The dark side of evolution and society

[Olthar]

What's sad is that abusive people often have kids and abuse them while those who aren't abusive and are aware of the precarious situation of humanity become antinatalists, causing the former group to be larger and larger.

Since when has embarrassing your kids in front of their friends been abuse?

[Andsed]

Does anyone else think the OP is a robot? No? Just me?

[Northwest Slobovia]

The very existence of both evolution and society tends to select for irrational traits.

For example evolution does not select for organisms that treat themselves the best. Instead it tends to select for whatever traits that tend to be passed down to future generations regardless of whether such traits are beneficial to those having it. For example the genes of male praying mantises that preserve their lives instead of voluntarily submitting to brutal cannibalism are gradually removed, causing almost all male praying mantises to be essentially suicidal.

You might want to actually learn something about evolutionary biology before you embarrass yourself further displaying your ignorance of it.

Similarly due to group-level selection societies tend to cause individuals to be selectively stupid,

Ditto.

namely they want individuals to be knowledgeable enough to serve a society but not sufficiently knowledgeable that they rebel against it. Anti-intellectualism is often a result of people trying to make each other selectively stupid in order to take advantage of them.

Lemme guess, you think everybody around you is stupid?

[Neutraligon]

You might want to actually learn something about evolutionary biology before you embarrass yourself further displaying your ignorance of it.


Ditto.


Lemme guess, you think everybody around you is stupid?

Well, then please explain what you think about the phenomenon of sexual cannibalism. Evolution does not select for individuals too selfish to breed..

...how exactly would evolution occur if there are no offspring? A simplified description of evolution is the change in allele frequency over generations. You need generations for evolution to occur, which means you need life that breeds.

As to cannibalism, if the female in this case is more likely to survive due to having a food source in the male and so is more likely to actually give birth then it is very possible for this trait to occur.

[Heloin]

You might want to actually learn something about evolutionary biology before you embarrass yourself further displaying your ignorance of it.


Ditto.


Lemme guess, you think everybody around you is stupid?

Well, then please explain what you think about the phenomenon of sexual cannibalism.

What are you on about?

Evolution does not select for individuals too selfish to breed..

You really don't have any understand of what evolution is do you. Evolution is not some magical force that decides to do things, it's the process by which species change.

[Andsed]

...how exactly would evolution occur if there are no offspring? A simplified description of evolution is the change in allele frequency over generations. You need generations for evolution to occur, which means you need life that breeds.

Then evolution clearly selects against any genes that can cause an organism having them to be too selfish to breed.

That makes no sense what so ever.

[Neutraligon]

...how exactly would evolution occur if there are no offspring? A simplified description of evolution is the change in allele frequency over generations. You need generations for evolution to occur, which means you need life that breeds.

Then evolution clearly selects against any genes that can cause an organism having them to be too selfish to breed.

No...since those who do not breed means they do not have offspring which means they have nothing on which for evolution to occur.

Have you realized that sexual cannibalism is self-sacrificial and hence insane and extremely harmful from the point of view of the males?

Sure but if it perpetuates the species then it is a trait that would not be selected against.

You know what let me ask you this, what do you think evolution is and how do you think it works?

[Ifreann]

Living longer is irrational, you just have to buy more food and pay more bills.

Nope. Your money exists to serve yourself. If you die your money will be worthless to you simply because you will cease to exist as an agent. So..better save money and use it in your medical bills.

To what end? Stay alive, so I can earn money, so I can stay alive longer, so I can earn more money.

[Northwest Slobovia]

As to cannibalism, if the female in this case is more likely to survive due to having a food source in the male and so is more likely to actually give birth then it is very possible for this trait to occur.

Close enough: you get the teddy bear, not the OP.

In cold-winter areas, most adult insects die off every year. So, both mommy and daddy mantis are gonna bite it pretty soon one way or other. The only thing they can do is breed like rabbits and produce tons of eggs that can overwinter. Mommy mantis has a better chance of doing this if she's well fed.

But daddy mantis doesn't "volunteer" to die for her cause -- that's just eye-rollingly stupid -- mommy and daddy mantis are locked in a battle of sexes, or rather a battle of opposing selective pressures favoring giving "eat me!" a different meaning than we use. Daddy mantis wants to boink as many baby-momma mantises as possible to have the best chance to pass on his genes. See above for mommy mantis... and daddy is a convenient source of protein if he can't get it up, get it in, and get it out as fast as she loses interest.

Hint for the OP: ever wonder why not all species engage in sexual cannibalism?

[Neutraligon]

As to cannibalism, if the female in this case is more likely to survive due to having a food source in the male and so is more likely to actually give birth then it is very possible for this trait to occur.

Close enough: you get the teddy bear, not the OP.

In cold-winter areas, most adult insects die off every year. So, both mommy and daddy mantis are gonna bite it pretty soon one way or other. The only thing they can do is breed like rabbits and produce tons of eggs that can overwinter. Mommy mantis has a better chance of doing this if she's well fed.

But daddy mantis doesn't "volunteer" to die for her cause -- that's just eye-rollingly stupid -- mommy and daddy mantis are locked in a battle of sexes, or rather a battle of opposing selective pressures favoring giving "eat me!" a different meaning than we use. Daddy mantis wants to boink as many baby-momma mantises as possible to have the best chance to pass on his genes. See above for mommy mantis... and daddy is a convenient source of protein if he can't get it up, get it in, and get it out as fast as she loses interest.

Hint for the OP: ever wonder why not all species engage in sexual cannibalism?

True.

[Ifreann]

To what end? Stay alive, so I can earn money, so I can stay alive longer, so I can earn more money.

Yep. Take as much resources as you can so that you alone possess them.

Why?

[Heloin]

To what end? Stay alive, so I can earn money, so I can stay alive longer, so I can earn more money.

Yep. Take as much resources as you can so that you alone possess them.

That sounds like a very bleak way to live your life.

[Neutraligon]

Close enough: you get the teddy bear, not the OP.

In cold-winter areas, most adult insects die off every year. So, both mommy and daddy mantis are gonna bite it pretty soon one way or other. The only thing they can do is breed like rabbits and produce tons of eggs that can overwinter. Mommy mantis has a better chance of doing this if she's well fed.

But daddy mantis doesn't "volunteer" to die for her cause -- that's just eye-rollingly stupid -- mommy and daddy mantis are locked in a battle of sexes, or rather a battle of opposing selective pressures favoring giving "eat me!" a different meaning than we use. Daddy mantis wants to boink as many baby-momma mantises as possible to have the best chance to pass on his genes. See above for mommy mantis... and daddy is a convenient source of protein if he can't get it up, get it in, and get it out as fast as she loses interest.

Hint for the OP: ever wonder why not all species engage in sexual cannibalism?

What the fuck is breeding like rabbits good for? Is it worth dying for?!

It has an evolutionary advantage.

Will you answer the question about what you think evolution is and how it works?

[Neutraligon]

That sounds like a very bleak way to live your life.

Not really. This is really wonderful.

What's so wonderful about it?

[Andsed]

Why?

Just because you can. The endless struggle for continued existence is the natural way of life.

Or you could not be a giant dick and work to better humanity through things like charity.

[Ifreann]

Why?

Just because you can. The endless struggle for continued existence is the natural way of life.

That natural way of life for our species is to socialise, pair bond, mate, and raise our offspring for around 20 years. It is that way of life that you are arguing against.

What happened to rationality? No benefit accrues simply from possessing resources. I don't buy food just so I can have food, I buy food to eat it. I buy clothes to wear them. I buy phones to...do lots of things, phones are really multipurpose these days. It wouldn't be rational to pack my house full of phones just to own them.

[Neutraligon]

Or you could not be a giant dick and work to better humanity through things like charity.

Lol. The universe does not work like that. Better AI takeover than slave morality.

Looks at humans and charity...hmm seems to work that way to me. Looks at people who give their lives as firefighters or to save others.
As a note as social creatures there is an advantage to helping the in group.

[Ethel mermania]

Weird then how being married tends to mean you live longer.

Living longer is irrational, you just have to buy more food and pay more bills.

Funny, boy #2 was telling me the exact same thing when I said I wanted to love to 90.

[Heloin]

Or you could not be a giant dick and work to better humanity through things like charity.

Lol. The universe does not work like that. Better AI takeover than slave morality.

So how recently did you read On the Genealogy of Morality, and kinda miss Nietzsche's point.

[Neutraligon]

Lol. The universe does not work like that. Better AI takeover than slave morality.

So how recently did you read On the Genealogy of Morality, and kinda miss Nietzsche's point.

Hell I believe there are scientific experiments with various monkeys that show a basic area of morality. Morality is a bit of you scratch my back I scratch yours.

[Andsed]

Or you could not be a giant dick and work to better humanity through things like charity.

Lol. The universe does not work like that. Better AI takeover than slave morality.

Well I think the countless charity’s in the world and the many rich people who have donated millions to charity would disagree. Also what is it with you and AI?

[Ifreann]

Living longer is irrational, you just have to buy more food and pay more bills.

Funny, boy #2 was telling me the exact same thing when I said I wanted to love to 90.

See you were smart, you had kids. Now you can make them pay your bills when you're 90 and you can just go around crashing Range Rovers like Prince Phillip.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Lol. The universe does not work like that. Better AI takeover than slave morality.

Looks at humans and charity...hmm seems to work that way to me. Looks at people who give their lives as firefighters or to save others.
As a note as social creatures there is an advantage to helping the in group.

Indeed; that it might be genetic, and thus subject to natural selection, is something we've been kicking around since Darwin first started noodling about how evolution works.

For the OP: if altruism -- or in fact, any number of pro-social behaviors -- is genetic and heritable, it spreads through a population like wildfire, because people like being around people who will be nice to them... and sometimes, nice guys finish first. Or at least get a lot of time in the sack with nice girls.

[Neutraligon]

Looks at humans and charity...hmm seems to work that way to me. Looks at people who give their lives as firefighters or to save others.
As a note as social creatures there is an advantage to helping the in group.

Indeed; that it might be genetic, and thus subject to natural selection, is something we've been kicking around since Darwin first started noodling about how evolution works.

For the OP: if altruism -- or in fact, any number of pro-social behaviors -- is genetic and heritable, it spreads through a population like wildfire, because people like being around people who will be nice to them... and sometimes, nice guys finish first. Or at least get a lot of time in the sack with nice girls.

This is an interesting talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqT ... hannel=TED

[Northwest Slobovia]

Close enough: you get the teddy bear, not the OP.

In cold-winter areas, most adult insects die off every year. So, both mommy and daddy mantis are gonna bite it pretty soon one way or other. The only thing they can do is breed like rabbits and produce tons of eggs that can overwinter. Mommy mantis has a better chance of doing this if she's well fed.

But daddy mantis doesn't "volunteer" to die for her cause -- that's just eye-rollingly stupid -- mommy and daddy mantis are locked in a battle of sexes, or rather a battle of opposing selective pressures favoring giving "eat me!" a different meaning than we use. Daddy mantis wants to boink as many baby-momma mantises as possible to have the best chance to pass on his genes. See above for mommy mantis... and daddy is a convenient source of protein if he can't get it up, get it in, and get it out as fast as she loses interest.

Hint for the OP: ever wonder why not all species engage in sexual cannibalism?

What the fuck is breeding like rabbits good for? Is it worth dying for?!

Emphasis added.