Leftist Militias: Should Liberals Be Pro-Second Amendment?

[Torrocca]

You're saying that telling people - who are entirely unsure about something - that dead children mean less than that something existing doesn't actually win those people over?!

Pfft, what a bunch of hippie liberal commie malarkey.

They have a point. To place the lives of children above rights in every case would mean peohibiting anything that has the potential to kill children.

There's a difference between a point being valid and presenting that point in such a way that it diminishes the entire defense of the 2A by making gun-owners look like crazy, fanatical assholes.

That's why you break out the good ol' Sun Tzu and bamboozle them every step of the way :3

You need discipline and training for that, and rabble lacks it.

That's why America lost the Revolutionary War and the French revolutionaries lost shortly thereafter, amirite?

[Aellex]

They have a point. To place the lives of children above rights in every case would mean peohibiting anything that has the potential to kill children.

There's a difference between a point being valid and presenting that point in such a way that it diminishes the entire defense of the 2A by making gun-owners look like crazy, fanatical assholes.

You need discipline and training for that, and rabble lacks it.

That's why America lost the Revolutionary War and the French revolutionaries lost shortly thereafter, amirite?

America won the independence war because we kept on arming and training them until it lead us to bankruptcy just to fuck with the Brits.
Revolutionaries won because most of the officer corps were nationalists and had no qualm abandoning the royalist cause when the King betrayed his nation.

Don't forget Napoléon cleaned the streets of Paris with grapeshot.

[Torrocca]

There's a difference between a point being valid and presenting that point in such a way that it diminishes the entire defense of the 2A by making gun-owners look like crazy, fanatical assholes.



That's why America lost the Revolutionary War and the French revolutionaries lost shortly thereafter, amirite?

America won the independence war because we kept on arming and training them until it lead us to bankruptcy just to fuck with the Brits.
Revolutionaries won because most of the officer corps were nationalists and had no qualm abandoning the royalist cause when the King betrayed his nation.

Don't forget Napoléon cleaned the streets of Paris with grapeshot.

All the same, you act like it's suddenly impossible for revolutionaries to organize and be effective today even though they've proven numerous times in the past that that's not an impossibility.

[Aellex]

America won the independence war because we kept on arming and training them until it lead us to bankruptcy just to fuck with the Brits.
Revolutionaries won because most of the officer corps were nationalists and had no qualm abandoning the royalist cause when the King betrayed his nation.

Don't forget Napoléon cleaned the streets of Paris with grapeshot.

All the same, you act like it's suddenly impossible for revolutionaries to organize and be effective today even though they've proven numerous times in the past that that's not an impossibility.

Well yeah. That's pretty much a given.
If no one from the regular army defect, you're going to get yourself fucked hard because you will lack drastically in weapons, training and strategy.

[Torrocca]

All the same, you act like it's suddenly impossible for revolutionaries to organize and be effective today even though they've proven numerous times in the past that that's not an impossibility.

Well yeah. That's pretty much a given.
If no one from the regular army defect, you're going to get yourself fucked hard because you will lack drastically in weapons, training and strategy.

Now that bit about no army defectors is gonna be a real impossibility in an actual, genuine revolution.

[Frievolk]

They have a point. To place the lives of children above rights in every case would mean peohibiting anything that has the potential to kill children.

There's a difference between a point being valid and presenting that point in such a way that it diminishes the entire defense of the 2A by making gun-owners look like crazy, fanatical assholes.

You need discipline and training for that, and rabble lacks it.

That's why America lost the Revolutionary War and the French revolutionaries lost shortly thereafter, amirite?

I mean it's not like the Americans weren't being supported, armed, funded, and trained into shape all through the Revolutionary War (by multiple parties, in multiple degrees). The Minutemen that got into the Battle of Lexington and Concord weren't necessarily the same as the Continental Army that secured the independence of the United States.

And regarding France, those bastards pretty much changed the very laws of warfare in their revolution (and immediate aftermath of world war). To call them "a rabble" at any point after 1789 is a bit of disservice imo.

[Aellex]

Well yeah. That's pretty much a given.
If no one from the regular army defect, you're going to get yourself fucked hard because you will lack drastically in weapons, training and strategy.

Now that bit about no army defectors is gonna be a real impossibility in an actual, genuine revolution.

Yeah but the point is that you aren't going to get an "actual, genuine revolution" in the western world today.

[Torrocca]

There's a difference between a point being valid and presenting that point in such a way that it diminishes the entire defense of the 2A by making gun-owners look like crazy, fanatical assholes.



That's why America lost the Revolutionary War and the French revolutionaries lost shortly thereafter, amirite?

I mean it's not like the Americans weren't being supported, armed, funded, and trained into shape all through the Revolutionary War (by multiple parties, in multiple degrees). The Minutemen that got into the Battle of Lexington and Concord weren't necessarily the same as the Continental Army that secured the independence of the United States.

The Minutemen did win their engagement at Lexington and Concord, though. The militias also tore the shit outta the British at Breed's Hill, let's not forget.

But, regardless of that, that was kinda my point, in a weird way: a revolutionary force isn't gonna stay a rabble except in the weirdest of circumstances.

And regarding France, those bastards pretty much changed the very laws of warfare in their revolution (and immediate aftermath of world war). To call them "a rabble" at any point after 1789 is a bit of disservice imo.

Ye. They got, like, 40% of France's 1800 generation's male population slaughtered in the Napoleonic Wars with the shit they did.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Now that bit about no army defectors is gonna be a real impossibility in an actual, genuine revolution.

Yeah but the point is that you aren't going to get an "actual, genuine revolution" in the western world today.

It’d have to essentially be so massive that the government physically couldn’t put it down, as well as popular enough to split the military enough that the full might of a modern military couldn’t crash down on it
In other words I’d doubt it’d happen

[Torrocca]

Now that bit about no army defectors is gonna be a real impossibility in an actual, genuine revolution.

Yeah but the point is that you aren't going to get an "actual, genuine revolution" in the western world today.

Oh, please. It can happy anywhere, anytime, under the right circumstances. The western world isn't some enigma that's 100% guaranteed to be safe from that.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yeah but the point is that you aren't going to get an "actual, genuine revolution" in the western world today.

Oh, please. It can happy anywhere, anytime, under the right circumstances. The western world isn't some enigma that's 100% guaranteed to be safe from that.

I hope the American rebels are ready to take down the flying death robots with missles

[Torrocca]

Oh, please. It can happy anywhere, anytime, under the right circumstances. The western world isn't some enigma that's 100% guaranteed to be safe from that.

I hope the American rebels are ready to take down the flying death robots with missles

You wouldn't have to kill the drones themselves, just take out their ability to refuel and rearm.

[Frievolk]

I mean it's not like the Americans weren't being supported, armed, funded, and trained into shape all through the Revolutionary War (by multiple parties, in multiple degrees). The Minutemen that got into the Battle of Lexington and Concord weren't necessarily the same as the Continental Army that secured the independence of the United States.

The Minutemen did win their engagement at Lexington and Concord, though. The militias also tore the shit outta the British at Breed's Hill, let's not forget.

But, regardless of that, that was kinda my point, in a weird way: a revolutionary force isn't gonna stay a rabble except in the weirdest of circumstances.

Yeah, but only in situations where it ends up into an actual war. Most revolutions don't end into civil wars like Russia did, nor do they result in foreign intervention to the scale of the American war for Independence or the French Revolutionary wars.

And regarding France, those bastards pretty much changed the very laws of warfare in their revolution (and immediate aftermath of world war). To call them "a rabble" at any point after 1789 is a bit of disservice imo.

Ye. They got, like, 40% of France's 1800 generation's male population slaughtered in the Napoleonic Wars with the shit they did.

I mean that's probably what's going to happen when you start a levee en masse. You send in people who're not a standing, professional military and you'll lose them until you get it right.

[Torrocca]

The Minutemen did win their engagement at Lexington and Concord, though. The militias also tore the shit outta the British at Breed's Hill, let's not forget.

But, regardless of that, that was kinda my point, in a weird way: a revolutionary force isn't gonna stay a rabble except in the weirdest of circumstances.

Yeah, but only in situations where it ends up into an actual war. Most revolutions don't end into civil wars like Russia did, nor do they result in foreign intervention to the scale of the American war for Independence or the French Revolutionary wars.

True.

Ye. They got, like, 40% of France's 1800 generation's male population slaughtered in the Napoleonic Wars with the shit they did.

I mean that's probably what's going to happen when you start a levee en masse. You send in people who're not a standing, professional military and you'll lose them until you get it right.

Ye, France really fucked up there tbh.

[Aellex]

Yeah but the point is that you aren't going to get an "actual, genuine revolution" in the western world today.

Oh, please. It can happy anywhere, anytime, under the right circumstances. The western world isn't some enigma that's 100% guaranteed to be safe from that.

It's not an enigma no but it's safe from that indeed.
Revolutions ain't happening here now anymore.

[Menorica]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_Revolt

As a pro-gun liberal, I was curious about whether there existed a counter to right-wing militias, and, sure enough, there are indeed a few groups. However, these groups are nowhere near as numerous as the 689 current active anti-government paramilitary groups (that curiously peaked during the Obama administration).

I studied the Redneck Revolt specifically, and they seemed, frankly, a little silly, though I appreciate that their mission is rather clear and concise. At the end of the day, though, they're one group, and a group with a frankly suspicious name.

After all, you know who else loves the color red? That's right. Communists and socialists. Yes, considering it's quite possible that the Redneck Revolt is a possibly Communist group, I have decided to ask myself, and therefore NSG, the question: should the left begin to arm itself in response to the increased presence of anti-government right wing militias, without espousing far-left ideals?

As a pro-gun liberal, I personally don't think it would be a... Terrible idea, just one that could easily get out of control, since private militias are a bad idea in general, especially when they're full of paranoid survivalists who are fond of self-fulfilling prophecies (I mean obviously the government is unreliable and oppressive: they panic and increase security when they're attacked by terrorists/"freedom fighters" like the Sovereign Citizen Movement and the fucking Bundinistas).

I have also noticed that quite a large number of liberals are anti-gun/Second Amendment. Granted, I realize that the evidence against the Second Amendment is there, however, I find it highly unlikely that the Second Amendment is ever going to be struck down... Enough that I refuse to compromise the rest of my political beliefs in favor of it.

At the same time, however... Is it a good idea to be pro-Second Amendment? Does the Second Amendment advocate a state-funded militia, or private militias? Should liberals bear arms, or is that counter-productive, both towards national and local safety and crime safety? Are leftist militias a concept that is too far-left?

..... We are pro-Second Amendment, It's just we dislike the behavioral matters of a gun in the wrong hands, And how Gun Control in the United States is sincerely broken, America has to be the only nation on Earth to have SO MANY Mass Shootings, It's better to be safe than sorry; wounding up DEAD by a mass shooter. The reason why we fault the NRA (National Rifle Association) is because of the illegal proceedings that's been happening, i.e the Las Vegas Shooter (Who i hope is burning in Hell right now) had an AR-15 and Bumpstacks, He ruined a perfectly safe (and fun) concert because of his hate against Civilization. This was all planned, He killed himself avoiding to be arrested by the cops, Another reason is the YouTube Headquarters; Many workers down at the HQ were unarmed, And had no way of staying survived except getting under a desk and hoping to live to see another day. I could use Nikolas Cruz as a great example as he was registered in the NRA, He might've had a similarity of a pistol but it looks like not according to this video as he was shown walking down the hallways with a rifle in his hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE20SR_wVzA My next proof of argument is George H.W. Bush's resignation of the NRA, Yes that's right, Former President George H.W. Bush was an NRA member, He dropped out as a longtime member because he was ashamed of what the NRA is putting their reputation in today, Most Trump Supporters are now NRA supporters, While normal citizens aren't, The Military actually thinks it's rather safe for an experienced defender (soldier) to be in charge with a rifle than a normal American citizen as they are more tolerant than a average 2A Supporter. My last argument would be --- NRA 2A Trump Supporters, It really does look like most NRA supporters are call MAGA Trump Supporters, As everytime i come across one they either say 2A or NRA, While i am mentioning this, Just a few months ago, I was talking to a REAL NRA Supporter that is a Trump Supporter, on Twitter, The name will be disclosed and the gender will be disclosed due to privacy, But anyway the person said some very awful things but what really shocked me the most was that the person sent multiple tweets explaining that the person likes to use a rifle against nature, Instead of doing it the classic way like trying to get dinner, The person just does it for joy - Making me extremely angry out of shock because of such animal abusive behavior the person would do such to, Yes if you are wondering i did report the tweets to Twitter immediately. No i am not making this up, I am very serious as a tornado on this one. By the way, Sandy Hook Shooting & Charleston Church Shooting is also an example of how messed up Gun Control is in the United States may i add. We want the protection and security against people who would want to kill us with bullets, But we don't want things to get out of hand and for them to attack and kill people just because of their hate against them.

[Ors Might]

Oh, please. It can happy anywhere, anytime, under the right circumstances. The western world isn't some enigma that's 100% guaranteed to be safe from that.

I hope the American rebels are ready to take down the flying death robots with missles

Unless the military gains leadership actually dumber than Trump, I somehow doubt that they’re gonna take missiles to a fair chunk of American infrastructure.

[Kernen]

I hope the American rebels are ready to take down the flying death robots with missles

Unless the military gains leadership actually dumber than Trump, I somehow doubt that they’re gonna take missiles to a fair chunk of American infrastructure.

And therein lies the key advantage to a US insurrection. Any attempt to escalate force will wound them as much as it will wound an insurgency. Physically, politically, doesn't matter.

[Settrah]

Yeah but the point is that you aren't going to get an "actual, genuine revolution" in the western world today.

Oh, please. It can happy anywhere, anytime, under the right circumstances. The western world isn't some enigma that's 100% guaranteed to be safe from that.

Except no one can agree universally on what their revolution will even lead to, let alone what they are even revolting from.

No it isn't immune from revolution but with discourse and paradigms growing, distinctions between definitions and outlooks are blurred and 'solidarities' are circumstantial at best. So if a revolution was to occur, it would soon probably fail.

[Ors Might]

Unless the military gains leadership actually dumber than Trump, I somehow doubt that they’re gonna take missiles to a fair chunk of American infrastructure.

And therein lies the key advantage to a US insurrection. Any attempt to escalate force will wound them as much as it will wound an insurgency. Physically, politically, doesn't matter.

Any successful put down of an American revolution will have to rely on ground troops. Which poses a problem for the government, depending on how many servicemen side with the insurrection.

[Grinning Dragon]

And therein lies the key advantage to a US insurrection. Any attempt to escalate force will wound them as much as it will wound an insurgency. Physically, politically, doesn't matter.

Any successful put down of an American revolution will have to rely on ground troops. Which poses a problem for the government, depending on how many servicemen side with the insurrection.

Well there is always going to be defectors, the question is at what percent would defect, and I suspect it would all depend on the situation and or if the reason is justified for an armed insurrection against ones own govt.

[Saiwania]

Most left wingers can't fight like right wingers can (even if armed), generally speaking. This is my belief. In the vast majority of all engagements in Wiemar Germany, the Roter Frontkämpferbund was no match for the Sturmabteilung. If many examples can be found of left wingers defeating right wingers with ease, people can call me Garcia.

[Merica ball]

Armed Militias during peace time are a threat to a peaceful stable society and are undemocratic. The 2nd Amendment allows for the formation of Militia's for the defense of the nation, not so that people can play wannabe revolutionary or vigilante. The only time a citizen militia should be formed is in times of war, civil war, or if its for civil resistance against a tyranical government or occupying power. Otherwise, its no better than a gang or mafia.

I personally don't agree, armed citizens and militias are a deterrent for a would be teranical ruler. It's a simple fact that the first thing all tirants do is disarm the people. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro they all disarmed there people so they couldn't fight back. If people have to start a milita when they realize that there leader is a tirant it's too late. So I think everyone should be pro second amendment.

[Torrocca]

Most left wingers can't fight like right wingers can (even if armed), generally speaking.

It took Fascists with aerial and numerical superiority four whole years to defeat disunited leftist militias in Catalonia.

[Len Hyet]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_Revolt

As a pro-gun liberal, I was curious about whether there existed a counter to right-wing militias, and, sure enough, there are indeed a few groups. However, these groups are nowhere near as numerous as the 689 current active anti-government paramilitary groups (that curiously peaked during the Obama administration).

I studied the Redneck Revolt specifically, and they seemed, frankly, a little silly, though I appreciate that their mission is rather clear and concise. At the end of the day, though, they're one group, and a group with a frankly suspicious name.

After all, you know who else loves the color red? That's right. Communists and socialists. Yes, considering it's quite possible that the Redneck Revolt is a possibly Communist group, I have decided to ask myself, and therefore NSG, the question: should the left begin to arm itself in response to the increased presence of anti-government right wing militias, without espousing far-left ideals?

As a pro-gun liberal, I personally don't think it would be a... Terrible idea, just one that could easily get out of control, since private militias are a bad idea in general, especially when they're full of paranoid survivalists who are fond of self-fulfilling prophecies (I mean obviously the government is unreliable and oppressive: they panic and increase security when they're attacked by terrorists/"freedom fighters" like the Sovereign Citizen Movement and the fucking Bundinistas).

I have also noticed that quite a large number of liberals are anti-gun/Second Amendment. Granted, I realize that the evidence against the Second Amendment is there, however, I find it highly unlikely that the Second Amendment is ever going to be struck down... Enough that I refuse to compromise the rest of my political beliefs in favor of it.

At the same time, however... Is it a good idea to be pro-Second Amendment? Does the Second Amendment advocate a state-funded militia, or private militias? Should liberals bear arms, or is that counter-productive, both towards national and local safety and crime safety? Are leftist militias a concept that is too far-left?

..... We are pro-Second Amendment, It's just we dislike the behavioral matters of a gun in the wrong hands, And how Gun Control in the United States is sincerely broken, America has to be the only nation on Earth to have SO MANY Mass Shootings, It's better to be safe than sorry; wounding up DEAD by a mass shooter. The reason why we fault the NRA (National Rifle Association) is because of the illegal proceedings that's been happening, i.e the Las Vegas Shooter (Who i hope is burning in Hell right now) had an AR-15 and Bumpstacks, He ruined a perfectly safe (and fun) concert because of his hate against Civilization. This was all planned, He killed himself avoiding to be arrested by the cops, Another reason is the YouTube Headquarters; Many workers down at the HQ were unarmed, And had no way of staying survived except getting under a desk and hoping to live to see another day. I could use Nikolas Cruz as a great example as he was registered in the NRA, He might've had a similarity of a pistol but it looks like not according to this video as he was shown walking down the hallways with a rifle in his hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE20SR_wVzA My next proof of argument is George H.W. Bush's resignation of the NRA, Yes that's right, Former President George H.W. Bush was an NRA member, He dropped out as a longtime member because he was ashamed of what the NRA is putting their reputation in today, Most Trump Supporters are now NRA supporters, While normal citizens aren't, The Military actually thinks it's rather safe for an experienced defender (soldier) to be in charge with a rifle than a normal American citizen as they are more tolerant than a average 2A Supporter. My last argument would be --- NRA 2A Trump Supporters, It really does look like most NRA supporters are call MAGA Trump Supporters, As everytime i come across one they either say 2A or NRA, While i am mentioning this, Just a few months ago, I was talking to a REAL NRA Supporter that is a Trump Supporter, on Twitter, The name will be disclosed and the gender will be disclosed due to privacy, But anyway the person said some very awful things but what really shocked me the most was that the person sent multiple tweets explaining that the person likes to use a rifle against nature, Instead of doing it the classic way like trying to get dinner, The person just does it for joy - Making me extremely angry out of shock because of such animal abusive behavior the person would do such to, Yes if you are wondering i did report the tweets to Twitter immediately. No i am not making this up, I am very serious as a tornado on this one. By the way, Sandy Hook Shooting & Charleston Church Shooting is also an example of how messed up Gun Control is in the United States may i add. We want the protection and security against people who would want to kill us with bullets, But we don't want things to get out of hand and for them to attack and kill people just because of their hate against them.

Can anyone parse this?