La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[US-SSR]

I feel like if Maduro doesn't step down soon he might have a civil war on his hands with no food, clean water, power, medical care, money, jobs, etc the people might revolt as would the members of the military who aren't in Maduro's pockets. So how close do you think before the powder keg is lit?

lol, excellent question and hard to answer, we cant give up now, by we I mean the western style multi political party nations.

President Guaidó has declared no more oil for Cuba and has asked the international community of democratic nations to help make it so, John Bolton has tweeted:

"The Venezuelan National Assembly has decreed the suspension of crude exports to Cuba following the collapse of the national electrical grid. Insurance companies and flag carriers that facilitate these give-away shipments to Cuba are now on notice."

The eternal democratic revolution of Cuba will not take this lightly, all hell will break loose in Venezuela if oil shipments to Cuba are affected.

"On notice?" wtf does that mean? The Guaido faction may control the legal levers of PdVSA but I don't recall hearing any of them sitting at the wellheads and/or ports controlling operations; the US has even had to give its own nationals until mid-May to wind down dealings with the Maduro regime. This is the second time I recall hearing a US foreign policy official using this ridiculous, meaningless, unhelpful locution. Do they seriously think the US under this discredited administration can run the world like some fast food assistant manager chewing out a burger flipper for not washing her hands after leaving the john? "On notice," my cock. Spare us.

[Novus America]

lol, excellent question and hard to answer, we cant give up now, by we I mean the western style multi political party nations.

President Guaidó has declared no more oil for Cuba and has asked the international community of democratic nations to help make it so, John Bolton has tweeted:

"The Venezuelan National Assembly has decreed the suspension of crude exports to Cuba following the collapse of the national electrical grid. Insurance companies and flag carriers that facilitate these give-away shipments to Cuba are now on notice."

The eternal democratic revolution of Cuba will not take this lightly, all hell will break loose in Venezuela if oil shipments to Cuba are affected.

"On notice?" wtf does that mean? The Guaido faction may control the legal levers of PdVSA but I don't recall hearing any of them sitting at the wellheads and/or ports controlling operations; the US has even had to give its own nationals until mid-May to wind down dealings with the Maduro regime. This is the second time I recall hearing a US foreign policy official using this ridiculous, meaningless, unhelpful locution. Do they seriously think the US under this discredited administration can run the world like some fast food assistant manager chewing out a burger flipper for not washing her hands after leaving the john? "On notice," my cock. Spare us.

What alternative do you propose?
What should we be doing differently?

[US-SSR]

"On notice?" wtf does that mean? The Guaido faction may control the legal levers of PdVSA but I don't recall hearing any of them sitting at the wellheads and/or ports controlling operations; the US has even had to give its own nationals until mid-May to wind down dealings with the Maduro regime. This is the second time I recall hearing a US foreign policy official using this ridiculous, meaningless, unhelpful locution. Do they seriously think the US under this discredited administration can run the world like some fast food assistant manager chewing out a burger flipper for not washing her hands after leaving the john? "On notice," my cock. Spare us.

What alternative do you propose?
What should we be doing differently?

Not making empty threats like toting around notepads with "50,000 soldiers to Colombia" scratched on them or putting random people "on notice" without some clue as to what they're on notice for. Bolton. Not the brightest bear to stumble out of the neoconservative woods there.

[Novus America]

What alternative do you propose?
What should we be doing differently?

Not making empty threats like toting around notepads with "50,000 soldiers to Colombia" scratched on them or putting random people "on notice" without some clue as to what they're on notice for. Bolton. Not the brightest bear to stumble out of the neoconservative woods there.

It was 5,000.

But okay say Bolton never did that threat.

Then what? Maduro would still be in place.
Nothing much if anything would change.

[US-SSR]

Not making empty threats like toting around notepads with "50,000 soldiers to Colombia" scratched on them or putting random people "on notice" without some clue as to what they're on notice for. Bolton. Not the brightest bear to stumble out of the neoconservative woods there.

It was 5,000.

But okay say Bolton never did that threat.

Then what? Maduro would still be in place.
Nothing much if anything would change.

The US would have that much more of its reputation as a reliable international actor and partner intact. Not a priority for this administration I know but still.

[Novus America]

It was 5,000.

But okay say Bolton never did that threat.

Then what? Maduro would still be in place.
Nothing much if anything would change.

The US would have that much more of its reputation as a reliable international actor and partner intact. Not a priority for this administration I know but still.

This is just back to attacking again. Had Bolton not done that Maduro would be in the same place.
It had no real impact.

[Orostan]

They don’t need to privatize to get equipment and foreign experience. They can pay some oil company to train their workers. There is absolutely no evidence that Maduro rigged anything. All the evidence we have suggests it was a free and fair election. The crisis in Venezuela is so bad because of several factors, one of which being foreign and domestic economic war on the government and another being that the drop in oil prices came at a bad time for Venezuela. It’s not so simple as “CHAVISTAS BAD USA GOOD”.

Imperialism means using force to economically exploit another country. Are you arguing that Venezuela must do whatever the US commands or face poverty?


>waaaah the people won’t vote for the neoliberals waaaah

The opposition boycotted it because they could not win. They requested the UN not observe the elections because they knew they were legitimate.

Also, address my argument. Attacking my source for being pro-Maduro isn’t an argument.


1) “anything I don’t like is opinion”

2-3) It’s completely comparable! It’s the same thing!

4) “democracy is when the USA installs a puppet government.”

5) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/worl ... ycott.html

Here’s an article from the NY “execute strikers” Times. Don’t like the paper but I suppose this is as western a source as you could want.

A minor change is not going to fix Venezuela’s destroyed oil industry.

And you are not even addressing the key points.

Again address the electoral system for the “Constituent Assembly”, how it was NOT aone man one vote direct election but was indirectly elected via certain special interest groups.
And 75+% of the voters boycotted. So by saying only the opposition boycotted you admit the opposition is 75% of the voters!

Address why ONLY Venezuela has the same degree of economic problems!
Please stop avoiding this.

The oil price drop was the same for all petro states!
So why only Venezuela is in such a mess?

Russia, a petro state also under minor sanctions did not get hit nearly as badly and the economy started growing again, although slowly after oil prices recovered!

Oil prices are higher now then they were! Yet Venezuela saw no recovery!
Venezuela’s oil production was collapsing when oil prices were at their highest and long before any sanctions!

Not only do you have no casualty, you have no correlation to support your claims!

And oil prices are again never an excuse. If you fail to account for them being cyclical that is on you for a lack of preparation.

Oil prices do go up and down. Which is why successful petro states have to practice financial responsibility. Something the Chavistas never did.

This is not a simple as Chavistas bad USA good. But the Chavistas are still bad.

If the opposition had 75% support Maduro would be out already. People did not go to the polls only because "MUH EBIL DICTATOR MADURO". The opposition made the choice not to contest the election and to lobby the UN not to send observers because they knew it was a legitimate election and they knew they would loose.

Venezuela is not recovering today because the Capitalist class of the country is sending their goods to Columbia and selling at huge prices on the black market. They actively working to sabotage the country. Venezuela probably could have taken a drop in oil prices - just not an extreme plunge and active sabotage from the CIA and their Capitalist class.

>waaaah the people won’t vote for the neoliberals waaaah

Or because Venezuelans have little faith in an electoral system abused by the incumbent president? After all, when polling indicates that 72% of the population doesn't trust the electoral authority, the idea that it wasn't a legitimate election purely because the wrong candidate wasn't elected is farcical. Furthermore, 65% of those polled believed Falcón was collaborating with Maduro.

So it's more Venezuelans generally lack faith in the electoral system, and they can hardly be blamed.

The opposition boycotted it because they could not win.

The opposition boycotted because most of their leaders were either incarcerated, under house arrest, hiding in foreign embassies or in exile. Turns out when you start to persecute the political opposition it makes it difficult for said opposition to stand candidates.

Furthermore, polls indicated that even without more popular opposition figures standing for election, Falcón still was leading the polls. Furthermore, the MUD, which coincidentally was banned from running, was also leading the PSUV in every single poll conducted bar one.

They requested the UN not observe the elections because they knew they were legitimate.

Not quite true. Let's see what they actually said:

Venezuela’s opposition alliance called on the United Nations on Monday not to send observers to the presidential election on May 20 to avoid legitimizing a poll it says is rigged in favor of Socialist President Nicolas Maduro.

They asked the UN not to legitimise the election because they knew it was rigged. That's a bit of mental gymnastics to try and bend that to saying they approved of it when all their best known candidates were imprisoned or barred from running for office.

Also, address my argument. Attacking my source for being pro-Maduro isn’t an argument.

I did. Venezuela Analysis supports the Maduro regime. Ergo, by extension it cannot be trusted as being an impartial source.

1) That poll does not claim what you say it claims. 45% of people didn't vote because they didn't think it would fix the crisis. Another 13% didn't vote because the opposition betrayed them. 20% didn't vote because it was a "waste of time". If most people didn't vote because they said their votes didn't mean anything, you would have a point. As it is you are misrepresenting the facts in typical right wing fashion.

Also, this is from the Miami Herald. If you are able to disqualify anything that supports Maduro as "illegitimate sources", I am able to do the same for anything that opposes Maduro. But I won't because I am intellectually honest.

2) >waaaaaah you can't put coup conspirators and corrupt people in prison waaaaaah

I would also like to see these alleged polls and who they are polling.

3) That's the fucking opposition statement, of course they're going to invent some bullshit reason.

4) Their candidates were arrested on corruption and coup charges by the judiciary. Maduro didn't order that.

5) There are no impartial sources. If you want to attack the credibility of my source find a better argument than just "I don't like it".

[Orostan]

The US would have that much more of its reputation as a reliable international actor and partner intact. Not a priority for this administration I know but still.

This is just back to attacking again. Had Bolton not done that Maduro would be in the same place.
It had no real impact.

>the USA threatening to invade another country has no real impact
you are a funny guy.

[Shofercia]

So Maduro's still in power? Damn, Neocons and Neolibs must've lost a lot of steam. And now, Trump isn't going to invade, for the following reasons:

1. Trump is very much into self-promotion
2. Being reelected is a part of that self-promotion
3. Alienating the "fuck we're tired of war" lobby harms his reelection chances
4. Trump isn't going to harm his reelection chances to favor those who constantly spat on him during the election cycle

Also, there's not a whole lot of proof that Guiado or whatever his name is, will do a better job than Maduro. Countries that have experienced pro-US interventions, haven't done well.

Afghanistan - isn't the US negotiating with the Taliban? Wow, I thought that the World's best military could've defeated them, oh wait, Iraq intervened. Speaking of Iraq...

Iraq - US comes in, destabilizes a lot of shit, pulls out partially, ISIS takes control, US goes back in, eeek. Saddam was probably better than ISIS, unless you're Kurdish.

Kurds - US helps Kurds, unless said Kurds have a beef with Turkey, in which case they're on their own. Independent Kurdistan? Nah, seems like a thing of the past. And if Kurds couldn't fight for shit, they'd be ethnically cleansed again. Whoops.

Somalia - pirate attacks sort of stopped, but country's still a mess, wait did I say country? I meant Mogadishu, Puntland, Somaliland, and various anarchic parts are a mess. I guess we can call that a country. But don't call Abkhazia a country, that'd be mean.

Libya - ethnic cleansing in Tawargha, tons of anarchy, and the only one who has control is the man who is like Khadaffi, but doesn't quite provide as many social benefits as Khadaffi did. Welp, there went Libya's HDI, perhaps Facebook can become a popular name...

Syria - attempted coup, then Russians should up. Those meanies, keeping Assad in power. Waaa!

Yemen - got so bad that even the US Congress could no longer stomach it, I wonder why: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yeme ... SKCN1MC23J

Ukraine - "Yats and Poroshenko" came to power - how's that country doing? Poorest in Eastern Europe yet? Damn, Moldova had their Government steal 12% of the GDP, and Moldovans are still doing better than Ukrainians on a per capita PPP basis.

Hmmm, why don't Venezuelans want American aid, it's almost as if...

[Costa Fierro]

1) That poll does not claim what you say it claims. 45% of people didn't vote because they didn't think it would fix the crisis. Another 13% didn't vote because the opposition betrayed them. 20% didn't vote because it was a "waste of time". If most people didn't vote because they said their votes didn't mean anything, you would have a point. As it is you are misrepresenting the facts in typical right wing fashion.

In other words, they lost faith in the political system. If 45% of them don't vote because they didn't think it would change anything, that is a loss of faith. You vote because you hope to enact change.

Also, this is from the Miami Herald. If you are able to disqualify anything that supports Maduro as "illegitimate sources", I am able to do the same for anything that opposes Maduro.

So do it then. I can get to counter with "but you didn't actually address the fundamental argument".

But I won't because I am intellectually honest.

I'm not sure you should be using the words "intellectually" and "honest" in the same sentence.

2) >waaaaaah you can't put coup conspirators and corrupt people in prison waaaaaah

Ya'll got any objective evidence that they're "conspirators" or "corrupt"?

I would also like to see these alleged polls and who they are polling.

'

On the Wiki article I linked.

3) That's the fucking opposition statement, of course they're going to invent some bullshit reason.

So you said they told the UN that they didn't want them there because they knew that the elections were legitimate, so I corrected you on what they said and now said statement is "bullshit"? You gonna start actually coming up with a proper counter argument?

4) Their candidates were arrested on corruption and coup charges by the judiciary. Maduro didn't order that.

So a judiciary filled with Maduro's supporters ordered opposition politicians who just happened to be corrupt or plotting a "coup" that Maduro keeps saying is happening? And presumably you have no reason to question that because "why would they lie?"

5) There are no impartial sources. If you want to attack the credibility of my source find a better argument than just "I don't like it".

There are impartial sources. It's the job of those making the argument to find them if they want what they are saying to be taken seriously.

[US-SSR]

The US would have that much more of its reputation as a reliable international actor and partner intact. Not a priority for this administration I know but still.

This is just back to attacking again. Had Bolton not done that Maduro would be in the same place.
It had no real impact.

Well if I wanted someone or some company to take some action or refrain from taking some other action vis-a-vis Venezuela I might just go to the lengths of telling them what I wanted and what the consequences might be. On the other hand, if there was bugger all I could do about, say, insurance or shipping companies getting or staying involved in shipping Venezuelan oil to Cuba, I might not want to call attention to that fact by making empty threats like putting people "on notice."

But as I say the international reputation of the US Government doesn't seem to be something this administration keeps top of mind.

In other news, the Guaido faction now officially represents Venezuela to the International Development Bank; and American Airlines has suspended its service to Caracas.

[Costa Fierro]

So Maduro's still in power?

Political crises aren't resolved overnight.

Also, there's not a whole lot of proof that Guiado or whatever his name is, will do a better job than Maduro.

There's also no evidence he could do any worse. Because Guiado has not been in a position to effect change on government policy.

Afghanistan - isn't the US negotiating with the Taliban? Wow, I thought that the World's best military could've defeated them, oh wait, Iraq intervened. Speaking of Iraq...

The same people that created the Taliban also defeated the Soviets. Afghanistan hasn't exactly been a cake walk for any powerful empire. Ask the British. They had more than one attempt at it and failed miserably.

Iraq - US comes in, destabilizes a lot of shit, pulls out partially, ISIS takes control, US goes back in, eeek. Saddam was probably better than ISIS, unless you're Kurdish.

Iraq wasn't that stable before 2003 but I will agree that the invasion didn't make things better.

Kurds - US helps Kurds, unless said Kurds have a beef with Turkey, in which case they're on their own. Independent Kurdistan? Nah, seems like a thing of the past. And if Kurds couldn't fight for shit, they'd be ethnically cleansed again. Whoops.

Not sure how the Kurds being ethnically cleansed is any result of the United States, and need I remind you the Russians also support the Kurds.

Somalia - pirate attacks sort of stopped, but country's still a mess, wait did I say country? I meant Mogadishu, Puntland, Somaliland, and various anarchic parts are a mess. I guess we can call that a country. But don't call Abkhazia a country, that'd be mean.

Somalia was in a civil war long before 1993.

Libya - ethnic cleansing in Tawargha, tons of anarchy, and the only one who has control is the man who is like Khadaffi, but doesn't quite provide as many social benefits as Khadaffi did. Welp, there went Libya's HDI, perhaps Facebook can become a popular name...

An intervention that was led and championed by France.

Syria - attempted coup, then Russians should up. Those meanies, keeping Assad in power. Waaa!

They did ignore a Russian offer to have Assad step aside in 2012.

Yemen - got so bad that even the US Congress could no longer stomach it, I wonder why: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yeme ... SKCN1MC23J

You can thank the Saudis for that.

Ukraine - "Yats and Poroshenko" came to power - how's that country doing? Poorest in Eastern Europe yet? Damn, Moldova had their Government steal 12% of the GDP, and Moldovans are still doing better than Ukrainians on a per capita PPP basis.

Not sure how the Ukrainian situation could be directly related to an American intervention.

Hmmm, why don't Venezuelans want American aid, it's almost as if...

Certain people are trying to connect the dots where there are no dots to be connected? Plus, it's not the Venezuelans that don't want aid, it's the Venezuelan government.

[Shofercia]

So Maduro's still in power?

Political crises aren't resolved overnight.

It's been ongoing since the 2018 elections. We're not talking about overnight here.

Also, there's not a whole lot of proof that Guiado or whatever his name is, will do a better job than Maduro.

There's also no evidence he could do any worse. Because Guiado has not been in a position to effect change on government policy.

Oh wow, I did get his name right. Cool.

Afghanistan - isn't the US negotiating with the Taliban? Wow, I thought that the World's best military could've defeated them, oh wait, Iraq intervened. Speaking of Iraq...

The same people that created the Taliban also defeated the Soviets. Afghanistan hasn't exactly been a cake walk for any powerful empire. Ask the British. They had more than one attempt at it and failed miserably.

The British military is overrated. The Soviets were in Afghanistan for nine years. The US has been there for eighteen. Also, the Soviets had to deal with American aid; Americans don't have to deal with foreign aid coming to Taliban.

Iraq - US comes in, destabilizes a lot of shit, pulls out partially, ISIS takes control, US goes back in, eeek. Saddam was probably better than ISIS, unless you're Kurdish.

Iraq wasn't that stable before 2003 but I will agree that the invasion didn't make things better.

It was certainly stable enough to hold off the likes of ISIS.

Kurds - US helps Kurds, unless said Kurds have a beef with Turkey, in which case they're on their own. Independent Kurdistan? Nah, seems like a thing of the past. And if Kurds couldn't fight for shit, they'd be ethnically cleansed again. Whoops.

Not sure how the Kurds being ethnically cleansed is any result of the United States, and need I remind you the Russians also support the Kurds.

You misread that Costa - reread it. I said that if the Kurds didn't know how to fight - they'd be ethnically cleansed. That post pointed out that the Kurds were/are able fighters. I included the Kurds as part of the overall clusterfuck in the region. I have nothing against Kurds, and I cheered for them in Kobane.

Somalia - pirate attacks sort of stopped, but country's still a mess, wait did I say country? I meant Mogadishu, Puntland, Somaliland, and various anarchic parts are a mess. I guess we can call that a country. But don't call Abkhazia a country, that'd be mean.

Somalia was in a civil war long before 1993.

Did the intervention help?

Libya - ethnic cleansing in Tawargha, tons of anarchy, and the only one who has control is the man who is like Khadaffi, but doesn't quite provide as many social benefits as Khadaffi did. Welp, there went Libya's HDI, perhaps Facebook can become a popular name...

An intervention that was led and championed by France.

You do realize how the "we followed the French into battle" excuse must sound, right?

Syria - attempted coup, then Russians should up. Those meanies, keeping Assad in power. Waaa!

They did ignore a Russian offer to have Assad step aside in 2012.

I'll label that one as a "whoops"

Yemen - got so bad that even the US Congress could no longer stomach it, I wonder why: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yeme ... SKCN1MC23J

You can thank the Saudis for that.

And who supported them until Kashoggi was killed in an embassy?

Ukraine - "Yats and Poroshenko" came to power - how's that country doing? Poorest in Eastern Europe yet? Damn, Moldova had their Government steal 12% of the GDP, and Moldovans are still doing better than Ukrainians on a per capita PPP basis.

Not sure how the Ukrainian situation could be directly related to an American intervention.

There was a leaked call between Pyatt and Nuland about which Ukrainian leaders they preferred in charged, and those leaders magically ended up being in charge. There was also Biden's admission about applying pressure on Yanukovich. I can come up with more connections if you'd like.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.

Pyatt: Yeah, no, I think that's right. OK. Good. Do you want us to set up a call with him as the next step?

https://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/ ... ine-103638

Biden made clear that while the United States condemns violence by all parties, the government bears “special responsibility to de-escalate the situation.” Biden also called on Ukraine’s government to address the protestors’ “legitimate grievances” and put forward proposals for political reform. Biden has spoken frequently with Yanukovych during the standoff between the government and protesters.

Hmmm, why don't Venezuelans want American aid, it's almost as if...

Certain people are trying to connect the dots where there are no dots to be connected? Plus, it's not the Venezuelans that don't want aid, it's the Venezuelan government.

Can Humanitarian Aid be delivered via the UN? If it's truly about Humanitarian Aid, where's the Humanitarian Aid for the starving African kids? Why not push Humanitarian Aid to Yemen through the blockade? This Humanitarian Aid seems rather selective.

[CrvenaParsa]

As much as i despise Maduro. Guadio just seems like the archetype CIA plant to me.

[Greed and Death]

As much as i despise Maduro. Guadio just seems like the archetype CIA plant to me.

Honestly the country would do better with a CIA plant.

It is time we accept that American soft coups are humanitarian in purpose.

[Novus America]

As much as i despise Maduro. Guadio just seems like the archetype CIA plant to me.

Even if he was (he is not) he would be much better than Maduro.
Though pretty much anyone would be. Maduro’s level of incompetence is truly special.

He has made the Great Depression look like a mild recession.
Venezuela has the worlds worst economic growth by far (NEGATIVE double digits), highest inflation, is vying for the top in violent crime, millions fleeing.

Pretty much everything is falling apart. If the Chavistas do not go, Venezuela will end up like Somalia.

[Orostan]

1) That poll does not claim what you say it claims. 45% of people didn't vote because they didn't think it would fix the crisis. Another 13% didn't vote because the opposition betrayed them. 20% didn't vote because it was a "waste of time". If most people didn't vote because they said their votes didn't mean anything, you would have a point. As it is you are misrepresenting the facts in typical right wing fashion.

In other words, they lost faith in the political system. If 45% of them don't vote because they didn't think it would change anything, that is a loss of faith. You vote because you hope to enact change.

Also, this is from the Miami Herald. If you are able to disqualify anything that supports Maduro as "illegitimate sources", I am able to do the same for anything that opposes Maduro.

So do it then. I can get to counter with "but you didn't actually address the fundamental argument".

But I won't because I am intellectually honest.

I'm not sure you should be using the words "intellectually" and "honest" in the same sentence.

2) >waaaaaah you can't put coup conspirators and corrupt people in prison waaaaaah

Ya'll got any objective evidence that they're "conspirators" or "corrupt"?

I would also like to see these alleged polls and who they are polling.

'

On the Wiki article I linked.

3) That's the fucking opposition statement, of course they're going to invent some bullshit reason.

So you said they told the UN that they didn't want them there because they knew that the elections were legitimate, so I corrected you on what they said and now said statement is "bullshit"? You gonna start actually coming up with a proper counter argument?

4) Their candidates were arrested on corruption and coup charges by the judiciary. Maduro didn't order that.

So a judiciary filled with Maduro's supporters ordered opposition politicians who just happened to be corrupt or plotting a "coup" that Maduro keeps saying is happening? And presumably you have no reason to question that because "why would they lie?"

5) There are no impartial sources. If you want to attack the credibility of my source find a better argument than just "I don't like it".

There are impartial sources. It's the job of those making the argument to find them if they want what they are saying to be taken seriously.

1) They didn't vote because they didn't think it would fix the economy. If they said "my vote does not matter - the outcome of the vote is already determined" as a reason, then you might have a point.

2)
>do it and you're wrong
>but when i do it i'm right

3) Have you read about these people? They got barred from elections for misusing money and attempting to gather support for a coup. That would get them in trouble in any country in the world.

4) These polls accuracy is questionable. For starters there is a very wide dispersion between the pro-maduro and anti-maduro polls. Secondly, one of those polls put Leopoldo Lopez at 40% of the vote - something no other poll does. Overall the accuracy of any of these polls is questionable, even the pro-Maduro polls. What we do know from the election is that the opposition chose to boycott it and discourage international observation. If we assume the election was illegitimate, I fail to see how discouraging UN monitoring of the election would help the opposition. If the UN says the election was rigged, that would benefit the opposition. The only logical conclusion I can draw from this is that the election was in fact legitimate, and the opposition knows this.

5) You are asking me to believe what the opposition says with no questions asked. Next you criticize me for supposedly doing the same but with the Venezuelan judiciary. This seems slightly hypocritical.

6) Ask as many questions about the rulings as you like. But please present evidence that this was fabricated or that corruption does not exist among the US funded Venezuelan opposition.

7) There is a coup going on, have you been paying attention to the news at all?

Everything that is said or written by a human has bias. You cannot seriously claim that absolutely impartial sources exist.

[Phoenicaea]

you shouldn t reply to shame posters, if praise either Chavez or Putin, or whather the hog, if you do your purpose is mainly to let this sewer stuff gain height so that it floods the tread.

[CrvenaParsa]

As much as i despise Maduro. Guadio just seems like the archetype CIA plant to me.

Honestly the country would do better with a CIA plant.

It is time we accept that American soft coups are humanitarian in purpose.

Maybe for homosexuals and foreign investors.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Honestly the country would do better with a CIA plant.

It is time we accept that American soft coups are humanitarian in purpose.

Maybe for homosexuals and foreign investors.

homosexuality has nothing to do with the crisis in Venezuela.

[CrvenaParsa]

Maybe for homosexuals and foreign investors.

homosexuality has nothing to do with the crisis in Venezuela.

I was referring to Greed and Death's claim that CIA coups were humanitarian.

[Shofercia]

homosexuality has nothing to do with the crisis in Venezuela.

I was referring to Greed and Death's claim that CIA coups were humanitarian.

I see we've met yet another GnD victim. GnD is known for a certain style of posting, one that is not always honest, and oftentimes rather jocular, going into dark humor. I think that at one point in time he claimed that launching nukes was a good thing.

[Gig em Aggies]

I was referring to Greed and Death's claim that CIA coups were humanitarian.

I see we've met yet another GnD victim. GnD is known for a certain style of posting, one that is not always honest, and oftentimes rather jocular, going into dark humor. I think that at one point in time he claimed that launching nukes was a good thing.

well its like what happened with Thanos who thought that the snap was a good thing then well Avengers AD After Decimation.

[Shofercia]

I see we've met yet another GnD victim. GnD is known for a certain style of posting, one that is not always honest, and oftentimes rather jocular, going into dark humor. I think that at one point in time he claimed that launching nukes was a good thing.

well its like what happened with Thanos who thought that the snap was a good thing then well Avengers AD After Decimation.

Can you imagine what would happen once he punks his girlfriend one time too many, and she thinks that his marriage proposal is part of an elaborate prank? It's like Inception

[Khataiy]

Maduro needs to be overthrown this pig is supported by China and Iran, he hosts Party of Satan militants and he backs Assad who is a Safavid client I hope Trump invades Venezuela to sever a funding post for the Party of Satan, the Mosque shooting coward is on the same side as the Chinese and they back the Safavids and their detestable activities in the Middle East and they back Venezuela and Venezuela backs them this circle of Satan needs to be wiped out.