La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[SD_Film Artists]

We will see if the aid is allowed to go through or not, and if their is any violence or not on the part of the military. Thank you for a good post US-SSR.

I'm curious how pro-Maduro leftists outside of Venezuela can square it with their conscience when aid is being denied and migrants are having tear gas thrown at them. Perhaps going with a "Western conspirators" narrative or changing the subject by talking about sanctions.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

We will see if the aid is allowed to go through or not, and if their is any violence or not on the part of the military. Thank you for a good post US-SSR.

I'm curious how pro-Maduro leftists outside of Venezuela can square it with their conscience when aid is being denied and migrants are having tear gas thrown at them. Perhaps going with a "Western conspirators" narrative or changing the subject by talking about sanctions.

They really do believe Maduro is a democratically elected President and Venezuela is a democratic nation, just like they believe the same about Cuba, which is their democratic right to do so and their democratic right to post it.

[The Archregimancy]

For what it's worth, I've had it confirmed this past week that at least some Western national Red Cross societies have been quietly channelling funds to the Venezuelan Red Cross. For a variety of reasons, this isn't being publicised; but it is happening.

[Anarcho capitalist utopia]

Apparently you can just "declare yourself president" now. How convinient

[SD_Film Artists]

I'm curious how pro-Maduro leftists outside of Venezuela can square it with their conscience when aid is being denied and migrants are having tear gas thrown at them. Perhaps going with a "Western conspirators" narrative or changing the subject by talking about sanctions.

They really do believe Maduro is a democratically elected President and Venezuela is a democratic nation, just like they believe the same about Cuba, which is their democratic right to do so and their democratic right to post it.

NSG is a democracy? I thought we lead our lives by the will of God Emperor Barry.

[SD_Film Artists]

Apparently you can just "declare yourself president" now. How convinient

You're talking about Maduro or Guaidó?

[Webus]

I am happy to see a government with some democratic legitimacy take the place of an autocratic government

oh the irony

[The Archregimancy]

why not use the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). The RC is supposed to be completely neutral.

The ICRC already is working in Venezuela.

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/venezu ... nvironment.

En español:

https://www.icrc.org/es/document/venezu ... polarizado


However, while the ICRC has an important role to play, given that the current crisis is (for the time being, at least) still primarily a peacetime humanitarian disaster, and not a conflict-based disaster, much of the international Red Cross support would - for now - be channelled via the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, or IFRC.

The IFRC has very recently visited Venezuela, calling on all stakeholders with an interest in the current crisis to respect Red Cross neutrality:

https://media.ifrc.org/ifrc/press-relea ... venezuela/
https://media.ifrc.org/ifrc/press-relea ... president/

I also know that, as noted above, some Western national Red Cross societies have been sending funds to the Venezuelan Red Cross.

The Red Cross movement is indeed rigorously neutral; it's neutrality is core to its effectiveness. However, there's very little the Red Cross movement - whether the ICRC, IFRC, or national societies - can do unless the Venezuelan government agrees to allow the Red Cross in.

[The Archregimancy]

At least some members of the Venezuelan National Guard have been abandoning border posts on the Colombian border, crossing the border into Colombia and asking for help from Colombian authorities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47343918

Despite the headline, at present it seems to be only a small number of Guard members, and doesn't seem to have involved the regular army.

[Novus America]

At least some members of the Venezuelan National Guard have been abandoning border posts on the Colombian border, crossing the border into Colombia and asking for help from Colombian authorities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47343918

Despite the headline, at present it seems to be only a small number of Guard members, and doesn't seem to have involved the regular army.

Hopefully this continues. No matter how brainwashed and corrupt the might be, shooting their own people to prevent them from getting medicine and food must be bad for morale.

[ShakaZuli]

Venezuelans need to defend their souveregnity and stand to Maduro. Otherwise they will become another US client state.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

Venezuelans need to defend their souveregnity and stand to Maduro. Otherwise they will become another US client state.

lol, they are already a Cuba client state.

[Novus America]

Venezuelans need to defend their souveregnity and stand to Maduro. Otherwise they will become another US client state.

Umm they are already a Cuban/Russian/Chinese client state.
Maduro already sold them out.

And being less openly hostile to the US =/= being a US client state.
Besides things are far better in the pro US Colombia.

[Yusseria]

lol appeasement never works.

Not even appeasement. Just don't meddle, for heaven's sake. The Venezuelan people can and should be trusted to figure this out on their own. This paternalistic nonsense that some foreign power absolutely must intervene through military or even economic means (which often involves hurting the people you claim to want to help) to solve political and economic crises in the "third world" has never worked out for the people in the "third world".

If Maduro must go, the Venezuelan people will eventually see to it one way or the other.

Of course they can handle it on their own. Sometimes they just need a gentle, loving nudge in the form of economic sanctions.

[ShakaZuli]

Venezuelans need to defend their souveregnity and stand to Maduro. Otherwise they will become another US client state.

Umm they are already a Cuban/Russian/Chinese client state.
Maduro already sold them out.

And being less openly hostile to the US =/= being a US client state.
Besides things are far better in the pro US Colombia.

Thoose countries cannot have client states. Thoose countries are not agressively exporting their systems to other countries. It is obviously what happens in Venezuela is an pro-USA/Israeli coup.

Also, I remeber back in the days when Chavez was still alive he was the main star of all world leftist, praised like somekind super star. All the mainstream media were shilling him. Today, not a single leftist stands to his successor nor to the Bolivarian revolution. It is sad that it is the western far-right who supports Maduro.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

According to this article the Venezuelan military is not allowing the aid to pass through, and violence has broken out once again. As long as the military generals and the military soldiers who are the ones who actually do the fighting remain loyal to Maduro, Maduro remains in power.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/so ... spartandhp

[Novus America]

Umm they are already a Cuban/Russian/Chinese client state.
Maduro already sold them out.

And being less openly hostile to the US =/= being a US client state.
Besides things are far better in the pro US Colombia.

Thoose countries cannot have client states. Thoose countries are not agressively exporting their systems to other countries. It is obviously what happens in Venezuela is an pro-USA/Israeli coup.

Also, I remeber back in the days when Chavez was still alive he was the main star of all world leftist, praised like somekind super star. All the mainstream media were shilling him. Today, not a single leftist stands to his successor nor to the Bolivarian revolution. It is sad that it is the western far-right who supports Maduro.

Oh really?
They absolutely are trying to export their system.

Some on the far left still support Maduro.
But it is hard considering how horribly incompetent, authoritarian and corrupt he is.

[ShakaZuli]

Oh really?
They absolutely are trying to export their system.

Some on the far left still support Maduro.
But it is hard considering how horribly incompetent, authoritarian and corrupt he is.

They dont. You dont see Cuba or Russia invading countries and exporting their political system like Israel/USA is doing.

[Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores]

Thoose countries cannot have client states. Thoose countries are not agressively exporting their systems to other countries. It is obviously what happens in Venezuela is an pro-USA/Israeli coup.

Also, I remeber back in the days when Chavez was still alive he was the main star of all world leftist, praised like somekind super star. All the mainstream media were shilling him. Today, not a single leftist stands to his successor nor to the Bolivarian revolution. It is sad that it is the western far-right who supports Maduro.

Oh really?
They absolutely are trying to export their system.

Some on the far left still support Maduro.
But it is hard considering how horribly incompetent, authoritarian and corrupt he is.

I am sure ShakaZuli believes "nor to the Bolivarian revolution. The Cuban and Venezuelan Bolivarian revolutions are leftist democratic states, and that is his democratic right to do so and his democratic right to post it.

[Novus America]

Oh really?
They absolutely are trying to export their system.

Some on the far left still support Maduro.
But it is hard considering how horribly incompetent, authoritarian and corrupt he is.

They dont. You dont see Cuba or Russia invading countries and exporting their political system like Israel/USA is doing.

Um Cuba has sponsored numerous rebel groups based on its system.
And I guess you never heard of Ukraine?
Russian political influence operations?

[ShakaZuli]

Um Cuba has sponsored numerous rebel groups based on its system.
And I guess you never heard of Ukraine?
Russian political influence operations?

Ukraine? You mean that Ukraine where the US and the Soros organised a coup d`etat? That Ukraine in which the fairly elected president Yanukoviych was overthrown? In that country it were the ukrainian citizens itself who revolted against the US installed government.

The same goes for Cuba. It was only supporting liberation movement. While I am the last person who would defend communism and marxism, it is still the fact that Cuba is today a souvereign country which sought to make others as well.

[Novus America]

Um Cuba has sponsored numerous rebel groups based on its system.
And I guess you never heard of Ukraine?
Russian political influence operations?

Ukraine? You mean that Ukraine where the US and the Soros organised a coup d`etat? That Ukraine in which the fairly elected president Yanukoviych was overthrown? In that country it were the ukrainian citizens itself who revolted against the US installed government.

The same goes for Cuba. It was only supporting liberation movement. While I am the last person who would defend communism and marxism, it is still the fact that Cuba is today a souvereign country which sought to make others as well.

I am not going to derail the thread by getting into the details of what happened in Ukraine.

Umm so basically only Russia and Cuba have the right to be involved in other countries?
You support anti US interventions but say the US has no right to intervene?

And the US is absolutely supporting a liberation movement in Venezuela.
The US is a sovereign country supporting a liberation movement here.
However we want a democracy, not a Marxist dictatorship. That is the difference.
Liberation is not liberation if you impose a dictatorship.

And you seem to be quite favorable to Marxism as long as it claims to be anti American.

[The Archregimancy]

The number of deserters from Venezuelan security forces on the border is increasing - though realistically still not at anything close to a tipping point.

[The Archregimancy]

Oh really?
They absolutely are trying to export their system.

Some on the far left still support Maduro.
But it is hard considering how horribly incompetent, authoritarian and corrupt he is.

They dont. You dont see Cuba or Russia invading countries and exporting their political system like Israel/USA is doing.

Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_int ... _in_Angola

[Farnhamia]

The number of deserters from Venezuelan security forces on the border is increasing - though realistically still not at anything close to a tipping point.

And Maduro has severed diplomatic ties with Colombia.