La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Loben]

Cubans?

Cuban security forces are in Venezuela, propping up the regime.

so already there are foreign troops inside the country operating in favor of the current regime....

rings of Grenada.

[Novus America]

Cuban security forces are in Venezuela, propping up the regime.

so already there are foreign troops inside the country operating in favor of the current regime....

rings of Grenada.

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

[Loben]

so already there are foreign troops inside the country operating in favor of the current regime....

rings of Grenada.

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

gee almost as if they were werent as out of place as soviet special forces......

[Uxupox]

so already there are foreign troops inside the country operating in favor of the current regime....

rings of Grenada.

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

Man Fidel Castro was literally a posadist.

[Novus America]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.trinid ... 0.amp.html

In the past 4 days 320 Venezuelan soldiers sent to keep out aid defected to Columbia.
Not enough to seriously undermine the military yet, but not an insignificant amount either.

It appears the lower ranks are not entirely reliable.
I guess shooting at your own people for wanting food and medicine is not good for morale.

[Cedoria]

so already there are foreign troops inside the country operating in favor of the current regime....

rings of Grenada.

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

Indeed, it's history on this subject is rather better then the United States, it's forces were on the right side of the Apartheid crisis, and played a key role in its dismantling, while the US intelligence agencies told the South Africans were to find Nelson Mandela to arrest him when they couldn't find him.

I'm in favour of Venezuela being free of foreign interference in total, but you can't possibly compare the scope, scale and results of the US interventions against the Cuban ones, any equivalency is just nonsense.

[Novus America]

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

Indeed, it's history on this subject is rather better then the United States, it's forces were on the right side of the Apartheid crisis, and played a key role in its dismantling, while the US intelligence agencies told the South Africans were to find Nelson Mandela to arrest him when they couldn't find him.

I'm in favour of Venezuela being free of foreign interference in total, but you can't possibly compare the scope, scale and results of the US interventions against the Cuban ones, any equivalency is just nonsense.

You are okay with interventions if they are on the political side you support.
The main real difference is Cuba lacks the means to do as much.
Not because it does not want to.

Also Cuba supported the genocidal Derg regime, and tried to topple the government of Bolivia for example.

[Greed and Death]

Indeed, it's history on this subject is rather better then the United States, it's forces were on the right side of the Apartheid crisis, and played a key role in its dismantling, while the US intelligence agencies told the South Africans were to find Nelson Mandela to arrest him when they couldn't find him.

I'm in favour of Venezuela being free of foreign interference in total, but you can't possibly compare the scope, scale and results of the US interventions against the Cuban ones, any equivalency is just nonsense.

Do you are okay with interventions if they are on the political side you support.
The main real difference is Cuba lacks the means to do as much.
Not because it does not want to.

Lets take a middle ground and just enforce a no fly zone over brazil.

[Loben]

Do you are okay with interventions if they are on the political side you support.
The main real difference is Cuba lacks the means to do as much.
Not because it does not want to.

Lets take a middle ground and just enforce a no fly zone over brazil.

and a JDAM or 12 into the presidential palace.

[Kubra]

so already there are foreign troops inside the country operating in favor of the current regime....

rings of Grenada.

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

I mean, tbf any country with power to project and an economic reason to do so is going to project power, in some form or another.

[East Gondwana]

There are very few leftist supporters of the Maduro regime. His hoarding of oil wealth for the state instead of distributing it equally among the people and his irresponsible printing of money have long turned away any leftist support. Many people don't seem to get this, but despite calling itself socialist, there is actually very little socialist about Venezuela. And socialists know this.

Old-school socialists do support him, though. For them, everything bad happening in Venezuela is the making of the US.

Venezuela has become a very good way to identify which leftists are tankies or crypto-tankies. All the authoritarian Marxist-Leninist types (and the followers of its off-shoots like Trotskyism and Stalinism) are coming out of the woodwork to dogmatically defend Maduro.

As a libertarian socialist I have to say that this has really revealed the mjor split in the contemporary left (well, one of them anyway).

[Peoples Cities]

I feel bad for Venezuela. I highly recommend this in depth look at this Empire Files piece on the situation in Venezuela https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk

also I don't understand how people can support an intervention in Venezuela while turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia who are massacring civilians in Yemen and blocking aide shipments their which is causing people to die of hunger and starvation all the while brutalizing their own people under one of the most repressive regimes in the world, meanwhile Venezuela still has opposition parties, free demonstrations and a free press not to mention having to contend with crushing sanctions and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

[Kaystein]

also I don't understand how people can support an intervention in Venezuela while turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia who are massacring civilians in Yemen and blocking aide shipments their which is causing people to die of hunger and starvation all the while brutalizing their own people under one of the most repressive regimes in the world, meanwhile Venezuela still has opposition parties, free demonstrations and a free press not to mention having to contend with crushing sanctions and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

It's politics. Fuck politics.

[Orange-Transvaal]

also I don't understand how people can support an intervention in Venezuela while turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia who are massacring civilians in Yemen and blocking aide shipments their which is causing people to die of hunger and starvation all the while brutalizing their own people under one of the most repressive regimes in the world, meanwhile Venezuela still has opposition parties, free demonstrations and a free press not to mention having to contend with crushing sanctions and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

It's politics. Fuck politics.

Agreed. To be honest they probably going to fall into a deadlock guerrilla civil war that will cause suffering for a entire generation.

[Kubra]

I feel bad for Venezuela. I highly recommend this in depth look at this Empire Files piece on the situation in Venezuela https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk

also I don't understand how people can support an intervention in Venezuela while turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia who are massacring civilians in Yemen and blocking aide shipments their which is causing people to die of hunger and starvation all the while brutalizing their own people under one of the most repressive regimes in the world, meanwhile Venezuela still has opposition parties, free demonstrations and a free press not to mention having to contend with crushing sanctions and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

Because war is a matter of national interest before it's a matter of humanitarian concerns, despite always being portrayed as the latter. This ain't even a right or left thing, everyone does it. If an administration wants a war with someone they take an angle that will seem appealing and really latch onto that.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

John Bolton has outright admitted that the US is looking to get it's claws on Venezuela's oil reserves, which are the largest in the world.

I just think Bolton wants to go war with someone, doesn't matter who or where.

[Puertollano]

The radical opposition forces on the border are officially terrorists. If you drive a truck into a crowd, throw explosives at police and threaten to kill members of the border guard, you are a terrorist.

[Phoenicaea]

^@Poertollano, it is called 'resistance' indeed. always changing features in eras, yet foundamentally the same since 4000bC, even bible of jews and then christians refers about.

these words are talk-show things, more than events. apart some bloodshed against civil population, it is even improper to use it for the jihad in foreign country, that is tv-talk.

the mewolf and shouted words as 'terrorists', and whatsoever, to describe a faction gives insight about who uses it, rather than about the other part.

if the regime uses genocide, and also if it would go well for the oppressor, as in Syria, their sons will pay for it. they have to surrender, it is the sensible thing to do.

[Puertollano]

^@Poertollano, it is called 'resistance' indeed. always changing features in eras, yet foundamentally the same since 4000bC, even bible of jews and then christians refers about.

these words are talk-show things, more than events. apart some bloodshed against civil population, it is even improper to use it for the jihad in foreign country, that is tv-talk.

the mewolf and shouted words as 'terrorists', and whatsoever, to describe a faction gives insight about who uses it, rather than about the other part.

if the regime uses genocide, and also if it would go well for the oppressor, as in Syria, their sons will pay for it. they have to surrender, it is the sensible thing to do.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Wait are people saying that the United States is planning a “takeover” of Venezuelan oil? On what basis is this? Have they ignored the past two decades unto where the United States under the direction of Bush, Obama and Trump is a net exporter of refined oil products.

No. They're understanding the net consequences of over a century worth of US foreign policy that has been explicitly devoted to the control of said resources despite the fact that the US is a net exporter.

Just because they don't need it, doesn't mean they don't want control of it. Same reason it sucks up to Saudi Arabia. Generally when you're that powerful, what you have is never enough, even when you don't need more.

Without the US, China owns their oil anyways so what's the difference? Oh - and the profit is being used to maintain the dictatorship.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

I feel bad for Venezuela. I highly recommend this in depth look at this Empire Files piece on the situation in Venezuela https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk

also I don't understand how people can support an intervention in Venezuela while turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia who are massacring civilians in Yemen and blocking aide shipments their which is causing people to die of hunger and starvation all the while brutalizing their own people under one of the most repressive regimes in the world, meanwhile Venezuela still has opposition parties, free demonstrations and a free press not to mention having to contend with crushing sanctions and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

While I don't like to say this, Venezuela's hope for economic prosperity lies in a stable government under Guiado to strife for reforms as Maduro would not do it. Saudi's hope for economic prosperity lies on the reforms of Muhammad "Chop-Chop" bin Salman.

[SD_Film Artists]

and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

I highly doubt that even our desperate post-Brexit government would actually keep the gold. They'll probably give it back to Venezuela once a legitimate government has been established. Or in the words of Father Ted; "I didn't steal it, the money was just resting in my account."

[Novus America]

It does. Cuba has long had an extensive, if checkered at best history of sending troops and security forces to support foreign regimes.

I mean, tbf any country with power to project and an economic reason to do so is going to project power, in some form or another.

True, just pointing out the people screaming that invertion is bad while defending Cuba are confused.

[Costa Fierro]

also I don't understand how people can support an intervention in Venezuela while turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia who are massacring civilians in Yemen and blocking aide shipments their which is causing people to die of hunger and starvation all the while brutalizing their own people under one of the most repressive regimes in the world, meanwhile Venezuela still has opposition parties, free demonstrations and a free press not to mention having to contend with crushing sanctions and most of their assets being frozen or seized illegally (e.g. UK seizing Venzuelan gold reserves worth one billion)

Because whataboutism isn't an effective argument against people taking a specific stance on a specific issue?

[Phoenicaea]

^ ..no person would like to invade a country in such a desperate condition for profit.

instead it is the regime alone that bets on selfish convinctions of not being invaded by starving crowds in exchange for support to ppvn (or whatever, the party).

there is no sensible way out, other than regime surrenders inconditionally, the first it does the best for them.

supposely, their are discussing treaty about the terms of rendition and about how to reorganize the government. if either they luxury exile or they do a 50-50 transition.