk]

Chile recognises Guaido as the new President

Casado (PP) and Abascal (Vox) of Spain also called for their government to recognise Guaido as the new President. News from the EU so far very slow or ambiguous.

Mexico with their new left-wing government recognise Maduro as the legitimate President.
https://twitter.com/AFPespanol/status/1 ... 4344434695

However Mexico is unlikely to enter any conflict.

So how many American countries are left yet? And it hasn't even been five hours yet.

[Trumptonium1]

Donald Trump says "all options are on the table" in regards to Venezuela. "US remains resolute in promoting a peaceful transition to democracy" and "Everything is on the table, all options" when asked about naval blocade and other military actions ... "If they choose the route of violence...we have a host of options" to take against Nicolas Maduro and his regime and they'll "have their days counted"

[Andsed]

Well, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, and the OAS have now recognised Guaido as president. Unfortunately, the other side is mobilising as well. Bolivia and Ecuador have decried the move as a coup, and Xi and Putin are supposedly sending messages recognising Maduro as the rightful president. Maybe I was too optimistic in thinking that a proxy war wasn't imminent.

I doubt Russia and China are willing to go to war with the US and NATO over Venezuela.

[Trumptonium1]

Chile recognises Guaido as the new President

Casado (PP) and Abascal (Vox) of Spain also called for their government to recognise Guaido as the new President. News from the EU so far very slow or ambiguous.

Mexico with their new left-wing government recognise Maduro as the legitimate President.
https://twitter.com/AFPespanol/status/1 ... 4344434695

However Mexico is unlikely to enter any conflict.

So how many American countries are left yet? And it hasn't even been five hours yet.

So far all the big ones are gone

Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Canada, US all for Guaido
Mexico, Bolivia for Maduro

and add Peru to that Guaido list while I was typing this

[Shrillland]

Well, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, and the OAS have now recognised Guaido as president. Unfortunately, the other side is mobilising as well. Bolivia and Ecuador have decried the move as a coup, and Xi and Putin are supposedly sending messages recognising Maduro as the rightful president. Maybe I was too optimistic in thinking that a proxy war wasn't imminent.

I doubt Russia and China are willing to go to war with the US and NATO over Venezuela.

Oh, I don't mean a full-fledged nuclear conflict, I just mean something like Vietnam or Angola.

[Frievolk]

So how many American countries are left yet? And it hasn't even been five hours yet.

So far all the big ones are gone

Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Canada, US all for Guaido
Mexico, Bolivia for Maduro

and add Peru to that Guaido list while I was typing this

Has Mexico thrown her lot or just remained silent like Cuba probably will?

[Kavagrad]

Mexico with their new left-wing government recognise Maduro as the legitimate President.
https://twitter.com/AFPespanol/status/1 ... 4344434695

However Mexico is unlikely to enter any conflict.

AMLO invades Texas when

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

It's about damn time someone brought some common sense leadership to that country. Now if only someone could bring common sense leadership to this one (the US)...

I support President Trump and the OAS declaring the opposition as the government of Venezuela.
I Proudly support President Trump just as you proudly oppose President Trump.

[Andsed]

I doubt Russia and China are willing to go to war with the US and NATO over Venezuela.

Oh, I don't mean a full-fledged nuclear conflict, I just mean something like Vietnam or Angola.

Oh well even then due to the US naval power China and Russia will have a very hard time getting supplies and men to South America meaning I think any war would be quick hopefully.

[Arlye Austros]

For the people asking how does this work: The National Assembly (Congress, NA) has been blocked by the Presidency since 2016 with an alliance with the Judiciary and since 2017 an ad hoc legislature sponsored by Maduro, the Constituent National Assembly (ANC). Last May, elections were "called" by the ANC and carried out for the presidency and Governorship. Maduro and his party won by a landslide since the opposition called to abstain, saying the process was rigged already. Days afterwards, the company supplying the electronic devices to cast votes, Smartmatic, was involved in allegations that the devices had been tampered with. So after this the NA declared Maduro to have abandoned his role as President and declared afterwards that on January 10th (the day of investiture for Maduro) he would effectively usurp the office.

The Constitution establishes (article 266 I think) that upon the effective lack of a president due to, among others, illegitimate usurpation, the president of the NA would take the office and call to elections. So this is what has happened.

Now, Is Venezuela a democracy? The Government has been saying with pride that they are he most democratic system in the world, since there have been many elections, and that Maduro's government is the most legitimate in the region as he was elected with a 66% support (probably the lowest number they got). However the difference between a democracy and an autocracy is the lack of legitimate political parties against the government. Of course, you can't count parties that declare to be oppossition but are clumpsy erratic due to the direct control the government has over them, this is the case of the 80s Nicaragua I believe.

In the case of Venezuela, we do have a number of opossition parties that are actively against the government. However dozens of declarations and policies over the years made by leaders of Chavism, from Chavez himself to current leaders like Diosdado Cabello, seem to point out that the Government is at least willing and eager to go after opposition leaders. This means that opposing parties are at risk of having their members imprisoned, censored, deported out of the country or imprisoned without uirther proof, or even killed. This has already happened in venezuela in several instances.

-Leopoldo Lopez was arrested in 2014 for calling to protest against the government. Later on a number of officers who prosecuted Lopez would accept, once out of Venezuela, that the process was against due process rules.
-Fernando Albán was a political leader of the Primero Justicia party (also formed by Lopez) who, while serving as an officer in the Communal Council of Caracas was arrested by the SEBIN (Bolivarian Intelligence Service). Albán later on died in still unclear circumstances, having fallen from a tenth floor. Evidence seems to point to Alban being tortured and threatened to be tossed off the window (which has its opening limited), while official media pointed out that Alban was being investigated for child abuse and thus he chose to kill himself. Officers said Alban requested to go to the bathroom, and while being left alone he ran from the bathroom to said window in the 10th floor.

-Antonio Ledezma was the Mayor of Caracas in 2015 when he was detained by members of the SEBIN in his office. It was later revealed to the public opinion, including Ledezma's attourney, that he was accussed of planning a coup against Maduro. He was taken to the Ramo Verde military prison and later on granted domiciliary arrest the following year. In August 2017 he was abducted by the SEBIN and returned to his residence four days later. He left the country two weeks later and has been in exile ever since.

-Henry Ramos Allup was the first oppossition president of the AN after the 2015 elections. SEBIN tried to have him detained during his tenure, but desisted as Allup reminded them he had parliamentary immunity.

-Juan Requesens is a representative of the AN member of the Primero Justicia party. He was detained in august 2018 accused of the attempt on Maduro's life. His immunity was requested to be removed to the ANC, which agreed and the SEBIN proceeded. He admitted his guilt, along with leader Julio Borges's, in a video presented by the Minister of Communications. This video does not give any details on any attempt on Maduro's life. opoosition leaders argue Requesens was drugged and tortured to get such confesion.

-Lorent Saleh is an NGO leader oposing Venezuela's withdrawal from the Panamerican Human Rights System. In 2014 he was studying in Colombia, and was detained by Colombian Migration forces to be later on deported to Venezuela. He was detained and accused of falsifying documents to destabilize the country, training paramilitaries in Colombia to attack Venezuela. Some of these allegations and supposed proofs were presented in official media by PSUV leaders, but do not appear in the court files. He and a number of students, including Gerardo Carrero, were (and are) held in the SEBIN HQ underground detention units, known as "La Tumba" (The Tomb). Here, the Foro penal Venezolano NGO claims, they are subjected to torture in the form of sleep and space depravation, food depravation, natural light depravation and denied any contact with the outside world and medical care. He was banished (a punishment that does not exist in Venezuelan law) in october 2018, supposedly to avoid his suicide, and arrived in Madrid.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

VUVUZELA NOT DEMOCRATIC HURR DURR COZ COZ IT'S SOCCIE! On a less strawman-y note, Venezuela isn't autocratic. Saying so is like saying that Pinochet should've taken over Allende's government despite it being democratically elected and replaced by a dictatorship. And we all know how that went. Just ask the people who were thrown off helicopters or shot in stadiums. The Opposition has actually gotten a meaningful amount of votes in past Venezuelan elections. To call it not democratic is to question the meaning of democracy itself, which we should. I agree that Venezuela isn't democratic by my own meaning of the term, but to accept my own meaning is to accept that the USA, the UK and several other 'democratic' nations are also not democratic. By the regular meaning of democracy, Venezuela is democratic. So stop your rabid brainwashed anti-'communism' (despite Venezuela not being communist or socialist; to call it such is to agree that Gorbachev was also both).

Nice puppet Orostan

This isn't Orostan. This is the guy who has puppets that you messaged "IT'S HAMMER TIME" to and then promptly asked you what you were talking about. The Third French Commune was my puppet, if you didn't realise this already. Also, Orostan sounds like a name for a country full of orangutans. Just sayin'.

[Wohlstantia]

So far all the big ones are gone

Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Canada, US all for Guaido
Mexico, Bolivia for Maduro

and add Peru to that Guaido list while I was typing this

Has Mexico thrown her lot or just remained silent like Cuba probably will?

To quote this CBC article;

A spokesman for Mexico's foreign ministry said Mexico does not plan to change its policy on Venezuela "for the time being."

[Trumptonium1]

So far all the big ones are gone

Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Canada, US all for Guaido
Mexico, Bolivia for Maduro

and add Peru to that Guaido list while I was typing this

Has Mexico thrown her lot or just remained silent like Cuba probably will?

Mexico has a new left-wing President who has been vocally supportive of Venezuela and Maduro for a long time, however, Obrador also wants to reduce defence spending and the size of the military (old-style liberal left) so his opinion on this matter can be acceptably dismissed.

[Frievolk]

Has Mexico thrown her lot or just remained silent like Cuba probably will?

To quote this CBC article;

A spokesman for Mexico's foreign ministry said Mexico does not plan to change its policy on Venezuela "for the time being."

So like most others, "we'll wait and see if this opposition is legit or just a phase". Hm, not very surprising, if a bit of a shame.

[Chan Island]

Trawling through the various news stories about this story...

You know it really is over for Maduro when even members of the national guard revolt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/worl ... ule=inline

And of course, these soldiers are probably not the only ones willing to go against the dictator.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

God-Emperor Bolsonaro calls Maduro "a cancer" in a video message and says he will do "everything I can to restore freedom to Venezuela" and "re-establish order and democracy" after his ministers meet with Venezuelan opposition leaders.

>Freedom
>Literally says he'll punish people for being reds and calls for an assault on LGBT rights.

Look, even Russia and Assad are less authoritarian.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

Remember 9/11 folks. Remember 9/11.

(And no, not the terrorist attack, I mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chil ... 7%C3%A9tat)

We're having a repeat of 9/11 in Venezuela. Please learn from your mistakes and realise we may have a second Pinochet on our hands.

[Puldania]

VIVE EL NUEVO PRESIDENTE

This is great news.

[Corrian]

Things are developing quickly...

[Orostan]

Also, Orostan sounds like a name for a country full of orangutans. Just sayin'.

[Trumptonium1]

God-Emperor Bolsonaro calls Maduro "a cancer" in a video message and says he will do "everything I can to restore freedom to Venezuela" and "re-establish order and democracy" after his ministers meet with Venezuelan opposition leaders.

>Freedom
>Literally says he'll punish people for being reds and calls for an assault on LGBT rights.

Look, even Russia and Assad are less authoritarian.

Punishing people for being socio-communists is a good thing.

As for "assault on LGBT rights" you are correct I have never seen a man more homophobic than this guy

[Shrillland]

Remember 9/11 folks. Remember 9/11.

(And no, not the terrorist attack, I mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chil ... 7%C3%A9tat)

We're having a repeat of 9/11 in Venezuela. Please learn from your mistakes and realise we may have a second Pinochet on our hands.

Well, Guaido is no right-wing reactionary from what I understand. Unless Bolsonaro installs a puppet government, which would lead to an even bigger set of problems, Venezuelan democracy still has a decent chance or survival.

[Hammer Britannia]

Remember 9/11 folks. Remember 9/11.

(And no, not the terrorist attack, I mean this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chil ... 7%C3%A9tat)

We're having a repeat of 9/11 in Venezuela. Please learn from your mistakes and realise we may have a second Pinochet on our hands.

lmao, what?

The opposition is the Obama of Venezuela

That's like saying Trump's sudden and violent overthrow by Hillary Clinton will lead to Saddam Hussein in America

[Andsed]

Trawling through the various news stories about this story...

You know it really is over for Maduro when even members of the national guard revolt.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/worl ... ule=inline

And of course, these soldiers are probably not the only ones willing to go against the dictator.

Damm I think this is the end for Maduro.