NationStates

The Black Forrest wrote:

Scomagia wrote:What if someone holds abortion (we'll say at will abortions for the sake of discussion) to be immoral but holds government restriction of abortion to be more immoral? Is that person terrible in your estimation?

Abortion debate is a tangent. The teens being a protest is simply that. The incident didn't involve the morality or lack there of in this incident.....

Short asides are definitely allowed even if they aren't directly related. It's a single question meant to clarify Ors's opinion to satisfy my curiosity. It's a question, incidentally, that had nothing to do with you.

Par Chic wrote:

Ors Might wrote:I don’t see how this is relevant. Drummer dude drummed at a bunch of kids. Rosa Parks refused to be treated as a second class citizen.

You’re being pretty damn demeaning towards the civil rights movement.

Because Native Americans have it so good....

Eh. From what I hear the Rez’s are pretty shit.

But that’s irrelevant. Drumming in someone’s face to supposedly break up a fight does nothing to advance the positions of Native Americans, even as a symbolic gesture.

Confederate States of German America wrote:

Vassenor wrote:


I can quote your posts too.

But apparently understanding them is beyond you, clearly.

Confederate States of German America wrote:
Your entire argument is this; when the evil of this was brought up, your instinctive response was to cite an example from the other side of politics rather than show a thread of human decency and categorically reject it on all grounds.

So how does that equal "X did it too so this is fine!"?

Complaining about a double standard in a response does not mean that the other side is somehow in the right.

Ors Might wrote:

Par Chic wrote:
Because Native Americans have it so good....

Eh. From what I hear the Rez’s are pretty shit.

But that’s irrelevant. Drumming in someone’s face to supposedly break up a fight does nothing to advance the positions of Native Americans, even as a symbolic gesture.

Drumming in his face? You think he was trying to intimidate the kid?

Par Chic wrote:

Scomagia wrote:You know fuck all. You're reducing them to two views that they hold, views which we've never, you know, heard the reasoning or nuance for.

You think Smirky McMagahat is capable of nuance?

You don't know anything at all about them as individuals. Grow the fuck up.

You need to calm down.

Again, your thinking would be absolutely welcome in a fascist society. "You think different? Fuck you, you're terrible!"

Because the Nazis were all about women's rights!

When it came to abortion yes, the Nazi were pro-choice for Aryan women. If they could prove that the child had some sort of defect or would be at risk for having cognitive defects.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Ors Might wrote:Eh. From what I hear the Rez’s are pretty shit.

But that’s irrelevant. Drumming in someone’s face to supposedly break up a fight does nothing to advance the positions of Native Americans, even as a symbolic gesture.

Drumming in his face? You think he was trying to intimidate the kid?

No. It was supposedly to break up a fight. If it was then it was a stupid attempt.

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:

Par Chic wrote:
Because Native Americans have it so good....

Ironically enough, still better than Canada's own indigenous folk, so sit down.

Hmmmm? We may not have had the Residential Schools.....they have had it pretty bad as compared with the rest of the country.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Ors Might wrote:Eh. From what I hear the Rez’s are pretty shit.

But that’s irrelevant. Drumming in someone’s face to supposedly break up a fight does nothing to advance the positions of Native Americans, even as a symbolic gesture.

Drumming in his face? You think he was trying to intimidate the kid?

Don't we have video now showing he wasn't drumming in his face anyway?

Idiocy as far as the eye can see...
Wow people are really dumb nowadays, automatically making a view without knowing completely what happened.
No wonder this country is in this state...
But anyways a few points to remember when discussing this topic:
1. Just because the man is a vet doesn't mean he is automatically the good guy, it is irrelevant to the argument.
2. MAGA kids had been standing at that spot for awhile waiting for a bus.
3. Black Israelites [Hate group] had been harassing the boys and saying homophobic slurs.
4. The kids had been arguing with the Black Israelites for awhile and both sides seemed to have their heels dug in
5. When the Native Americans arrived, the leader of the Black Israelites commented "Here comes our chief!"
6. The Native man walked into the group of boys, not the other way around
7. A few kids moved out of the way for the man
8. Most of the boys started dancing and clapping to the beat.
9. The Boy that is most associated with this incident [the smiling one] seemed to have taken a step forward when the drummer came.
10. Some of the boys by the end might've felt awkward. [Wouldn't you if some random dude walked up to and beat on a drum for awhile?"
11. Most of the news surrounding this event is heavily biased [towards the drummer] and outright lies.
And the last one;
12. Timcast has a great video about this that is unbiased.

Par Chic wrote:

Scomagia wrote:You know fuck all. You're reducing them to two views that they hold, views which we've never, you know, heard the reasoning or nuance for.

You think Smirky McMagahat is capable of nuance?

You don't know anything at all about them as individuals. Grow the fuck up.

You need to calm down.

Again, your thinking would be absolutely welcome in a fascist society. "You think different? Fuck you, you're terrible!"

Because the Nazis were all about women's rights!

I do think he's capable of nuance, actually, because I'm not interested in reducing those with whom I disagree to mere caricatures.

The point isn't about the specific view on abortion. Fascists would probably disagree with abortion. The point is that they would approach the discussion in the way that you are approaching it. This isn't hard to understand. Fascists tend towards exactly the style of discussion that you are presenting.

Ors Might wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Drumming in his face? You think he was trying to intimidate the kid?

No. It was supposedly to break up a fight. If it was then it was a stupid attempt.

Ok. Just checking as I have heard people saying it was to intimidate (comments I have heard....not made here).

Ors Might wrote:

Scomagia wrote:What if someone holds abortion (we'll say at will abortions for the sake of discussion) to be immoral but holds government restriction of abortion to be more immoral? Is that person terrible in your estimation?

Depends on the values that they base those positions on. For the sake of argument, we’ll say that the latter position is based upon the value that using force to make people abide by your values is wrong, meaning that they opt for discussion and persuasion for “enforcing” the former position. In which case, I’d consider them perfectly fine people based on that analysis.

Thanks for the clarification.

Vassenor wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Drumming in his face? You think he was trying to intimidate the kid?

Don't we have video now showing he wasn't drumming in his face anyway?

Six inches away is still "in his face".

The Black Forrest wrote:
Ok. Just checking as I have heard people saying it was to intimidate (comments I have heard....not made here).

Phillips said he was trying to break up a fight but the way he acted makes absolutely no sense if that was his goal. based purely off his behavior it looks he was hoping to instigate a fight.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Ors Might wrote:No. It was supposedly to break up a fight. If it was then it was a stupid attempt.

Ok. Just checking as I have heard people saying it was to intimidate (comments I have heard....not made here).

Yeah, it's stupid to say that he was trying to intimidate. Annoy? Probably. But he wasn't trying to intimidate anybody.

Des-Bal wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Ok. Just checking as I have heard people saying it was to intimidate (comments I have heard....not made here).

Phillips said he was trying to break up a fight but the way he acted makes absolutely no sense if that was his goal. based purely off his behavior it looks he was hoping to instigate a fight.

Well? I looked at the Black Hebrew video. I would say the tension levels lessened as they were definitely climbing between the teens and the bh.....

-edit-

Oh and as it being stupid? Nahh. He tried music. The only music I have seen cause violence are metal, the song Friday, and anything Barney.

The Black Forrest wrote:Well? I looked at the Black Hebrew video. I would say the tension levels lessened as they were definitely climbing between the teens and the bh.....

They did get between them but if they were trying to relax the situation they should have done it without approaching anyone and standing in the middle. If they felt the black hebrew israelites were in danger they could have stood in front of them in sort of a protective wall.

Phillips claims to have read the situation as the boys harassing a group of black men, the only reason to walk directly into the crowd of boys would be to escalate things.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Ors Might wrote:No. It was supposedly to break up a fight. If it was then it was a stupid attempt.

Ok. Just checking as I have heard people saying it was to intimidate (comments I have heard....not made here).

Eh. I can kinda see where they’d get the idea. Playing an instrument relatively close to someone’s face isn’t a typical gesture of good will.

Des-Bal wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:Well? I looked at the Black Hebrew video. I would say the tension levels lessened as they were definitely climbing between the teens and the bh.....

They did get between them but if they were trying to relax the situation they should have done it without approaching anyone and standing in the middle. If they felt the black hebrew israelites were in danger they could have stood in front of them in sort of a protective wall.

Phillips claims to have read the situation as the boys harassing a group of black men, the only reason to walk directly into the crowd of boys would be to escalate things.

His claim would actually be somewhat believable if he didn't demonstrate himself to be an annoying douche only a few days later by trying to crash Mass at the D.C. shrine.

The latter event calls into question how interested he is in not starting shit.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Des-Bal wrote:
Phillips said he was trying to break up a fight but the way he acted makes absolutely no sense if that was his goal. based purely off his behavior it looks he was hoping to instigate a fight.

Well? I looked at the Black Hebrew video. I would say the tension levels lessened as they were definitely climbing between the teens and the bh.....

-edit-

Oh and as it being stupid? Nahh. He tried music. The only music I have seen cause violence are metal, the song Friday, and anything Barney.

I don't know. I'd never start playing an instrument at someone as a gesture of peace. That's definitely something I'd do if I was trying to piss someone off, though.

Scomagia wrote:His claim would actually be somewhat believable if he didn't demonstrate himself to be an annoying douche only a few days later by trying to crash Mass at the D.C. shrine.

The latter event calls into question how interested he is in not starting shit.

If he had been spit on or pushed around by a bunch of MAGA hat wearing teenagers I'm sure showing up at the mass would have looked a lot better.

Des-Bal wrote:

Scomagia wrote:His claim would actually be somewhat believable if he didn't demonstrate himself to be an annoying douche only a few days later by trying to crash Mass at the D.C. shrine.

The latter event calls into question how interested he is in not starting shit.

If he had been spit on or pushed around by a bunch of MAGA hat wearing teenagers I'm sure showing up at the mass would have looked a lot better.

To who? It seems stupid to make a scene at a Mass regardless. It's not like the Catholics there had anything to do with the other event.

Scomagia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Well? I looked at the Black Hebrew video. I would say the tension levels lessened as they were definitely climbing between the teens and the bh.....

-edit-

Oh and as it being stupid? Nahh. He tried music. The only music I have seen cause violence are metal, the song Friday, and anything Barney.

I don't know. I'd never start playing an instrument at someone as a gesture of peace. That's definitely something I'd do if I was trying to piss someone off, though.

Oh your playing makes peoples ears bleed.

Scomagia wrote:I don't know. I'd never start playing an instrument at someone as a gesture of peace. That's definitely something I'd do if I was trying to piss someone off, though.

Drumming and chanting a song of unity make sense, approaching the belligerents didn't.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Scomagia wrote:I don't know. I'd never start playing an instrument at someone as a gesture of peace. That's definitely something I'd do if I was trying to piss someone off, though.

Oh your playing makes peoples ears bleed.

That's beside the point.

Seriously though, I just can't see why someone would think playing an instrument at someone else is going to settle tensions.