La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Risottia]

Crude goes in, refined goes out.

The United States is also a net exporter of crude oil.

This makes more sense.
Of course it fail to take into account the advantage of controlling another oil-exporting country, but hey, it's not like the US ever tried to mess with oil-exporting competitors like Libya, Iran or Iraq lately.

[Uxupox]

The United States is also a net exporter of crude oil.

This makes more sense.
Of course it fail to take into account the advantage of controlling another oil-exporting country, but hey, it's not like the US ever tried to mess with oil-exporting competitors like Libya, Iran or Iraq lately.

Iraq? Sure.

Iran? Geopolitics since the 60 and 70’s.

Libya? Blame the Europeans for that one.

[Novus America]

We have a guy from the 1980s who sent weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid aircraft in charge of aid to venezuela.

Yknow, there's a funny argument I've never seen answered: why not just search the aid trucks?

There certainly aren't so many of them that searching them is impossible. And if Maduro is genuinely concerned about weapons shipments, but wants the food and medicine, why not just actually look in said aid to ensure it is, yknow, aid?

Riddle me that, and maybe I'll start considering reasons why refusing humanitarian aid can be considered a legitimate and rational action for a nation-state where, objectively, the standards of living have dropped so considerably that millions of refugees have been generated.

But that would weaken the military’s monopoly on the importantion and sale of food and medical supplies.
Which would weaken the military’s control of society and cut into the generals’ profits.
How would the regime make sure supplies only go to government supporters?

Does anyone seriously believe this is about anything other than protecting the military’s food and medicine monopoly?

[Novus America]

The United States is also a net exporter of crude oil.

This makes more sense.
Of course it fail to take into account the advantage of controlling another oil-exporting country, but hey, it's not like the US ever tried to mess with oil-exporting competitors like Libya, Iran or Iraq lately.

We never actually got much oil from Iraq or Libya.
Also the situation in 2003 was completely different.
http://www.drillingcontractor.org/analy ... orts-15686

People fail to account for just how much the situation has changed in just the past decade.

[G-Tech Corporation]

This makes more sense.
Of course it fail to take into account the advantage of controlling another oil-exporting country, but hey, it's not like the US ever tried to mess with oil-exporting competitors like Libya, Iran or Iraq lately.

We never actually got much oil from Iraq or Libya.
Also the situation in 2003 was completely different.
http://www.drillingcontractor.org/analy ... orts-15686

People fail to account for just how much the situation has changed in just the past decade.

Genuine American oil running a genuine American economy baby.

Being able to tell petrostates to go fuck off is one of the best perks of American innovation.

[Farnhamia]

Since I didn't see a thread on this before...

Really? No Venezuela thread? It's only been here for a couple of weeks. Make that a month.

Merged.

[Phoenicaea]

^ i wouldn t agree saying that posted, rather ignorant, stuff about Venezuelan president 'being Us paycheck', or ruder, merely because of tireness, or because of need to shout.

think about. it is also bad taste, and with no effectiveness. it is not so different than saying 'Mattarella is a puppet', to fill Berlusconi's servants agit-prop.

or to say 'Al-Serrai is a useless, without grit, desk-man lead by Us and Un', just to make Gheddafi revanshists and dinasty grow larger.

If we say words matter and a life without brute force egemony matters, we should at least behave as if it was like this.

think about. even if we are not used to perceive that, there is people starving, fellow men left with no dignity, and what you do is to throw them 'whatever the institutions are shit'.

it is serious thing when you say 'the president, the parliament' (the following law institutions) are not 'so legitimate, so indipendent' while a country is under-siege.

without recognition, a country couldn t do anything, no checks, no food.

if we are used to this it doesn t mean we should sudjugate. use some respect and prudence if you wouldn t like to become Trump, Putin, Ergodan, Berlusconi victim shouting plebeians.

what would have become if reading people would have said in 1948 'De Gasperi is a paycheck of industry, that country has lost and has got no dignity'.

or in 1848 if fat lords would have manage to let pass the 'be repressive in protests, the central empires improve money and stability, hung these anarchists', for what matters.

[Yagon]

^ i wouldn t agree saying that posted, rather ignorant, stuff about Venezuelan president 'being Us paycheck', or ruder, merely because of tireness, or because of need to shout.

think about. it is also bad taste, and with no effectiveness. it is not so different than saying 'Mattarella is a puppet', to fill Berlusconi's servants agit-prop.

or to say 'Al-Serrai is a useless, without grit, desk-man lead by Us and Un', just to make Gheddafi revanshists and dinasty grow larger.

If we say words matter and a life without brute force egemony matters, we should at least behave as if it was like this.

think about. even if we are not used to perceive that, there is people starving, fellow men left with no dignity, and what you do is to throw them 'whatever the institutions are shit'.

it is serious thing when you say 'the president, the parliament' (the following law institutions) are not 'so legitimate, so indipendent' while a country is under-siege.

without recognition, a country couldn t do anything, no checks, no food.

if we are used to this it doesn t mean we should sudjugate. use some respect and prudence if you wouldn t like to become Trump, Putin, Ergodan, Berlusconi victim shouting plebeians.

what would have become if reading people would have said in 1948 'De Gasperi is a paycheck of industry, that country has lost and has got no dignity'.

or in 1848 if fat lords would have manage to let pass the 'be repressive in protests, the central empires improve money and stability, hung these anarchists', for what matters.

If I ever have a clique of kleptocrats, we'll call ourselves the Fat Lords.

[Phoenicaea]

^ ..@Yagon, cheers. it is nice, isn t it? we ll dispute then, behind the curtains, along with cigars and a good whiskey.

[Yagon]

^ ..@Yagon, cheers. it is nice, isn t it? we ll dispute then, behind the curtains, along with cigars and a good whiskey.

I'm of insufficiently refined taste to discern which whiskey is good, and I mix things with soda, which I am informed by enthusiasts masks the flavor.

I do like cigars.

Is there a Che Guevera of our time? Will some revolutionary rise up, on one side or the other?

[Holy Tedalonia]

We have a guy from the 1980s who sent weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid aircraft in charge of aid to venezuela.

Yknow, there's a funny argument I've never seen answered: why not just search the aid trucks?

There certainly aren't so many of them that searching them is impossible. And if Maduro is genuinely concerned about weapons shipments, but wants the food and medicine, why not just actually look in said aid to ensure it is, yknow, aid?

Riddle me that, and maybe I'll start considering reasons why refusing humanitarian aid can be considered a legitimate and rational action for a nation-state where, objectively, the standards of living have dropped so considerably that millions of refugees have been generated.

Maduro is only trying to show the illusion that he cares. On Twitter, he’s always talking about celebrations and how great Venezuela is doing.

[Novus America]

Yknow, there's a funny argument I've never seen answered: why not just search the aid trucks?

There certainly aren't so many of them that searching them is impossible. And if Maduro is genuinely concerned about weapons shipments, but wants the food and medicine, why not just actually look in said aid to ensure it is, yknow, aid?

Riddle me that, and maybe I'll start considering reasons why refusing humanitarian aid can be considered a legitimate and rational action for a nation-state where, objectively, the standards of living have dropped so considerably that millions of refugees have been generated.

Maduro is only trying to show the illusion that he cares. On Twitter, he’s always talking about celebrations and how great Venezuela is doing.

And stuffing his face with expensive food.
I am sure he would let the food in provided it was lobster, caviar and the like, so long as it was delivered directly to his palace.

[Costa Fierro]

The US does however have plans to plunge Venezuela into a civil war.

And how does it plan to do that? By smuggling arms inside aid packages? Ammunition inside packs of two minute noodles? Over an already porous border that the cartels have been smuggling drugs and firearms over for over a decade?

[Andsed]

We have a guy from the 1980s who sent weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid aircraft in charge of aid to venezuela.

Yknow, there's a funny argument I've never seen answered: why not just search the aid trucks?

There certainly aren't so many of them that searching them is impossible. And if Maduro is genuinely concerned about weapons shipments, but wants the food and medicine, why not just actually look in said aid to ensure it is, yknow, aid?

Riddle me that, and maybe I'll start considering reasons why refusing humanitarian aid can be considered a legitimate and rational action for a nation-state where, objectively, the standards of living have dropped so considerably that millions of refugees have been generated.

Agreed it seems very likely Maduro just wants to hold onto power even at the expense of his own people. Kinda make sense why so many Venezuelans are protesting him and are supporting Guaido.

[Costa Fierro]

The US is literally trying to start a civil war or coup a government to gain access to oil reserves, and you have the idea that the US is doing nothing wrong? Do I have to list every US military intervention in Latin America to you?

Considering that Venezuelan oil represents seven percent of a 19% chunk of America's yearly oil needs, you're gonna have to come up with something a bit better than trotting out a meme from 16 years ago.

[Rio Cana]

The US is literally trying to start a civil war or coup a government to gain access to oil reserves, and you have the idea that the US is doing nothing wrong? Do I have to list every US military intervention in Latin America to you?

Considering that Venezuelan oil represents seven percent of a 19% chunk of America's yearly oil needs, you're gonna have to come up with something a bit better than trotting out a meme from 16 years ago.

This sudden outside interest with Ven. is just political. There is a UN official who has knowledge on Ven. and who no one seems to care to listen too. He says the oppositions gamble, which he says seems to be driven from external sources, could turn out to bite them. That if they did manage to push out Maduro, what about the seven million hardcore supporters. That it would not be like times before when a Pres. was overthrown that everyone accepted it.

Local news say some US troops have already arrived on our island waiting for the possible order to head to Ven.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Considering that Venezuelan oil represents seven percent of a 19% chunk of America's yearly oil needs, you're gonna have to come up with something a bit better than trotting out a meme from 16 years ago.

This sudden outside interest with Ven. is just political. There is a UN official who has knowledge on Ven. and who no one seems to care to listen too. He says the oppositions gamble, which he says seems to be driven from external sources, could turn out to bite them. That if they did manage to push out Maduro, what about the seven million hardcore supporters. That it would not be like times before when a Pres. was overthrown that everyone accepted it.

Local news say some US troops have already arrived on our island waiting for the possible order to head to Ven.

Foreign aid can only be good, if its a problem, have military checkpoints to check them and make sure they are safe for the public.

[Rio Cana]

This sudden outside interest with Ven. is just political. There is a UN official who has knowledge on Ven. and who no one seems to care to listen too. He says the oppositions gamble, which he says seems to be driven from external sources, could turn out to bite them. That if they did manage to push out Maduro, what about the seven million hardcore supporters. That it would not be like times before when a Pres. was overthrown that everyone accepted it.

Local news say some US troops have already arrived on our island waiting for the possible order to head to Ven.

Foreign aid can only be good, if its a problem, have military checkpoints to check them and make sure they are safe for the public.

This so called foreign help has political strings attached. Why are not all these nations sending help sending it via the Red Cross (RC.). Venezuela has a Red Cross (RC.) Of course, the RC. says they are neutral. They will not get involved in playing political games. Found out that RC has said that some supplies that were going to Ven. from Brazil had illegally used the RC symbol on the supplies since they were not from the RC

[Holy Tedalonia]

Foreign aid can only be good, if its a problem, have military checkpoints to check them and make sure they are safe for the public.

This so called foreign help has political strings attached. Why are not all these nations sending help sending it via the Red Cross (RC.). Venezuela has a Red Cross (RC.) Of course, the RC. says they are neutral. They will not get involved in playing political games. Found out that RC has said that some supplies that were going to Ven. from Brazil had illegally used the RC symbol on the supplies since they were not from the RC

Maduro turns foreign aid away, and people still attempt to help. Wanna talk about political strings attached, how about the Cubans he has guarding his unused oil fields?

[Loben]

This so called foreign help has political strings attached. Why are not all these nations sending help sending it via the Red Cross (RC.). Venezuela has a Red Cross (RC.) Of course, the RC. says they are neutral. They will not get involved in playing political games. Found out that RC has said that some supplies that were going to Ven. from Brazil had illegally used the RC symbol on the supplies since they were not from the RC

Maduro turns foreign aid away, and people still attempt to help. Wanna talk about political strings attached, how about the Cubans he has guarding his unused oil fields?

Cubans?

[Cedoria]

Wait are people saying that the United States is planning a “takeover” of Venezuelan oil? On what basis is this? Have they ignored the past two decades unto where the United States under the direction of Bush, Obama and Trump is a net exporter of refined oil products.

No. They're understanding the net consequences of over a century worth of US foreign policy that has been explicitly devoted to the control of said resources despite the fact that the US is a net exporter.

Just because they don't need it, doesn't mean they don't want control of it. Same reason it sucks up to Saudi Arabia. Generally when you're that powerful, what you have is never enough, even when you don't need more.

[Costa Fierro]

This sudden outside interest with Ven. is just political. There is a UN official who has knowledge on Ven. and who no one seems to care to listen too. He says the oppositions gamble, which he says seems to be driven from external sources, could turn out to bite them. That if they did manage to push out Maduro, what about the seven million hardcore supporters. That it would not be like times before when a Pres. was overthrown that everyone accepted it.

Local news say some US troops have already arrived on our island waiting for the possible order to head to Ven.

Foreign aid can only be good, if its a problem, have military checkpoints to check them and make sure they are safe for the public.

Letting food aid would be admitting defeat. In saying that, letting food aid in would also be a great way to gain support.

[Cedoria]

Maduro turns foreign aid away, and people still attempt to help. Wanna talk about political strings attached, how about the Cubans he has guarding his unused oil fields?

Cubans?

Yeah, the pro-intervention crowd has come up with all sorts of hysterical lunacy to try and justify invasion. Desperate stuff.

[Cedoria]

A socdem who wants to privatize all the oil for some normal and completely non-suspicious reason. Get real, the coup group is no socdem party.


So, you're an unironic imperialist? Do you, or do you not, believe the US should continue to exploit Latin America and has the right to do so?

I do not believe in exploitation, I believe in cooperation and unity.

I’m certainly not the President of the United States, however.

Indeed, this is my point.

Your intentions are no doubt compassionate, but the people running this invasion plan don't share it. Once you support it, you will be supporting their aims not yours, unless you have a lot of policy influence that you can bring to bear.


Yes, that makes you partially morally responsible for it, in my judgement, anybody familiar with the history of the region can see where this ends if the US invades.

[Novus America]

Maduro turns foreign aid away, and people still attempt to help. Wanna talk about political strings attached, how about the Cubans he has guarding his unused oil fields?

Cubans?

Cuban security forces are in Venezuela, propping up the regime.