Leftist Militias: Should Liberals Be Pro-Second Amendment?

[Torrocca]

Maybe we should stop equating Liberals with the entirety of Leftism.

The left in this country, then.

At least the ones that matter at all.

Maybe we should stop equating Liberals with the entirety of Leftism, especially on a country-by-country basis.

[Senkaku]

*weimar-era vibes intensify*

[Ardoki]

LGBT+ and PoC self-defense groups, gun clubs and even militas already exist (Pink Pistols are a notable example), yet their membership numbers are a drop in the ocean of right-wing militias.

Don't you want to protect your own damn lives!?

Maybe the left should stop demonizing guns and gun owners then.

Civilian gun ownership is bad though. Only the state should have them (and I guess like security companies and stuff).

As a social democrat, I am opposed mass shootings and gun crime.

[Valrifell]

LGBT+ and PoC self-defense groups, gun clubs and even militas already exist (Pink Pistols are a notable example), yet their membership numbers are a drop in the ocean of right-wing militias.

Don't you want to protect your own damn lives!?

Maybe the left should stop demonizing guns and gun owners then.

If you don't think the NRA makes you lot sound and look like a buncha loons, well...

[Torrocca]

Maybe the left should stop demonizing guns and gun owners then.

Civilian gun ownership is bad though. Only the state should have them (and I guess like security companies and stuff).

As a social democrat, I am opposed mass shootings and gun crime.

Civil ownership is not only good, it's a necessity to ensure a prevention of tyranny. HOWEVER, with that in mind, shit like responsibility training and safety should be enforced to ensure all gun ownership is, y'know, responsible and safe for the average person. In addition to that, shit like healthcare and socioeconomic factors and the like absolutely need to be addressed to decrease the incentives behind murder as much as possible.

[Ardoki]

Civilian gun ownership is bad though. Only the state should have them (and I guess like security companies and stuff).

As a social democrat, I am opposed mass shootings and gun crime.

Civil ownership is not only good, it's a necessity to ensure a prevention of tyranny. HOWEVER, with that in mind, shit like responsibility training and safety should be enforced to ensure all gun ownership is, y'know, responsible and safe for the average person. In addition to that, shit like healthcare and socioeconomic factors and the like absolutely need to be addressed to decrease the incentives behind murder as much as possible.

That in no way will stop tyranny. A bunch of disorganised gun owners stand no chance against the military, or even just the police. There is no valid reason for civilians to own guns.

[Valrifell]

Civil ownership is not only good, it's a necessity to ensure a prevention of tyranny. HOWEVER, with that in mind, shit like responsibility training and safety should be enforced to ensure all gun ownership is, y'know, responsible and safe for the average person. In addition to that, shit like healthcare and socioeconomic factors and the like absolutely need to be addressed to decrease the incentives behind murder as much as possible.

That in no way will stop tyranny. A bunch of disorganised gun owners stand no chance against the military, or even just the police. There is no valid reason for civilians to own guns.

A disorganized militia can quickly become a fearsome force, I thought Vietnam was supposed to be a lesson.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Maybe the left should stop demonizing guns and gun owners then.

Civilian gun ownership is bad though. Only the state should have them (and I guess like security companies and stuff).

As a social democrat, I am opposed mass shootings and gun crime.

That’s a good recipe for the government to impose its will on the workers that you’re attempting to protect. Civilian gun ownership is the most effective way of resisting force from economic elites. By severely restricting gun ownership to only state officials and private security firms, you’re effectively handing over all power to the elite and trusting them to not abuse it.

[Ardoki]

That in no way will stop tyranny. A bunch of disorganised gun owners stand no chance against the military, or even just the police. There is no valid reason for civilians to own guns.

A disorganized militia can quickly become a fearsome force, I thought Vietnam was supposed to be a lesson.

Not when you can be bombed from the sky by a drone. When martial law is declared and tanks and soldiers patrol your neighbourhood. Or when your relatives are arrested. Or when all your assets are seized. Or when your electricity, water, gas, and Internet are cut off. Etcetera.

[West Leas Oros 2]

That in no way will stop tyranny. A bunch of disorganised gun owners stand no chance against the military, or even just the police. There is no valid reason for civilians to own guns.

A disorganized militia can quickly become a fearsome force, I thought Vietnam was supposed to be a lesson.

Or basically every successful revolution in human history...

[Ardoki]

Civilian gun ownership is bad though. Only the state should have them (and I guess like security companies and stuff).

As a social democrat, I am opposed mass shootings and gun crime.

That’s a good recipe for the government to impose its will on the workers that you’re attempting to protect. Civilian gun ownership is the most effective way of resisting force from economic elites. By severely restricting gun ownership to only state officials and private security firms, you’re effectively handing over all power to the elite and trusting them to not abuse it.

I live in Australia. We have far more freedom and far few mass shootings than America.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

That’s a good recipe for the government to impose its will on the workers that you’re attempting to protect. Civilian gun ownership is the most effective way of resisting force from economic elites. By severely restricting gun ownership to only state officials and private security firms, you’re effectively handing over all power to the elite and trusting them to not abuse it.

Oppress the workers, give them guns, see how it works out
Wait, what happened in Russia and China again?

[West Leas Oros 2]

That’s a good recipe for the government to impose its will on the workers that you’re attempting to protect. Civilian gun ownership is the most effective way of resisting force from economic elites. By severely restricting gun ownership to only state officials and private security firms, you’re effectively handing over all power to the elite and trusting them to not abuse it.

I live in Australia. We have far more freedom and far few mass shootings than America.

Fair enough. But every country is different, and in America, it would be much more likely to backfire, no pun intended.

[Valrifell]

A disorganized militia can quickly become a fearsome force, I thought Vietnam was supposed to be a lesson.

Or basically every successful revolution in human history...

The United States is a really good offhand example of a militia being trained into a good fighting force.

A disorganized militia can quickly become a fearsome force, I thought Vietnam was supposed to be a lesson.

Not when you can be bombed from the sky by a drone. When martial law is declared and tanks and soldiers patrol your neighbourhood. Or when your relatives are arrested. Or when all your assets are seized. Or when your electricity, water, gas, and Internet are cut off. Etcetera.

Revolutionaries are never quite the well off ones, you understand. They have guns to seize those means to keep existing and the drone thing exists in much the same infrastructure that is currently already lucrative for Revolutionaries to fuck up, so that's a threat comparable to regular bombing raids.

[Valrifell]

That’s a good recipe for the government to impose its will on the workers that you’re attempting to protect. Civilian gun ownership is the most effective way of resisting force from economic elites. By severely restricting gun ownership to only state officials and private security firms, you’re effectively handing over all power to the elite and trusting them to not abuse it.

I live in Australia. We have far more freedom

(no you don't)

[West Leas Oros 2]

That’s a good recipe for the government to impose its will on the workers that you’re attempting to protect. Civilian gun ownership is the most effective way of resisting force from economic elites. By severely restricting gun ownership to only state officials and private security firms, you’re effectively handing over all power to the elite and trusting them to not abuse it.

Oppress the workers, give them guns, see how it works out
Wait, what happened in Russia and China again?

>implying that the Russian and Chinese Revolutions weren’t beneficial

[Torrocca]

Civil ownership is not only good, it's a necessity to ensure a prevention of tyranny. HOWEVER, with that in mind, shit like responsibility training and safety should be enforced to ensure all gun ownership is, y'know, responsible and safe for the average person. In addition to that, shit like healthcare and socioeconomic factors and the like absolutely need to be addressed to decrease the incentives behind murder as much as possible.

That in no way will stop tyranny. A bunch of disorganised gun owners stand no chance against the military,

Guerrilla movements can be quite a fearsome thing over time.

or even just the police.

There's a reason the police are rapidly militarizing in America.

There is no valid reason for civilians to own guns.

There's plenty of valid reasons even beyond the idea that there should be an armed civilian presence that can combat a state's potential for tyranny. Plenty of people need to hunt for survival, for starters, for reasons such as being physically isolated from a greater part of society or so on. There's places that people live that are dangerous enough to warrant a strong means of self-defense, which is extremely more affordable than the oft-touted, "why don't they just move to a better place?" Having a gun makes it easier for parents, too, to teach their children safe and responsible firearm usage and ownership. Those are just three examples, but there's plenty more.

[Ardoki]

Not when you can be bombed from the sky by a drone. When martial law is declared and tanks and soldiers patrol your neighbourhood. Or when your relatives are arrested. Or when all your assets are seized. Or when your electricity, water, gas, and Internet are cut off. Etcetera.

Revolutionaries are never quite the well off ones, you understand. They have guns to seize those means to keep existing and the drone thing exists in much the same infrastructure that is currently already lucrative for Revolutionaries to fuck up, so that's a threat comparable to regular bombing raids.

These 'revolutionaries' would be bombed to pieces before they got anywhere near any airbases.

[Ardoki]

I live in Australia. We have far more freedom

(no you don't)

Well, that might be true actually. But we have a far higher living standard, and that is what really matters.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Revolutionaries are never quite the well off ones, you understand. They have guns to seize those means to keep existing and the drone thing exists in much the same infrastructure that is currently already lucrative for Revolutionaries to fuck up, so that's a threat comparable to regular bombing raids.

These 'revolutionaries' would be bombed to pieces before they got anywhere near any airbases.

You have a really piss poor understanding of how guerilla warfare works lol

[Valrifell]

(no you don't)

Well, that might be true actually. But we have a far higher living standard, and that is what really matters.

I mean, no, but I suppose if it helps you sleep at night.

Though I would recommend just trying some kind of medication instead.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Revolutionaries are never quite the well off ones, you understand. They have guns to seize those means to keep existing and the drone thing exists in much the same infrastructure that is currently already lucrative for Revolutionaries to fuck up, so that's a threat comparable to regular bombing raids.

These 'revolutionaries' would be bombed to pieces before they got anywhere near any airbases.

Except that revolutionaries have in fact done exactly what Valrifell is describing, and in fact succeeded? What you are describing is objectively wrong, when analyzed from a historical and tactical standpoint.

[Ardoki]

That in no way will stop tyranny. A bunch of disorganised gun owners stand no chance against the military,

Guerrilla movements can be quite a fearsome thing over time.

or even just the police.

There's a reason the police are rapidly militarizing in America.

There is no valid reason for civilians to own guns.

There's plenty of valid reasons even beyond the idea that there should be an armed civilian presence that can combat a state's potential for tyranny. Plenty of people need to hunt for survival, for starters, for reasons such as being physically isolated from a greater part of society or so on. There's places that people live that are dangerous enough to warrant a strong means of self-defense, which is extremely more affordable than the oft-touted, "why don't they just move to a better place?" Having a gun makes it easier for parents, too, to teach their children safe and responsible firearm usage and ownership. Those are just three examples, but there's plenty more.

I can't see guerrilla movements in developed countries happening any time soon, save an apocalypse of some sort. The armed forces of developed countries have great equipment, great infrastructure, great organisation, great communication, and great command. Any rebel force will be crushed in short order.

[Ardoki]

These 'revolutionaries' would be bombed to pieces before they got anywhere near any airbases.

Except that revolutionaries have in fact done exactly what Valrifell is describing, and in fact succeeded? What you are describing is objectively wrong, when analyzed from a historical and tactical standpoint.

Not if the military bombs all areas where the rebels could be hiding or getting support from.

[Valrifell]

Revolutionaries are never quite the well off ones, you understand. They have guns to seize those means to keep existing and the drone thing exists in much the same infrastructure that is currently already lucrative for Revolutionaries to fuck up, so that's a threat comparable to regular bombing raids.

These 'revolutionaries' would be bombed to pieces before they got anywhere near any airbases.

Drones still have to refuel and rearm themselves after every go around, this and other related infrastructure would be very popular targets for Revolutionary forces which would severely limit the capabilities for drones to be used.