Leftist Militias: Should Liberals Be Pro-Second Amendment?

[Chernoslavia]

Uh huh.

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT ME, YOU LITTLE SHIT! I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW I GRADUATED TOP IN MY CLASS IN THE SPETSNAZ MEELEE TRAINING AND I HAVE FIFTY CONFIRMED KILLS WITH MY HANDS ALONE!
Okay, sh*tposting aside, I’ve actually been doing martial arts for years and I’m in good shape compared to a vast majority of the American population. I have already thought about what improvised non lethal weapons I could use in a fight and I’m not expecting them be as good in kickboxing as a black or brown belt that is also larger than me. Everything else aside, it’s (probably) pretty hard to beat someone with a baseball bat or knife in their hand unarmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqaj-CGjKmE

[Paddy O Fernature]

Uh huh.

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT ME, YOU LITTLE SHIT! I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW I GRADUATED TOP IN MY CLASS IN THE SPETSNAZ MEELEE TRAINING AND I HAVE FIFTY CONFIRMED KILLS WITH MY HANDS ALONE!
Okay, sh*tposting aside, I’ve actually been doing martial arts for years and I’m in good shape compared to a vast majority of the American population. I have already thought about what improvised non lethal weapons I could use in a fight and I’m not expecting them be as good in kickboxing as a black or brown belt that is also larger than me. Everything else aside, it’s (probably) pretty hard to beat someone with a baseball bat or knife in their hand unarmed.

Uh huh.

[Tobleste]

Historically, relatively few revolutions have succeeded, but I do agree that there is value in forceful changes in society. However, it can also be said that revolution is one of the less likely results of firearm use and that full access to firearms for the sake of social change has a tendency to do greater harm than good.

The good that revolutions do often has very little to do with their successes. It’s to make reforms the best option available if such chaos is to be avoided in the future.

I would argue that, while wide access to firearms doesn’t guarantee a revolution, it does make any future revolutions much more viable.

I’m not entirely sure if widespread access to firearms would do as much harm as you imply. Merely having access to something that could cause harm is not the same as having the desire to cause harm, which is a societal/psychological issue. Restrictions on gun ownership seem, from my perspective, to be built on mostly fear and the unwillingness to address the real flaws within society.

That's a logical way of looking at it but unfortunately, many Americans seem to genuinely think that they need guns because, like superheroes, only they can save the country from *insert whatever threat a particular conspiracy theory claims is about to destroy America* and the idea of a radical, armed minority actually appeals to them.

It's a cultural issue more than a logical one. America has grown used to gun violence and guns in general so it's gun culture will persist regardless of the cost because it's become so closely associated with some people's identities.

Ah, still peddling the same sourceless nonsense. I imagine it’s easy to assert that it’s the presence of guns that cause violence, instead of violence being caused by a complex set of socio-economic issues, instead of treating the opposing position with any trace of nuance.

Why find sources for people who don't care for them? You've already decided your position based on a culture largely unique to America and I've decided mine based on what is obvious to the rest of the human race. No evidence will change your mind and some arguments (e.g. gun control opponents, Flat earthers) aren't nuanced. I'm happy living somewhere with little to no gun violence and you don't seem too bothered that millions of Americans do. At least not bothered enough to risk gun access. The gap isn't down to evidence. It's that gun access for gun violence is, imo, an appalling trade off. To millions of Americans, it's a bargain.

[The Minarchy of Sylvannia]

Everyone should be pro-Second Amendment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes!

---

Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Capitalist

[Paddy O Fernature]

Why find sources for people who don't care for them? You've already decided your position based on a culture largely unique to America and I've decided mine based on what is obvious to the rest of the human race. No evidence will change your mind and some arguments (e.g. gun control opponents, Flat earthers) aren't nuanced. I'm happy living somewhere with little to no gun violence and you don't seem too bothered that millions of Americans do. At least not bothered enough to risk gun access. The gap isn't down to evidence. It's that gun access for gun violence is, imo, an appalling trade off. To millions of Americans, it's a bargain.

Oh look, this stupid argument again.

Seriously, "I'm too lazy to debate because I think you don't care" isn't a valid debate position Tobleste.

[Tobleste]

Why find sources for people who don't care for them? You've already decided your position based on a culture largely unique to America and I've decided mine based on what is obvious to the rest of the human race. No evidence will change your mind and some arguments (e.g. gun control opponents, Flat earthers) aren't nuanced. I'm happy living somewhere with little to no gun violence and you don't seem too bothered that millions of Americans do. At least not bothered enough to risk gun access. The gap isn't down to evidence. It's that gun access for gun violence is, imo, an appalling trade off. To millions of Americans, it's a bargain.

Oh look, this stupid argument again.

Seriously, "I'm too lazy to debate because I think you don't care" isn't a valid debate position Tobleste.

I wasn't aware I was in a debate or that I was obliged to say what satisfies you. I'm not on retainer for reactionnaires of this site to shout at.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I wasn't aware I was in a debate or that I was obliged to say what satisfies you. I'm not on retainer for reactionnaires of this site to shout at.

And yet, here you are posting on a debate sub forum. Expecting you to actually debate properly shouldn't be outside the realm of reasonable.

Or is it?

[Tobleste]

I wasn't aware I was in a debate or that I was obliged to say what satisfies you. I'm not on retainer for reactionnaires of this site to shout at.

And yet, here you are posting on a debate sub forum. Expecting you to actually debate properly shouldn't be outside the realm of reasonable.

Or is it?

It's a forum for general discussion. That's it. Besides, on this topic, half this site is beyond the realms of the reasonable anyway.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And yet, here you are posting on a debate sub forum. Expecting you to actually debate properly shouldn't be outside the realm of reasonable.

Or is it?

It's a forum for general discussion. That's it. Besides, on this topic, half this site is beyond the realms of the reasonable anyway.

Yes, and it's not our side given we're the ones with all the studies and sources lol.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Uh huh.

I’m not lying and if you want proof you can give me your address and maybe your credit card and some stuff.

[Paddy O Fernature]

And yet, here you are posting on a debate sub forum. Expecting you to actually debate properly shouldn't be outside the realm of reasonable.

Or is it?

It's a forum for general discussion. That's it. Besides, on this topic, half this site is beyond the realms of the reasonable anyway.

Why yes, that might be YOUR opinion on the situation and site, but you would be wrong on both accounts.

It's a forum for general discussion. That's it. Besides, on this topic, half this site is beyond the realms of the reasonable anyway.

Yes, and it's not our side given we're the ones with all the studies and sources lol.

Indeed so.

Uh huh.

I’m not lying and if you want proof you can give me your address and maybe your credit card and some stuff.

Uh huh.

[Tobleste]

It's a forum for general discussion. That's it. Besides, on this topic, half this site is beyond the realms of the reasonable anyway.

Yes, and it's not our side given we're the ones with all the studies and sources lol.

I know you think that which shows that we live in different worlds. Given that yours has all the gun violence and mine doesn't, I'm happy if you keep your guns. My only issue is the people that die because of the gun laws in the US. Though given much of the US doesn't care about that, maybe everyone should ignore it.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

I’m not lying and if you want proof you can give me your address and maybe your credit card and some stuff.

Uh huh.

Except for the credit card and address and the caps lock it’s all true. If you do that one more time, I’ll have to respond to your baiting.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Yes, and it's not our side given we're the ones with all the studies and sources lol.

I know you think that which shows that we live in different worlds.

I'd say he is right, considering you have YET to even attempt to disprove his viewpoint with actual sourced facts and not bullshit opinions....

Uh huh.

Except for the credit card and address and the caps lock it’s all true. If you do that one more time, I’ll have to respond to your baiting.

Uh huh....

Also, if you think what I am doing is baiting you, then please feel free to report me. Moderation is right here, for your convenience.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqaj-CGjKmE

If I were actual highly trained in gun disarmament, I could win if I were close enough. I’m not, as I’m not special forces, or in the military at all for that matter.

[Tobleste]

I know you think that which shows that we live in different worlds.

I'd say he is right, considering you have YET to even attempt to disprove his viewpoint with actual sourced facts and not bullshit opinions....

I'll post a link, he'll post a link that agrees with him, it continues for an hour until someone swears. There. That's how it would go.

[Paddy O Fernature]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqaj-CGjKmE

If I were actual highly trained in gun disarmament, I could win if I were close enough. I’m not, as I’m not special forces, or in the military at all for that matter.

Military disarmament technique, that's a long winded way of saying "Shooting someone."

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Also, if you think what I am doing is baiting you, then please feel free to report me. Moderation is right here, for your convenience.

Okay, you deserve it. I’m going to hit you with some of the most cancerous shit on the Internet.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I'd say he is right, considering you have YET to even attempt to disprove his viewpoint with actual sourced facts and not bullshit opinions....

I'll post a link, he'll post a link that agrees with him, it continues for an hour until someone swears. There. That's how it would go.

Get more reputable sources then.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Military disarmament technique, that's a long winded way of saying "Shooting someone."

The idea is that you don’t start with one and I never said I would fight someone with a gun only using my hands and feet.

[Tobleste]

I'd say he is right, considering you have YET to even attempt to disprove his viewpoint with actual sourced facts and not bullshit opinions....

I'll post a link, he'll post a link that agrees with him, it continues for an hour until someone swears. There. That's how it would go.

Get more reputable sources then.

"Bash your head against the wall harder".

The pro gun culture in the US is a cultural thing. Trying to change it is like trying to convert Iran to Catholicism. No amount of evidence or death would change the minds of the majority of gun control opponents on this site because those aren't factors in their opposition to gun control.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Get more reputable sources then.

"Bash your head against the wall harder".

The pro gun culture in the US is a cultural thing. Trying to change it is like trying to convert Iran to Catholicism. No amount of evidence or death would change the minds of the majority of gun control opponents on this site because those aren't factors in their opposition to gun control.

What Evidence? Please, share with the class.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Trying to change it is like trying to convert Iran to Catholicism.

Sounds fun.

[Tobleste]

Trying to change it is like trying to convert Iran to Catholicism.

Sounds fun.

Until the stoning. The sunny weather would be a nice change though.

[Imperializt Russia]

No, I don't state that they could kill 53 million with a gun, although I can see how you think I implied that. but really, I was just implying that you could just kill more people with a gun than a bow. Also, again, I guess now that I look at it, I can see how you may have thought I meant Firebombing, but even that isn't instantaneous incineration. It's just burning.

You have heard of Dresden right? The fire bombing of that city created a massive column of fire that pretty much instantly killed thousands as it pulled all oxygen from the air

In the isolated spots where firestorms formed, yes.

A far more emotive example of the suffering in Dresden would be the many thousand who died in underground bomb shelters because of smoke infiltration, oxygen loss (as you mentioned) and not fire, but heat.

I cannot remember if it was Dresden or Hamburg, but after one of the great firebombings German civil defence was still dousing the rubble one month afterwards. Because it was still too hot to pull bodies out of or even demolish.