La Crisis Venezolana: The Crisis in Venezuela

[Shofercia]

He's not opposing the US; he's opposing a US-backed oil-driven coup. Let's say you have a friend, Mike Smith. You know that Mike has issues with alcohol. So you tell him "Mike, I oppose you drinking" - which is not the same as opposing Mike Smith on everything.

you actually think this is a us backed coup because of oil

Not what I actually said. My point was that opposing a country is not the same as opposing an intervention of said country. I never said that the coup was because of oil... but knowing that would require more reading skills and less smiley faces.

He's not opposing the US; he's opposing a US-backed oil-driven coup. Let's say you have a friend, Mike Smith. You know that Mike has issues with alcohol. So you tell him "Mike, I oppose you drinking" - which is not the same as opposing Mike Smith on everything.

imagine thinking it's a coup over oil, and not that everyone in their right mind (and some who aren't) deciding that Maduro is really, really terrible, and replacing him with a more legitimate and sane leader will at least prevent things from getting worse in Venezuela

Replacing him how? Through military intervention?

He's not opposing the US; he's opposing a US-backed oil-driven coup. Let's say you have a friend, Mike Smith. You know that Mike has issues with alcohol. So you tell him "Mike, I oppose you drinking" - which is not the same as opposing Mike Smith on everything.

I think that's unrealistic. Putin will clearly take sides, given how dependent the Russian Vodka industry is on Mike, with over 17% of exports being Mike or friends of Mike trying to keep up with Mike. China may also come into play since Mike is the last person in the US who drinks Tsingtao.

Where are you going with this?

[Kubra]

He's not opposing the US; he's opposing a US-backed oil-driven coup. Let's say you have a friend, Mike Smith. You know that Mike has issues with alcohol. So you tell him "Mike, I oppose you drinking" - which is not the same as opposing Mike Smith on everything.

I think that's unrealistic. Putin will clearly take sides, given how dependent the Russian Vodka industry is on Mike, with over 17% of exports being Mike or friends of Mike trying to keep up with Mike. China may also come into play since Mike is the last person in the US who drinks Tsingtao.

Ok mike clearly has a drinking problem if 17% of russian vodka exports go to mike

[Thermodolia]

I think that's unrealistic. Putin will clearly take sides, given how dependent the Russian Vodka industry is on Mike, with over 17% of exports being Mike or friends of Mike trying to keep up with Mike. China may also come into play since Mike is the last person in the US who drinks Tsingtao.

Ok mike clearly has a drinking problem if 17% of russian vodka exports go to mike

I think Mike might be dead from alcohol poisoning

[Khataiy]

The sooner the Hezbollah (Party of Satan) backer Maduro is gone the better, the real question is when is operation Venezuela freedom going to commence?

[Kubra]

Ok mike clearly has a drinking problem if 17% of russian vodka exports go to mike

I think Mike might be dead from alcohol poisoning

That or "and friends" is a lot of friends
yo someone has to hook me up with Mike, his parties must be legendary

[Kowani]

I think Mike might be dead from alcohol poisoning

That or "and friends" is a lot of friends
yo someone has to hook me up with Mike, his parties must be legendary

He’s the only person who has enough to throw parties in Venezuela, of course they’d be legendary.

[Shofercia]

I gotta hand it to you guys, the way Mike evolved is hilarious.

[Yusseria]

The sooner the Hezbollah (Party of Satan) backer Maduro is gone the better, the real question is when is operation Venezuela freedom going to commence?

uh, hopefully never. intervention in Venezeula is something nobody wants. best case scenario is Maduro resigns and Guaido becomes interim president while new elections are held.

but that probably won't happen. Maduro is a socialist kleptocrat. his only interest is staying in power so he can continue to enrich himself and his cronies at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

he's pretty much the lowest form of human life.

[Phoenicaea]

^ on this side, you should avoid the worst, because in civil war all stealing and infamy may happen, other side doing this you can not stay in swamp.

because this is what the regime wishes, staying and forming a de facto balance that endures, the worst is the best for the ruling chaste. things get noisy if army stays with the party.

[Special Aromas]

The sooner the Hezbollah (Party of Satan) backer Maduro is gone the better, the real question is when is operation Venezuela freedom going to commence?

uh, hopefully never. intervention in Venezeula is something nobody wants. best case scenario is Maduro resigns and Guaido becomes interim president while new elections are held.

but that probably won't happen. Maduro is a socialist kleptocrat. his only interest is staying in power so he can continue to enrich himself and his cronies at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

he's pretty much the lowest form of human life.

Yeah but the real evil here is the guy that's calling for free elections, what a monster right?

[Novus America]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... m-colombia

The Chavistas are blocking humanitarian aid.
Of course they do not want to give up their lucrative monopoly on food and medicine distribution nor admit the aid is needed. But they do not care how many die, so long as they win.

Better news though.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... ig-numbers
Even before the recognition of Guaido thousands of soldiers were deserting.
It is possible this could end if enough of the lower ranks of the military desert or refuse to protect the Chavista narcokleptocrats.

[Yusseria]

uh, hopefully never. intervention in Venezeula is something nobody wants. best case scenario is Maduro resigns and Guaido becomes interim president while new elections are held.

but that probably won't happen. Maduro is a socialist kleptocrat. his only interest is staying in power so he can continue to enrich himself and his cronies at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

he's pretty much the lowest form of human life.

Yeah but the real evil here is the guy that's calling for free elections, what a monster right?

oh yeah? which guy is that?

[SD_Film Artists]

Better news though.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... ig-numbers
Even before the recognition of Guaido thousands of soldiers were deserting.
It is possible this could end if enough of the lower ranks of the military desert or refuse to protect the Chavista narcokleptocrats.

I wonder how long it will be until it's just the last few dozen Chavistas losing their minds in the Führerbunker.

[Novus America]

Better news though.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... ig-numbers
Even before the recognition of Guaido thousands of soldiers were deserting.
It is possible this could end if enough of the lower ranks of the military desert or refuse to protect the Chavista narcokleptocrats.

I wonder how long it will be until it's just the last few dozen Chavistas losing their minds in the Führerbunker.

Not soon enough.
Also although the military is suffering high desertion, the Chavistas have shown an amazing ability to survive despite truly historical levels of economic failures.

So I am not writing them off yet.

Plus the Chavistas have their Cuban forces and Russian mercenaries as well.
It seems the military rank and file is increasingly reluctant to kill fellow Venezuelans but the Russians of course will have no qualms slaughtering civilians.

I sincerely hope this is finally the is the beginning of th end for them, but we will have to see.

[Yusseria]

I wonder how long it will be until it's just the last few dozen Chavistas losing their minds in the Führerbunker.

Not soon enough.
Also although the military is suffering high desertion, the Chavistas have shown an amazing ability to survive despite truly historical levels of economic failures.

So I am not writing them off yet.

Plus the Chavistas have their Cuban forces and Russian mercenaries as well.
It seems the military rank and file is increasingly reluctant to kill fellow Venezuelans but the Russians of course will have no qualms slaughtering civilians.

I sincerely hope this is finally the is the beginning of th end for them, but we will have to see.

Maduro's survived by maintaining the loyalty of the military. primarily he does this by handing out high-ranking positions to his buddies. as long as they stay loyal to him it will be incredibly hard to remove Maduro.

[Novus America]

Not soon enough.
Also although the military is suffering high desertion, the Chavistas have shown an amazing ability to survive despite truly historical levels of economic failures.

So I am not writing them off yet.

Plus the Chavistas have their Cuban forces and Russian mercenaries as well.
It seems the military rank and file is increasingly reluctant to kill fellow Venezuelans but the Russians of course will have no qualms slaughtering civilians.

I sincerely hope this is finally the is the beginning of th end for them, but we will have to see.

Maduro's survived by maintaining the loyalty of the military. primarily he does this by handing out high-ranking positions to his buddies. as long as they stay loyal to him it will be incredibly hard to remove Maduro.

True, but the Chavistas are trying to paying the same number of people from a shrinking pot.
So they will still have less to pay them. So that means paying fewer people or paying the same number less.

Plus high ranking officers alone cannot do anything if the rank and file refuse to obey.
It does appear the Chavistas are no longer are able to pay enough to keep all of the lower ranks loyal.
A structure rotting from the bottom will collapse no matter how strong the top.

Still as you point out the military has for the most part stayed loyal because they got control over vast swaths of the economy to pillage.
But pillage is not sustainable forever.

They are pillaging much faster than things are produced.

If they lower ranks keep seeing fewer and fewer benefits as there is less and less to steal, I am not sure how the Chavistas will keep them loyal.

[US-SSR]

Not soon enough.
Also although the military is suffering high desertion, the Chavistas have shown an amazing ability to survive despite truly historical levels of economic failures.

So I am not writing them off yet.

Plus the Chavistas have their Cuban forces and Russian mercenaries as well.
It seems the military rank and file is increasingly reluctant to kill fellow Venezuelans but the Russians of course will have no qualms slaughtering civilians.

I sincerely hope this is finally the is the beginning of th end for them, but we will have to see.

Maduro's survived by maintaining the loyalty of the military. primarily he does this by handing out high-ranking positions to his buddies. as long as they stay loyal to him it will be incredibly hard to remove Maduro.

In addition to stars on their shoulders and scrambled eggs on their hats they need cash. The FBI just raided a Puerto Rican bank that likely funneled at least some of that cash to the Maduro regime. We'll see how loyal everybody is when they're not being juiced...

[The United Chinese Republic]

I wouldn't go as far as say that Maduro was in the right or hadn't openly flouted the constitution, but his status as one of Russia's Latin American allies means I support his continued regime. Better Maduro than an American puppet.

While I agree that Venezuela shouldn't be an American puppet, I disagree with Maduro's policies - especially making the judiciary the legislature - so Guaido it is for me.

[Special Aromas]

Maduro's survived by maintaining the loyalty of the military. primarily he does this by handing out high-ranking positions to his buddies. as long as they stay loyal to him it will be incredibly hard to remove Maduro.

True, but the Chavistas are trying to paying the same number of people from a shrinking pot.
So they will still have less to pay them. So that means paying fewer people or paying the same number less.

Plus high ranking officers alone cannot do anything if the rank and file refuse to obey.
It does appear the Chavistas are no longer are able to pay enough to keep all of the lower ranks loyal.
A structure rotting from the bottom will collapse no matter how strong the top.

Still as you point out the military has for the most part stayed loyal because they got control over vast swaths of the economy to pillage.
But pillage is not sustainable forever.

They are pillaging much faster than things are produced.

If they lower ranks keep seeing fewer and fewer benefits as there is less and less to steal, I am not sure how the Chavistas will keep them loyal.

Citgo is about to switch allegiance to the opposition in round terms. Soon the Chavistas won't have a shrinking pot to piss in.

[The of Japan]

I wouldn't go as far as say that Maduro was in the right or hadn't openly flouted the constitution, but his status as one of Russia's Latin American allies means I support his continued regime. Better Maduro than an American puppet.

While I agree that Venezuela shouldn't be an American puppet, I disagree with Maduro's policies - especially making the judiciary the legislature - so Guaido it is for me.

IT doesn't even seem like it will be an American puppet anyhow.

[Frievolk]

While I agree that Venezuela shouldn't be an American puppet, I disagree with Maduro's policies - especially making the judiciary the legislature - so Guaido it is for me.

IT doesn't even seem like it will be an American puppet anyhow.

The only people saying Guaido is an American puppet are those Russian Puppets or individuals LARPing as a Marxist-Leninist.

[The United Chinese Republic]

While I agree that Venezuela shouldn't be an American puppet, I disagree with Maduro's policies - especially making the judiciary the legislature - so Guaido it is for me.

IT doesn't even seem like it will be an American puppet anyhow.

IT doesn't even seem like it will be an American puppet anyhow.

The only people saying Guaido is an American puppet are those Russian Puppets or individuals LARPing as a Marxist-Leninist.

While I wouldn't take it that far, I do agree that it's very unlikely that Venezuela would be an American puppet. Yes, maybe quite a lot of pro-American deals, but the days of the Banana Republics are over.

[Valrifell]

IT doesn't even seem like it will be an American puppet anyhow.

The only people saying Guaido is an American puppet are those Russian Puppets or individuals LARPing as a Marxist-Leninist.

I hate how some corners of Leftist internet is full of people opposing this because something something "A dictator who largely caused the suffering of millions is vetter than AMERICA", even non-authoritarians.

I am convinced that a number of those people would support the Kim regime if it came to brass tax.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Yikes

I can’t believe it’s not a coup!^tm

Oh no. That is precisely what it is and we should have done it the moment the Chavistas seized the American Means of Production. The United States of America has a duty to protect its citizens and corporations (which are made up of citizens), including their investments, wherever they are made.

As I said again, Trump did the right thing recognizing the opposition leader as Venezuela's rightful leader and should follow it up with the assassination of Maduro. We should have done this to Chavez after he seized our Means of Production, and Venezuela is rotting because of our past inaction. It's finally time we make it right.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

Venezuela isn’t even communist let alone Marxist

DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT FAILED, IT IS CLEARLY NOT REAL MARXISM GUYS!!

I never said that Venezuela was communist. Venezuela is not a stateless, classless "utopia" where there are no poor and everything is equally distributed. It never was.

However, Vezenuela does practice a form of Socialism and they did in fact actually seize our (AMERICA'S) Means of Production. Unless you're telling me that nationalizing the oil industry doesn't count as collectivization and state administration of a key industry...