La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Andsed]

Well it looks like civil war is looming which seeing as trump has stated he supported the opposition I think we can safely assume who will win that fight. Let’s just hope things are handled correctly with the new government being able to bring order and justice to Venezuela where the current government has failed.

[Aboveland]

He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

Suspending congress and creating a constitutient assembly entirely formed of his supporters, where the opposition would surely lose, and essentially giving him full power over the nation, is not democratic.

Neither is winning an election with a miserly voter turnout because the opposition voters knew that Maduro would win regardless, through fraud.

[Thermodolia]

Venezuela isn’t Democratic. That’s pretty plainly noted. They aren’t not democratic because of socialism but because of the fact that the de facto president illegali suspended congress and tried to create a new constitution that would benefit him

He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

Suspended a legislature because they don’t agree with you is highly undemocratic. The opposition didn’t contest the elections because they didn’t want to give the constituent assembly legitimacy.

Face it Maduro is a highly undemocratic dictator

[Shrillland]

looks at Chile
looks at all the countries were democratic socialists got in power.

All in all probably the best possible outcome.

>40% poverty is good
>poor people eating is bad

Thermy while I agree with your post the eternal revolution has never been democratic, lol.

It has though.

Venezuela isn’t Democratic. That’s pretty plainly noted. They aren’t not democratic because of socialism but because of the fact that the de facto president illegali suspended congress and tried to create a new constitution that would benefit him

He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

No, they didn't contest the elections because they were rigged, something that his predecessor Hugo Chavez never resorted to. The presidential vote last year was a sham, and it's good that Guaido's getting recognition. He's a social democrat from the Popular Will party, he'll keep progress going while rolling back the excesses caused by Chavismist Communism.

And for the record, I actually supported Chavez for a long time before he started attacking opposition groups and refusing to diversify the economy.

[Hammer Britannia]

"It has though' lol, I'm having a lol attack,

nob an argumenb xxddd

Neither was yours but OK

[Frievolk]

Well it looks like civil war is looming which seeing as trump has stated he supported the opposition I think we can safely assume who will win that fight. Let’s just hope things are handled correctly with the new government being able to bring order and justice to Venezuela where the current government has failed.

It appears more countries are following through by recognizing the opposition's legitimacy over that of Maduro. Canada and Brasil have already made a commitment. I wonder if more South Americans will continue before Europe says anything.

[Trumptonium1]

Bolsonaro announced he will "keep socialism in check in Latin America" while talking in Davos.

https://twitter.com/PolandDaily/status/ ... 0137259010

[Wohlstantia]

Suspended a legislature because they don’t agree with you is highly undemocratic. The opposition didn’t contest the elections because they didn’t want to give the constituent assembly legitimacy.

Face it Maduro is a highly undemocratic dictator

Changing the rules to suit your own political aims is the highest form of democratic rule, no idea what you're going on about.
I hope the people of Venezuela endure this transition safely.

[Andsed]

Well it looks like civil war is looming which seeing as trump has stated he supported the opposition I think we can safely assume who will win that fight. Let’s just hope things are handled correctly with the new government being able to bring order and justice to Venezuela where the current government has failed.

It appears more countries are following through by recognizing the opposition's legitimacy over that of Maduro. Canada and Brasil have already made a commitment. I wonder if more South Americans will continue before Europe says anything.

Yeah I think we can safely assume in the case of civil war Maduro would lose since I doubt any nation is willing to fight the US and her allies over Venezuela. I think the main concern is the transfer of power and not messing it up like we did over in the Middle East.

[Shrillland]

Suspended a legislature because they don’t agree with you is highly undemocratic. The opposition didn’t contest the elections because they didn’t want to give the constituent assembly legitimacy.

Face it Maduro is a highly undemocratic dictator

Changing the rules to suit your own political aims is the highest form of democratic rule, no idea what you're going on about.
I hope the people of Venezuela endure this transition safely.

Well, with the entirety of the Western World now throwing their weight behind Guaido, and Brazil preparing to intervene(for good or ill, I don't trust Bolsonaro all that much), it'll likely be a short war. Russia and China won't dare try to save Maduro unless ALBA rises up to do so.

[Orostan]

He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

Suspending congress and creating a constitutient assembly entirely formed of his supporters, where the opposition would surely lose, and essentially giving him full power over the nation, is not democratic.

Neither is winning an election with a miserly voter turnout because the opposition voters knew that Maduro would win regardless, through fraud.

There is no evidence of any fraud of any sort. The opposition didn’t even put up a fight for the assembly because they are not popular.

>40% poverty is good
>poor people eating is bad


It has though.



He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

No, they didn't contest the elections because they were rigged, something that his predecessor Hugo Chavez never resorted to. The presidential vote last year was a sham, and it's good that Guaido's getting recognition. He's a social democrat from the Popular Will party, he'll keep progress going while rolling back the excesses caused by Chavismist Communism.

And for the record, I actually supported Chavez for a long time before he started attacking opposition groups and refusing to diversify the economy.

Chavez and Maduro never ‘attacked’ opposition groups, or at least not as much as they should have. There is no evidence these elections were rigged. All the evidence we do have shows us that:
1) Maduro has not suppressed the opposition
2) media in Venezuela is not censored
3) the opposition refused to contest the assembly elections because they knew they wouldn’t win.

He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

Suspended a legislature because they don’t agree with you is highly undemocratic. The opposition didn’t contest the elections because they didn’t want to give the constituent assembly legitimacy.

Face it Maduro is a highly undemocratic dictator

Suspending a legislature because they are trying to sabotage the government and paralyze it during a time of crisis is the only option. Maduro made an assembly and the opposition chose not to contest the election because they would have lost! They are not popular in Venezuela.

[Trumptonium1]

Bolsonaro hints at economic aid to Venezuela when/if it transitions to "social peace" and democracy.

[Novus America]

He suspended congress because they were being obstructionist and attempting to sabotage anything good anyone did. He then created a constituent assembly because he knew the parliament wouldn't go for new elections that would certainly oust the opposition. The opposition did not contest the assembly elections because they'd loose, giving Maduro the assembly in its entirety.

Suspending congress and creating a constitutient assembly entirely formed of his supporters, where the opposition would surely lose, and essentially giving him full power over the nation, is not democratic.

Neither is winning an election with a miserly voter turnout because the opposition voters knew that Maduro would win regardless, through fraud.

Also the most popular opposition candidates were banned from running and/or imprisoned.

But arguing with a Stalinist about democracy is an exercise in futility.

[Shrillland]

snip

Shutting down RCTV on iffy technicalities and eliminating the biggest voice against PSUV wasn't censorship? In any other country, this would've been seen as a power grab.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

"It has though' lol, I'm having a lol attack,

nob an argumenb xxddd

lol, I have heard and seen on the TV News before Maduro say, when will the opposition learn the Revolution is here to stay, just like the eternal revolution of Cuba, yes Cuba too.

[Frievolk]

Suspending congress and creating a constitutient assembly entirely formed of his supporters, where the opposition would surely lose, and essentially giving him full power over the nation, is not democratic.

Neither is winning an election with a miserly voter turnout because the opposition voters knew that Maduro would win regardless, through fraud.

Also the most popular opposition candidates were banned from running and/or imprisoned.

But arguing with a Stalinist about democracy is an exercise in futility.

More like arguing with a person who unironically thinks "he didn't attack his opposition, at least not as much as he should have" is an exercise in futility. Though, Stalinists tend to have that mindset.

[Orostan]

Suspending congress and creating a constitutient assembly entirely formed of his supporters, where the opposition would surely lose, and essentially giving him full power over the nation, is not democratic.

Neither is winning an election with a miserly voter turnout because the opposition voters knew that Maduro would win regardless, through fraud.

Also the most popular opposition candidates were banned from running and/or imprisoned.

But arguing with a Stalinist about democracy is an exercise in futility.

Only a few members of the opposition were banned from running, and even less imprisoned. These people were and are working to overthrow the government. Despite that, the most prominent guy banned from running was convicted on corruption charges and not any sort of conspiracy.

[Shrillland]

Well, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, and the OAS have now recognised Guaido as president. Unfortunately, the other side is mobilising as well. Bolivia and Ecuador have decried the move as a coup, and Xi and Putin are supposedly sending messages recognising Maduro as the rightful president. Maybe I was too optimistic in thinking that a proxy war wasn't imminent.

[Novus America]

Changing the rules to suit your own political aims is the highest form of democratic rule, no idea what you're going on about.
I hope the people of Venezuela endure this transition safely.

Well, with the entirety of the Western World now throwing their weight behind Guaido, and Brazil preparing to intervene(for good or ill, I don't trust Bolsonaro all that much), it'll likely be a short war. Russia and China won't dare try to save Maduro unless ALBA rises up to do so.

ALBA is effectively dead. It barely functions and is not a credible military force.
Most members just wanted cheap oil.
No government in South America is actually going to fight a war to defend Maduro.

Even Cuba will not be too openly involved. They will continue to send some military forces to prop up the regime but they are not going to war.

China and Russia will dump Maduro as soon as it is clear he is going down. But that is not clear yet. Maduro does have an amazing ability to survive despite literally worst economic peacetime economic performance in recent history. Even Japan during WWII did better economically than Maduro has. Nuclear weapons do less economic damage than Chavismo.

But still he has survived. So he might still survive this.
Unfortunately the opposition tends to retreat when facing any real resistance.
They may do so again.

Hopefully Maduro finally goes down and the new leadership refuses to repay Chinese and Russian loans.
It would be good to see China and Russia get burned for their support for Maduro.

But this is why China and Russia will desperately try to make nice with the opposition if it is clear Maduro is done.

[United States of Natan]

It's about damn time someone brought some common sense leadership to that country. Now if only someone could bring common sense leadership to this one (the US)...

[Trumptonium1]

Chile recognises Guaido as the new President

Casado (PP) and Abascal (Vox) of Spain also called for their government to recognise Guaido as the new President. News from the EU so far very slow or ambiguous.

Mexico with their new left-wing government recognise Maduro as the legitimate President.
https://twitter.com/AFPespanol/status/1 ... 4344434695

However Mexico is unlikely to enter any conflict.

[Shrillland]

Well, with the entirety of the Western World now throwing their weight behind Guaido, and Brazil preparing to intervene(for good or ill, I don't trust Bolsonaro all that much), it'll likely be a short war. Russia and China won't dare try to save Maduro unless ALBA rises up to do so.

ALBA is effectively dead. It barely functions and is not a credible military force.
Most members just wanted cheap oil.
No government in South America is actually going to fight a war to defend Maduro.

Even Cuba will not be too openly involved. They will continue to send some military forces to prop up the regime but they are not going to war.

China and Russia will dump Maduro as soon as it is clear he is going down. But that is not clear yet. Maduro does have an amazing ability to survive despite literally worst economic peacetime economic performance in recent history. Even Japan during WWII did better economically than Maduro has. Nuclear weapons do less economic damage than Chavismo.

But still he has survived. So he might still survive this.
Unfortunately the opposition tends to retreat when facing any real resistance.
They may do so again.

Hopefully Maduro finally goes down and the new leadership refuses to repay Chinese and Russian loans.
It would be good to see China and Russia get burned for their support for Maduro.

But this is why China and Russia will desperately try to make nice with the opposition if it is clear Maduro is done.

I doubt that Maduro can survive a Brazilian onslaught to be quite honest.

[Chan Island]

At this point taking out the Maduro government is just euthanasia. It's a pretty pathetic administration that has been nothing but a complete and utter disaster for Venezuela.

It's a shame really. Chavez once looked like he could have made a good thing happen, but then he made a number of critical mistakes that Maduro refused to undo or address and in some cases even made worse.

Let's hope there isn't too much bloodshed...

[Orostan]

Shutting down RTVC on iffy technicalities and eliminating the biggest voice against PSUV wasn't censorship? In any other country, this would've been seen as a power grab.

RTVC was taken down in 2010 for not following government regulations. If the PSUV wanted to establish a dictatorship they’d have done so already - but they haven’t. The opposition still organizes, the elections are still held, and the opposition still has a lot of media under its control.

[Hammer Britannia]

inb4 world war 3 starts over a third world country only 2 people have heard about before the controversy.

ALBA is effectively dead. It barely functions and is not a credible military force.
Most members just wanted cheap oil.
No government in South America is actually going to fight a war to defend Maduro.

Even Cuba will not be too openly involved. They will continue to send some military forces to prop up the regime but they are not going to war.

China and Russia will dump Maduro as soon as it is clear he is going down. But that is not clear yet. Maduro does have an amazing ability to survive despite literally worst economic peacetime economic performance in recent history. Even Japan during WWII did better economically than Maduro has. Nuclear weapons do less economic damage than Chavismo.

But still he has survived. So he might still survive this.
Unfortunately the opposition tends to retreat when facing any real resistance.
They may do so again.

Hopefully Maduro finally goes down and the new leadership refuses to repay Chinese and Russian loans.
It would be good to see China and Russia get burned for their support for Maduro.

But this is why China and Russia will desperately try to make nice with the opposition if it is clear Maduro is done.

I doubt that Maduro can survive a Brazilian onslaught to be quite honest.

Brazil is the Russia (Manpower wise) of South America, so yeah.