La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Brandican]

1. Venezuela has a 70% private industry economy. This is objectively not worker control or production for use, therefore it's not socialism or communism.

2. This "aid" is being sent by a man known for sending weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid shipments. Venezuela actually accepts aid from the UN and Red Cross.

Pretty much yeah. I mean, you'd actually have to be wilfully ignorant at this point to think that another US backed intervention in Latin America is a good thing for anyone other than a few wealthy Americans.

John Bolton has outright admitted that the US is looking to get it's claws on Venezuela's oil reserves, which are the largest in the world.

[Costa Fierro]

Let's not pretend this is as simple as 'Maduro is a baddie!' Huh? The US has form when it comes to committing the occasional massive breech of international law to interfere in Latin American countries. There's no reason to suspect they've made any massive changes to their policies in that regard.

Maduro isn't afraid of weapons being smuggled into Venezuela. The border with its neighbours is so porous and the border and police forces so corrupt that all anyone would have to do would be to pay off a few border guards and drive truckloads of weapons in, and between Brazil and Colombia, there's no end to the source of illicit weapons that can and are flooding Venezuela. And there's nothing the government can do about it.

This is entirely political. Maduro wants to give off the impression that nothing is wrong with Venezuela and that the fault is really with the evil US imperialists. It's reiterating the sad, tired old lie that virtually all of Venezuela bar those who are enriching themselves off the PSUV and those desperate enough to get on board the "food for votes" scheme the government is employing do not buy.

Of course Maduro seems to think that there's some sort of conspiracy afoot and that the US only wants Venezuela's oil...even though the vast majority of the US' oil needs are produced from domestic sources, and Venezuela only represents seven percent of foreign imports, which in themselves account for 19% of the US' oil needs. Furthermore the largest purchaser and consumer of Venezuela's oil exports is the United States. Maduro can't rely on that claim anymore because it's completely bogus, especially when you consider he's handed a controlling share in Venezuela's oil extraction and refining operations to the Chinese.

[Orostan]

1. Venezuela has a 70% private industry economy. This is objectively not worker control or production for use, therefore it's not socialism or communism.

2. This "aid" is being sent by a man known for sending weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid shipments. Venezuela actually accepts aid from the UN and Red Cross.

1. Venezuela has a 30% communist economy. It’s people are starving. Maduro is doing everything he can to make that worse.

2. This aid can be searched and seized if it contains weapons.

3. Stop trying to hide the failures of communism.

1. "30% Communist economy" does not exist. You either have communism or you don't. You either have capitalism if you don't. Maduro's Venezuela has an economy based on private ownership of the means of production and production for exchange. Therefore it is a capitalist economy.

2. And that's exactly what Venezuela would do if the CIA and opposition were not doing their best to make sure the aid only gets to coup supporters.

In addition, the CIA has been smuggling arms into the country.

https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-compan ... ns/255049/

3. I have only presented the facts to you. I have covered up nothing - you seem to want to change the topic away from American war crimes though.

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/opin ... uilty.html

Here is an NYT article from when Elliott Abrams smuggled arms into Nigeria using humanitarian aid aircraft.

[Orostan]

Let's not pretend this is as simple as 'Maduro is a baddie!' Huh? The US has form when it comes to committing the occasional massive breech of international law to interfere in Latin American countries. There's no reason to suspect they've made any massive changes to their policies in that regard.

Maduro isn't afraid of weapons being smuggled into Venezuela. The border with its neighbours is so porous and the border and police forces so corrupt that all anyone would have to do would be to pay off a few border guards and drive truckloads of weapons in, and between Brazil and Colombia, there's no end to the source of illicit weapons that can and are flooding Venezuela. And there's nothing the government can do about it.

This is entirely political. Maduro wants to give off the impression that nothing is wrong with Venezuela and that the fault is really with the evil US imperialists. It's reiterating the sad, tired old lie that virtually all of Venezuela bar those who are enriching themselves off the PSUV and those desperate enough to get on board the "food for votes" scheme the government is employing do not buy.

Of course Maduro seems to think that there's some sort of conspiracy afoot and that the US only wants Venezuela's oil...even though the vast majority of the US' oil needs are produced from domestic sources, and Venezuela only represents seven percent of foreign imports, which in themselves account for 19% of the US' oil needs. Furthermore the largest purchaser and consumer of Venezuela's oil exports is the United States. Maduro can't rely on that claim anymore because it's completely bogus, especially when you consider he's handed a controlling share in Venezuela's oil extraction and refining operations to the Chinese.

>what is the petrodollar
>how does imperialism work

[Costa Fierro]

>what is the petrodollar

A desperate attempt at drawing in foreign currency to keep the regime propped up by jumping on the fickle bandwagon of cryptocurrencies?

>how does imperialism work

Ask the Chinese.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Pretty much yeah. I mean, you'd actually have to be wilfully ignorant at this point to think that another US backed intervention in Latin America is a good thing for anyone other than a few wealthy Americans.

John Bolton has outright admitted that the US is looking to get it's claws on Venezuela's oil reserves, which are the largest in the world.

The US seeking to acquire more influence in its sphere of influence!?

Colour me shocked!

[Orostan]

>what is the petrodollar

A desperate attempt at drawing in foreign currency to keep the regime propped up by jumping on the fickle bandwagon of cryptocurrencies?

>how does imperialism work

Ask the Chinese.

I mean the US Petrodollar. As in, selling your oil in US dollars vs Yuan or rubles.

The Chinese are not the ones currently destroying a Latin American country, I believe Mr. Abrams or Mr. Bolton might be better people to ask than a billion Chinese.

[Orostan]

John Bolton has outright admitted that the US is looking to get it's claws on Venezuela's oil reserves, which are the largest in the world.

The US seeking to acquire more influence in its sphere of influence!?

Colour me shocked!

Do you believe the USA has a right to destroy Latin America for not submitting to neoliberal capitalism because "muh sphere of influence"?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

This ^^

This ^^

1. Venezuela has a 70% private industry economy. This is objectively not worker control or production for use, therefore it's not socialism or communism.

2. This "aid" is being sent by a man known for sending weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid shipments. Venezuela actually accepts aid from the UN and Red Cross.

The government is allied with worker communes, so there is some socialism at work here. Just because they haven't nationalized/collectivized all businesses yet does not change that.

[Caracasus]

Let's not pretend this is as simple as 'Maduro is a baddie!' Huh? The US has form when it comes to committing the occasional massive breech of international law to interfere in Latin American countries. There's no reason to suspect they've made any massive changes to their policies in that regard.

Maduro isn't afraid of weapons being smuggled into Venezuela. The border with its neighbours is so porous and the border and police forces so corrupt that all anyone would have to do would be to pay off a few border guards and drive truckloads of weapons in, and between Brazil and Colombia, there's no end to the source of illicit weapons that can and are flooding Venezuela. And there's nothing the government can do about it.

This is entirely political. Maduro wants to give off the impression that nothing is wrong with Venezuela and that the fault is really with the evil US imperialists. It's reiterating the sad, tired old lie that virtually all of Venezuela bar those who are enriching themselves off the PSUV and those desperate enough to get on board the "food for votes" scheme the government is employing do not buy.

Of course Maduro seems to think that there's some sort of conspiracy afoot and that the US only wants Venezuela's oil...even though the vast majority of the US' oil needs are produced from domestic sources, and Venezuela only represents seven percent of foreign imports, which in themselves account for 19% of the US' oil needs. Furthermore the largest purchaser and consumer of Venezuela's oil exports is the United States. Maduro can't rely on that claim anymore because it's completely bogus, especially when you consider he's handed a controlling share in Venezuela's oil extraction and refining operations to the Chinese.

Bollocks mate. If this was a genuine aid mission, it'd be run through far more legitimate channels than currently used.

It's also perfectly reasonable to refuse to let aid into your country when the person responsible has previously used humanitatian aid as a pretext for smuggling arms to terrorists. It doesn't matter if those weapons could have been gotten into the country via another route.

I'm not a fan of Maduro, but there is no way in hell the US has some sort of moral authority to act as a facilitator for positive change in Latin America.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

The US seeking to acquire more influence in its sphere of influence!?

Colour me shocked!

Do you believe the USA has a right to destroy Latin America for not submitting to neoliberal capitalism because "muh sphere of influence"?

Last time I checked, the U.S. has no plans to nuke South America.

[Nantoraka]

I see Maduro is looking to invest in the human cuisine industry. An excellent move.

Of course. He's blocking food aid so Venezuela's Soylent Green™ industry can kick off.


Now I feel ambiguous about Maduro!

[Western Vale Confederacy]

The US seeking to acquire more influence in its sphere of influence!?

Colour me shocked!

Do you believe the USA has a right to destroy Latin America for not submitting to neoliberal capitalism because "muh sphere of influence"?

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

[Orostan]

1. Venezuela has a 70% private industry economy. This is objectively not worker control or production for use, therefore it's not socialism or communism.

2. This "aid" is being sent by a man known for sending weapons to Nicaragua in humanitarian aid shipments. Venezuela actually accepts aid from the UN and Red Cross.

The government is allied with worker communes, so there is some socialism at work here. Just because they haven't nationalized all businesses yet does not change that.

As long as a Capitalist market defines the way goods are produced and consumed in Venezuela it will remain a Capitalist country.

Do you believe the USA has a right to destroy Latin America for not submitting to neoliberal capitalism because "muh sphere of influence"?

Last time I checked, the U.S. has no plans to nuke South America.

The US does however have plans to plunge Venezuela into a civil war.

[Diarcesia]

Do you believe the USA has a right to destroy Latin America for not submitting to neoliberal capitalism because "muh sphere of influence"?

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

An equivalent of toppling Castro and reinstating Batista, you mean?

[Brandican]

A desperate attempt at drawing in foreign currency to keep the regime propped up by jumping on the fickle bandwagon of cryptocurrencies?



Ask the Chinese.

I mean the US Petrodollar. As in, selling your oil in US dollars vs Yuan or rubles.

The Chinese are not the ones currently destroying a Latin American country, I believe Mr. Abrams or Mr. Bolton might be better people to ask than a billion Chinese.

This intensity of this crisis can be somewhat blamed on the Chinese. As part of the Belt and Road Initiative, China began constructing infrastructure in Venezuela. In exchange, the Venezuelan government had to pay their loans through oil shipments. Then, the oil prices dropped like a meteor, making Venezuela unable to repay it's debts and becoming a Chinese debt slave. China is squeezing this all for it's worth, which is why it's supportive of Maduro. If China stopped supporting Maduro, Maduro would probably resign and Guido can take charge.

[Brandican]

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

An equivalent of toppling Castro and reinstating Batista, you mean?

Jean Guido is hardly a Batista.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

An equivalent of toppling Castro and reinstating Batista, you mean?

The current rebellion is lead by a social democrat, therefore that comparison is fucking worthless.

[Orostan]

I mean the US Petrodollar. As in, selling your oil in US dollars vs Yuan or rubles.

The Chinese are not the ones currently destroying a Latin American country, I believe Mr. Abrams or Mr. Bolton might be better people to ask than a billion Chinese.

This intensity of this crisis can be somewhat blamed on the Chinese. As part of the Belt and Road Initiative, China began constructing infrastructure in Venezuela. In exchange, the Venezuelan government had to pay their loans through oil shipments. Then, the oil prices dropped like a meteor, making Venezuela unable to repay it's debts and becoming a Chinese debt slave. China is squeezing this all for it's worth, which is why it's supportive of Maduro. If China stopped supporting Maduro, Maduro would probably resign and Guido can take charge.

Before oil prices dropped, the deal would have made a lot of sense. Venezuela gets infrastructure, China gets oil. And the US is excluded entirely. China currently supports Maduro because China's interests are opposed to the interests of the USA in this case.

[Diarcesia]

An equivalent of toppling Castro and reinstating Batista, you mean?

The current rebellion is lead by a social democrat, therefore that comparison is fucking worthless.

I'm cynical that Guido is what Venezuela needs to turn its crap around. Yes, he might not be as bad as Maduro or Batista for that matter. I think that the US will look the other way in his own shady stuff because he is more pliant.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

An equivalent of toppling Castro and reinstating Batista, you mean?

The current rebellion is lead by a social democrat, therefore that comparison is fucking worthless.

Sounds like the U.S. is promoting a reactionary agenda. Truly the next Pinochet.

[Orostan]

An equivalent of toppling Castro and reinstating Batista, you mean?

The current rebellion is lead by a social democrat, therefore that comparison is fucking worthless.

A socdem who wants to privatize all the oil for some normal and completely non-suspicious reason. Get real, the coup group is no socdem party.

Do you believe the USA has a right to destroy Latin America for not submitting to neoliberal capitalism because "muh sphere of influence"?

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

So, you're an unironic imperialist? Do you, or do you not, believe the US should continue to exploit Latin America and has the right to do so?

[Gruzya]

The European Union and the United States, with their sanctions, have strained the venezuelan economy and them now presenting themselves as the "Saviors" of Venezuela!

[Diarcesia]

The current rebellion is lead by a social democrat, therefore that comparison is fucking worthless.

A socdem who wants to privatize all the oil for some normal and completely non-suspicious reason. Get real, the coup group is no socdem party.

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

So, you're an unironic imperialist? Do you, or do you not, believe the US should continue to exploit Latin America and has the right to do so?

Theoretically, it is not a problem if they become part of the US and the Latin Americans get all the rights and privileges US citizens have. Not counting on that, however, given the problems the US has with the bunch that's already living there.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

The current rebellion is lead by a social democrat, therefore that comparison is fucking worthless.

A socdem who wants to privatize all the oil for some normal and completely non-suspicious reason. Get real, the coup group is no socdem party.

You are asking this to somebody who believes in the concept of a pan-continental alliance in the Americas (i.e. League of American States, sorta)...

Have a guess at my reply.

It is best for Maduro to be rapidly toppled, an indigenous, friendlier government installed, and this annoyance finally dealt with.

So, you're an unironic imperialist? Do you, or do you not, believe the US should continue to exploit Latin America and has the right to do so?

I do not believe in exploitation, I believe in cooperation and unity.

I’m certainly not the President of the United States, however.