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Leftist Militias: Should Liberals Be Pro-Second Amendment?

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:53 am

Valrifell wrote:Still, though, several sections of the United States are just ingrained with gun culture. There's no way to remove the arms without causing the world's largest underground gun ring.

Emphasis mine. Then don't do it, as gangs that create black markets aren't peaceful. It would be just like prohibition, only with guns instead of alcohol.

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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:55 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Valrifell wrote:Still, though, several sections of the United States are just ingrained with gun culture. There's no way to remove the arms without causing the world's largest underground gun ring.

Emphasis mine. Then don't do it, as gangs that create black markets aren't peaceful. It would be just like prohibition, only with guns instead of alcohol.


I don't want to. If I were more gung-ho about gun control I would lie low, wait for people to be less mad about the issue, and sneak some restrictions in there in 2078 or so.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:56 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Obviously it's villainy at play!

Like, don't get me wrong, I disagree with any notion of disarming the people, but Jesus fucking Christ the Liberals aren't wrong for wanting to reduce murder.

You're right, but I do not believe that putting unnecessary restrictions on law abiding gun owners is the way. Criminals last time I checked do not follow laws, and that is why they're called criminals. Let us all follow the Australian way to create a black market.


I never said it was, either.
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Arayas
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Postby Arayas » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:57 am

It's hard to form militias when your against gun rights and militarism.
And a weakling to boot
Last edited by Arayas on Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:58 am

Arayas wrote:It's hard to form militias when your against gun rights and militarism.
And a weakling to boot


>leftist revolutionaries
>against gun rights

Top fucking kek
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Frostnia
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Postby Frostnia » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:58 am

Ardoki wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:The workers should be armed. Armed workers are harder to bully than unarmed workers

Armed workers give an anti-worker government an excuse to use force against them. It's far harder for a government to explain killing unarmed workers.

Not really. A government with that much control over its populace can usually do damn well anything they want. The Nazis, Soviets, North Koreans, and Chinese got away with it after all.
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:03 am

Torrocca wrote:
Tobleste wrote:
Don't be silly. Kids die everywhere. If liberals/gun control supporters want to reduce the rate that happens at, they're obviously up to something nefarious.


Obviously it's villainy at play!

Like, don't get me wrong, I disagree with any notion of disarming the people, but Jesus fucking Christ the Liberals aren't wrong for wanting to reduce murder.


If an inconsistent stance is taken, there is most often a reason for it. Almost always this reason is either A) Ignorance, or B) some form of ulterior motive.

The opposition to gun control on the basis of reducing deaths is inconsistent, in regards to people not taking similar positions on other facets of our society which cause similar or greater death tolls. If you really only wished to reduce the gross number of people dying, you could better spend your money on campaigning for healthier diets, or highway safety, or routine prostate exams, or smoking cessation.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:24 am

Telconi wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Obviously it's villainy at play!

Like, don't get me wrong, I disagree with any notion of disarming the people, but Jesus fucking Christ the Liberals aren't wrong for wanting to reduce murder.


If an inconsistent stance is taken, there is most often a reason for it. Almost always this reason is either A) Ignorance, or B) some form of ulterior motive.

The opposition to gun control on the basis of reducing deaths is inconsistent, in regards to people not taking similar positions on other facets of our society which cause similar or greater death tolls. If you really only wished to reduce the gross number of people dying, you could better spend your money on campaigning for healthier diets, or highway safety, or routine prostate exams, or smoking cessation.


It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that they also campaign for that.
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:28 am

Torrocca wrote:
Telconi wrote:
If an inconsistent stance is taken, there is most often a reason for it. Almost always this reason is either A) Ignorance, or B) some form of ulterior motive.

The opposition to gun control on the basis of reducing deaths is inconsistent, in regards to people not taking similar positions on other facets of our society which cause similar or greater death tolls. If you really only wished to reduce the gross number of people dying, you could better spend your money on campaigning for healthier diets, or highway safety, or routine prostate exams, or smoking cessation.


It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that they also campaign for that.


Sure it is, unless you have numbers for me showing that the Brady Bunch actually donates more money to heart disease prevention than they do gun control...
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PRO:
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-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
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-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:38 am

Arayas wrote:It's hard to form militias when your against gun rights and militarism.
And a weakling to boot

Maybe if you’re a dirty liberal.
Good thing we aren’t.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:04 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Arayas wrote:It's hard to form militias when your against gun rights and militarism.
And a weakling to boot

Maybe if you’re a dirty liberal.
Good thing we aren’t.


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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:14 pm

Valrifell wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Maybe if you’re a dirty liberal.
Good thing we aren’t.


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-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
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-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:14 pm

Telconi wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that they also campaign for that.


Sure it is, unless you have numbers for me showing that the Brady Bunch actually donates more money to heart disease prevention than they do gun control...


We could always just take a look at the most donated-to charities and whatnot to figure it out. Realistically, we could argue that a decent percentage of Liberals donate to each of those moreso than they donate to gun control movements.
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
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NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:15 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Sure it is, unless you have numbers for me showing that the Brady Bunch actually donates more money to heart disease prevention than they do gun control...


We could always just take a look at the most donated-to charities and whatnot to figure it out. Realistically, we could argue that a decent percentage of Liberals donate to each of those moreso than they donate to gun control movements.


Which is entirely irrelevant to ascertaining the root cause of the organization's lobbying.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:35 pm

Telconi wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:10 pm

6 more days to take your bump-stocks on a fishing trip fellas... (I do not condone breaking the law, this is a complete joke and if you hang around any gun forums on other sites you ought to know this is a joke).

Jokes aside, still stand by the fact that every American has the good ol' second amendment to stand by. Go out there and support your local gunsmith/weapons importer!
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:58 pm

Valrifell wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Emphasis mine. Then don't do it, as gangs that create black markets aren't peaceful. It would be just like prohibition, only with guns instead of alcohol.


I don't want to. If I were more gung-ho about gun control I would lie low, wait for people to be less mad about the issue, and sneak some restrictions in there in 2078 or so.

What type of restrictions would you push for? I'm asking because the amount of restrictions pushed can vary from person to person.

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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:40 pm

Ors Might wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
That's the most unapologetically shitty argument you could ever make for gun rights. Ever.

Shitty less for truthfulness and more for god awful optics, along with a hint of dickishness.


No, it is most definitely true. You don’t get to use the victims as an excuse to take away my rights.

So I’ll say it again, my rights trump your dead. Always.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:51 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Shitty less for truthfulness and more for god awful optics, along with a hint of dickishness.


^

Chernoslavia wrote:Never cared about the opinions of sheep, let alone those who would use the death of victims to further their stupid agenda.


This shit is why pro-2A people are seen as crazy.


No they think we’re crazy no matter what facts we show them. just being pro 2A is enough to brand you a lunatic period. And these same people shouting “how many deaths until blah blah blah” would have my rights taken away (by armed force no less) and just so they can feel safe or seek the approval of others like David Hogg and that weird bald girl. As far as I’m concerned they can eat shit for all I care. Spare me the moralistic bullshit.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
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Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:52 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
^



This shit is why pro-2A people are seen as crazy.


No they think we’re crazy no matter what facts we show them.


Nah, I'm sure it's most definitely because of callous bullshit like, "my rights trump your dead."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:56 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
No they think we’re crazy no matter what facts we show them.


Nah, I'm sure it's most definitely because of callous bullshit like, "my rights trump your dead."


Well you’re wrong. Besides I know your just pretending to be pro 2a just so you can sell your idea of communism.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:58 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Nah, I'm sure it's most definitely because of callous bullshit like, "my rights trump your dead."


Well you’re wrong. Besides I know your just pretending to be pro 2a just so you can sell your idea of communism.


PFFFT, thanks for letting me know I have no reason to take you seriously.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Chernoslavia
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Founded: Jun 13, 2011
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:08 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Well you’re wrong. Besides I know your just pretending to be pro 2a just so you can sell your idea of communism.


PFFFT, thanks for letting me know I have no reason to take you seriously.


And that’s what you were doin when you tried to virtue signal just because you don’t like some slogan.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27691
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:10 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
PFFFT, thanks for letting me know I have no reason to take you seriously.


And that’s what you were doin when you tried to virtue signal just because you don’t like some slogan.


You're really not giving me any incentives here to take your position seriously, you know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6942
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:36 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
He is not exactly wrong by stating that the American liberals greatly enjoy milking the ever living shit out of the cheap argument that is "but think of the children!".

Sorry that we think you being the only country in the world to routinely kill children is a bad thing.

I could say the same about Europe due to the somewhat frequent terrorist attacks that happen there.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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