La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

You should cite your sources on your other post, before complaining about your opponent not citing theirs.

Especially with the curious claims drawn.

My country has 150,000 dollars per capita, legit.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

In the most literal and blunt definition of socialism, there must functionally be zero inequality, because systems of socialism do not produce inequality, especially ones in which there is no money and/or distribution is more community-based.

Then by a that definition socialism has never and will never exist on any sort of scale.

Inequality is only inherent to market economies; if there is no system of which to distribute wealth to only one individual rather than to the community as a whole, there can be no inequality.

[Novus America]

Then by a that definition socialism has never and will never exist on any sort of scale.

Inequality is only inherent to market economies; if there is no system of which to distribute wealth to only one individual rather than to the community as a whole, there can be no inequality.

Which is why I mentioned scale. Different communities will have different amounts of resources.

But this is really getting beyond the the toptic. You can argue Venezuela is or is not socialist as even socialists argue over what is “true socialism”.

Regardless Venezuela is in horrible shape due to Chavista mismanagement.

[Novus America]

And the power grid failed again.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... ncna987596
Of course again it is, according to Chavistas some sort of US/opposition sabotage.

But yeah. If the Chavistas stay it merely a matter of time before it the lights go out permanently.

[Rio Cana]

A slave doesn't have to be whipped or abused to be a slave. Slavery isn't about conditions or anything like that: it is about control. Also, did you look for "the Democratic Republic of the Congo", "Bangladesh" or "Mexico"? Because, surprise, the GDP per capita defines economic conditions.
See which is higher:
Eritrea or Somalia/the DRC
North Korea or Bangladesh
Cuba or Mexico

Go ahead. Come on.

HDI wise,
DRC > Eritrea (by about 2 places and 0.017 points) > Somalia (by about 10 places and 0.8 points)
North Korea > Bangladesh (by about 25 places and 0.125 points)
Cuba > Mexico (by one place and 0.003 points) (also, Mexico is about 25% richer than Cuba per capita, whoops)
And that's without inequality. (I couldn't find stats for the 'socialist' countries in inequality, and since they're socialist according to you, it should be 0)
Assuming 0 for the socialist countries:
Cuba > Mexico (by 0.168 and 41 places)
North Korea > Bangladesh (by 0.271 and 63 places. Also NK is about 0.004 higher than SK in the index.)
Eritrea > DRC (by 0.121 and 23 places, no data for Somalia)

Want to know an economic fun fact? Mexico's GDP was double that of Venezuela when Chavez came to power. Now Venezuela's is double that of Mexico.

Socialism does not necessarily mean zero inequality.
If zero inequality is your measure of socialism it has never existed and will never exist.

Umm Mexico has a GDP of 1,199,264 million.
Venezuela 96,328.
Puerto Rico (104,557) has a bigger GDP than Venezuela!

You mean per Capita?
Mexico 9,318
Venezuela 6,890
Puerto Rico 31,581

You mean PPP adjusted per capita?
Mexico 19,480
Venezuela 12,388
Puerto Rico 37,895

Poverty rate for Mexico is 47%.
Poverty rate for Venezuela is 90%. It use to be 48% five years ago. But hyper-inflation has pushed most everyone into Poverty.
Poverty rate for Puerto Rico is 43.5%.

[Inkopolitia]

And the power grid failed again.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... ncna987596
Of course again it is, according to Chavistas some sort of US/opposition sabotage.

But yeah. If the Chavistas stay it merely a matter of time before it the lights go out permanently.

They said before it was an electromagnetic pulse, and then said that it was a sabotage. These aren't humans, these are cave-dwelling orangutans that somehow took the control of an entire country.

[Baltenstein]

And the power grid failed again.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... ncna987596
Of course again it is, according to Chavistas some sort of US/opposition sabotage.

But yeah. If the Chavistas stay it merely a matter of time before it the lights go out permanently.

They said before it was an electromagnetic pulse, and then said that it was a sabotage.

It's obvious, the imperialists sabotaged the power network through an electromagnetic pulse.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

They said before it was an electromagnetic pulse, and then said that it was a sabotage.

It's obvious, the imperialists sabotaged the power network through an electromagnetic pulse.

I mean, that’s actually a reasonable option, but sure.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

Socialism does not necessarily mean zero inequality.
If zero inequality is your measure of socialism it has never existed and will never exist.

Umm Mexico has a GDP of 1,199,264 million.
Venezuela 96,328.
Puerto Rico (104,557) has a bigger GDP than Venezuela!

You mean per Capita?
Mexico 9,318
Venezuela 6,890
Puerto Rico 31,581

You mean PPP adjusted per capita?
Mexico 19,480
Venezuela 12,388
Puerto Rico 37,895

Poverty rate for Mexico is 47%.
Poverty rate for Venezuela is 90%. It use to be 48% five years ago. But hyper-inflation has pushed most everyone into Poverty.
Poverty rate for Puerto Rico is 43.5%.

But Venezuela is 1/3rd as rich as Puerto Rico. So assuming the same level of inequality, in theory, Venezuela should have a 130.5% poverty rate. But it doesn’t. Also [citation needed]

[Novus America]

Poverty rate for Mexico is 47%.
Poverty rate for Venezuela is 90%. It use to be 48% five years ago. But hyper-inflation has pushed most everyone into Poverty.
Poverty rate for Puerto Rico is 43.5%.

But Venezuela is 1/3rd as rich as Puerto Rico. So assuming the same level of inequality, in theory, Venezuela should have a 130.5% poverty rate. But it doesn’t. Also [citation needed]

Poverty rate is based on whatever the poverty line is set to.
You can easily change your poverty rate just by changing the poverty threshold.

[Phoenicaea]

These aren't humans, these are..

you re right, indeed. they are sort of minus that would set a genocide rather than gaving up their caprice and their degrading reign, indeed i fear they are are doing it.

they are preparing genocide, since it has been done in Syria and it was well they get rewarded. they are looking forward to gain merit, which is to slay further million innocents.

[US-SSR]

There he goes again. For my money Bolton, Abrams -- and Pompeo for that matter -- had better be careful about who they threaten for sending troops to Venezuela to prop up the Maduro regime. The standard procedure for this Administration is that, after Individual-1 cuts your legs out from under you with a badly-timed Tweet, you get to bend over and say, "thank you, sir, may I please have another?"

[Baltenstein]

There he goes again. For my money Bolton, Abrams -- and Pompeo for that matter -- had better be careful about who they threaten for sending troops to Venezuela to prop up the Maduro regime. The standard procedure for this Administration is that, after Individual-1 cuts your legs out from under you with a badly-timed Tweet, you get to bend over and say, "thank you, sir, may I please have another?"

In any case, it's quite interesting to see how much the Russian gov actually cares about the "spheres of influence" model it talks so energetically about when it comes to its own backyard.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

This post is withdrawn.

[Novus America]

There he goes again. For my money Bolton, Abrams -- and Pompeo for that matter -- had better be careful about who they threaten for sending troops to Venezuela to prop up the Maduro regime. The standard procedure for this Administration is that, after Individual-1 cuts your legs out from under you with a badly-timed Tweet, you get to bend over and say, "thank you, sir, may I please have another?"

In any case, it's quite interesting to see how much the Russian gov actually cares about the "spheres of influence" model it talks so energetically about when it comes to its own backyard.

Russian logic: nobody but Russia can interfere in Russia’s “back yard”.
But Russia has the right to interfere in everyone else’s “back yard”.

Basically only Russia gets a “sphere of influence”.

[Hammer Britannia]

In any case, it's quite interesting to see how much the Russian gov actually cares about the "spheres of influence" model it talks so energetically about when it comes to its own backyard.

Russian logic: nobody but Russia can interfere in Russia’s “back yard”.
But Russia has the right to interfere in everyone else’s “back yard”.

Basically only Russia gets a “sphere of influence”.

"My dog can shit in everyone's backyard, but your dog can't shit in mine"

???

[Far Easter Republic]

[
They said before it was an electromagnetic pulse

If it was, we would have seen blackouts in Colombia too.

[Far Easter Republic]

In any case, it's quite interesting to see how much the Russian gov actually cares about the "spheres of influence" model it talks so energetically about when it comes to its own backyard.

Russian logic: nobody but Russia can interfere in Russia’s “back yard”.
But Russia has the right to interfere in everyone else’s “back yard”.

Basically only Russia gets a “sphere of influence”.

Russia needs to pull out. If Putin's generals have a brain stem, the should know there's a chance Trump's going put in troops too. It's a Prisoner's Dilemma.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

https://www.breitbart.com/national-secu ... -immunity/

It seems Maduro is legally planning the arrest or exile of Guaidó, which he doesn't need to do so legally
anyways.

If I were Maduro I would exile him on a plane to Miami, problem solved. I can see it now, this is flight 666 requesting permission to land at Miami International Airport, I have a high profile Venezuelan opposition leader requesting political asylum. If I were Maduro, I would exile all Venezuelan opposition political leaders to Miami, problem solved.

[Novus America]

Russian logic: nobody but Russia can interfere in Russia’s “back yard”.
But Russia has the right to interfere in everyone else’s “back yard”.

Basically only Russia gets a “sphere of influence”.

"My dog can shit in everyone's backyard, but your dog can't shit in mine"

???

Russian foreign policy in a nutshell.

[Cedoria]

No. They're understanding the net consequences of over a century worth of US foreign policy that has been explicitly devoted to the control of said resources despite the fact that the US is a net exporter.

Just because they don't need it, doesn't mean they don't want control of it. Same reason it sucks up to Saudi Arabia. Generally when you're that powerful, what you have is never enough, even when you don't need more.

Without the US, China owns their oil anyways so what's the difference? Oh - and the profit is being used to maintain the dictatorship.

And will be used to maintain the dictatorship that is subsequently established by an invasion from the north? So?

[Cedoria]

I am completely against socialism. I'm sick of hearing people saying 'That's not real socialism!' and 'Venezuela's economy is fine', because it's not, and people are starving and dying over there. The richest country in South America suddenly turns into one of the worst third world countries out there? That doesn't just happen. This is entirely the fault of socialism and the Maduro regime, and I look forward to the potential Guaido holds.

I'll just leave this source here...
https://www.foxnews.com/world/what-soci ... ez-crusade


So you can't accuse it of having leftie bias...


70% private economy is not socialist by any description. A governing party being socialist says nothing about the state of the overall economy, hence why Australia was not Socialist between 2007-2013 despite being run by a political party which was democratic socialist (according to itself).

Don't even need the 'real socialism' tag, it's not fake socialism either. It's just kind of sad. They basically just nationalised the oil and very little else.

[Novus America]

Without the US, China owns their oil anyways so what's the difference? Oh - and the profit is being used to maintain the dictatorship.

And will be used to maintain the dictatorship that is subsequently established by an invasion from the north? So?

Actually the US has made it clear we would only support Guaido until elections were held.
The US has supported dictatorships in the past, but that does not mean we always support dictatorships and never support democratic regimes.

Anyways so you would rather a known dictatorship openly giving control of its oil to Russia and China over a government that has said it would not?

It is very possible the Venezuelan National Assembly retaking control does NOT result in a dictatorship and loss of control of its oil.

Where we know with absolute certainty the continuation of the Chavista regime means lack of democracy and foreign control of Venezuelan oil.

[Far Easter Republic]

And will be used to maintain the dictatorship that is subsequently established by an invasion from the north? So?

Actually the US has made it clear we would only support Guaido until elections were held.
The US has supported dictatorships in the past, but that does not mean we always support dictatorships and never support democratic regimes.

Anyways so you would rather a known dictatorship openly giving control of its oil to Russia and China over a government that has said it would not?

It is very possible the Venezuelan National Assembly retaking control does NOT result in a dictatorship and loss of control of its oil.

Where we know with absolute certainty the continuation of the Chavista regime means lack of democracy and foreign control of Venezuelan oil.

And Venezuela has a lot of oil.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I am completely against socialism. I'm sick of hearing people saying 'That's not real socialism!' and 'Venezuela's economy is fine', because it's not, and people are starving and dying over there. The richest country in South America suddenly turns into one of the worst third world countries out there? That doesn't just happen. This is entirely the fault of socialism and the Maduro regime, and I look forward to the potential Guaido holds.

I'll just leave this source here...
https://www.foxnews.com/world/what-soci ... ez-crusade


So you can't accuse it of having leftie bias...


70% private economy is not socialist by any description. A governing party being socialist says nothing about the state of the overall economy, hence why Australia was not Socialist between 2007-2013 despite being run by a political party which was democratic socialist (according to itself).

Don't even need the 'real socialism' tag, it's not fake socialism either. It's just kind of sad. They basically just nationalised the oil and very little else.

Well, they did also over-regulate their economy with price controls and the like. Just because they didn't nationalize everything doesn't change that.