Leftist Militias: Should Liberals Be Pro-Second Amendment?

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

You can do much worse than 5.56x45mm NATO as a general purpose cartridge. Low recoil, light in weight, sufficient terminal ballistics to cause lethal wounding within normal engagement envelopes? Accepting only soviet 5.45x39mm, I am hard pressed to devise a cartridge that competes directly with it that is not in it of itself another variation on 5.56x45mm or an esoteric experimental cartridge for an equally experimental and esoteric cartridge. Or is this 2004 again and our primary source of information is Journalists who have the same understanding of terminal ballistics as the keyboard they typed it on, and are sourced from individual soldiers who were high on Rip Its and epinephrine in a small arms engagement?

I know I’m hating on .223 and all its variations, but surely you can get better. It may be the best general purpose round of its size, but there isn’t many competitors anyway. It’s a proven fact 7.62 NATO is more lethal in comparable types. It may be heavy, but that’s what other intermediate rounds are for. I don’t like the AR design due to issues, but I have to admit it’s a good modular platform.

Meanwhile, if I buy a hundred thousand of .223 rounds and have five AR style rifles, three of which have collectible color schemes, not to mention an American flag paint job, am I automatically prepared?

No you dont even have magazines lol

No, you are wrong. What I’m missing is the 50 BMG rounds for the AR-50s.

[Puzikas]

I know I’m hating on .223 and all its variations, but surely you can get better. It may be the best general purpose round of its size, but there isn’t many competitors anyway. It’s a proven fact 7.62 NATO is more lethal in comparable types. It may be heavy, but that’s what other intermediate rounds are for. I don’t like the AR design due to issues, but I have to admit it’s a good modular platform.

The wound volume for M855A1 ball is perfectly acceptable so to cause hypovolemic shock rapidly; its actually larger than 7.62x51mm most typically, excepting specialist ammunition, principally because of the after penetration destabilization events that happen due to the geometry of the projectiles.
The exception to this is DM111 variation 7.62x51mm NATO which is notorious for producing the most grievous wounds of any military cartridge approximately ever, unfortunately its really bad at barrier penetration, an issue which its 7.62x51mm NATO cousin (M80 ball ect) did not have because its produced with proper cannalurs

Problem is that people seem to equate hunting with combat too often, 5.56x45mm and its family (Which are collectively called Small Caliber, High Velocity, or SCHVs) have the best things going for it; weight, impulse, allowance for volume of fire, and individual cartridge effectiveness.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

The wound volume for M855A1 ball is perfectly acceptable so to cause hypovolemic shock rapidly; its actually larger than 7.62x51mm most typically, excepting specialist ammunition, principally because of the after penetration destabilization events that happen due to the geometry of the projectiles.
The exception to this is DM111 variation 7.62x51mm NATO which is notorious for producing the most grievous wounds of any military cartridge approximately ever, unfortunately its really bad at barrier penetration, an issue which its 7.62x51mm NATO cousin (M80 ball ect) did not have because its produced with proper cannalurs

Problem is that people seem to equate hunting with combat too often, 5.56x45mm and its family (Which are collectively called Small Caliber, High Velocity, or SCHVs) have the best things going for it; weight, impulse, allowance for volume of fire, and individual cartridge effectiveness.

5.56 NATO is good at wounding, but you are less likely to cause reliable damage. 7.62 NATO can penetrate obstacles which is useful in combat but not hunting. A big problem with 5.56 is it can’t get through barriers that someone might be hiding behind. Hunting-wise, it’s a bad idea and is unethical to wound the animal. Another problem with 5.56 is simply its lack of power. Soldiers have had problem with people running at them and not stopping despite being shot many times. They both can kill in most scenarios, but I’d rather risk it with 7.62 NATO. Logistically, 5.56 looks better, but 7.62 looks better for the actual soldier. Except for reasons like weight and recoil.

[The South Falls]

Let's tow it back on topic.


GUN COMMIES!

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Let's tow it back on topic.


GUN COMMIES!

Of course, the argument should be whether the leftists should be armed with 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, or 5.45x39.

[Torrocca]

Let's tow it back on topic.


GUN COMMIES!

GUNS FOR EVERY REVOLUTIONARY*!

*Who wishes to be armed, of course. Those who don't and would rather take up support roles or what have you are welcome to do so :3

[Washington Resistance Army]

Let's tow it back on topic.


GUN COMMIES!

Commies shouldn't have guns, AMA

[Ors Might]

Let's tow it back on topic.


GUN COMMIES!

GUNS FOR EVERY REVOLUTIONARY*!

*Who wishes to be armed, of course. Those who don't and would rather take up support roles or what have you are welcome to do so :3

The support comrades can fight in melee, like all true champions of the battlefield!

[Torrocca]

GUNS FOR EVERY REVOLUTIONARY*!

*Who wishes to be armed, of course. Those who don't and would rather take up support roles or what have you are welcome to do so :3

The support comrades can fight in melee, like all true champions of the battlefield!

Nah, we can't toss our field medics, vehicle drivers, mechanics, etc. into a bloody melee, that-

COMRADE, THIS IS INGENIUS. SURELY ENEMY WILL SEE NO FLAWS. ENEMY DEFINITELY WILL NOT THINK US STUPID BY DOING THIS. NO WAY WE CAN TRICK THEM WITH PSY OPS BY PRETENDING TO BE STUPID.

[Ors Might]

The support comrades can fight in melee, like all true champions of the battlefield!

Nah, we can't toss our field medics, vehicle drivers, mechanics, etc. into a bloody melee, that-

COMRADE, THIS IS INGENIUS. SURELY ENEMY WILL SEE NO FLAWS. ENEMY DEFINITELY WILL NOT THINK US STUPID BY DOING THIS. NO WAY WE CAN TRICK THEM WITH PSY OPS BY PRETENDING TO BE STUPID.

Remember, comrade. The enemy cannot plan around a nonexistent plan. If we give into raw, unfiltered chaos, surely our foes will fall to it as well!

[Torrocca]

Nah, we can't toss our field medics, vehicle drivers, mechanics, etc. into a bloody melee, that-

COMRADE, THIS IS INGENIUS. SURELY ENEMY WILL SEE NO FLAWS. ENEMY DEFINITELY WILL NOT THINK US STUPID BY DOING THIS. NO WAY WE CAN TRICK THEM WITH PSY OPS BY PRETENDING TO BE STUPID.

Remember, comrade. The enemy cannot plan around a nonexistent plan. If we give into raw, unfiltered chaos, surely our foes will fall to it as well!

The Chaos Strategem is nigh-unstoppable!

We just need a strong operational and tactical backbone to support it!

[Kubra]

Insofar as more violent insurrections fail than succeed, you can understand why it's necessary for any would-be insurrectos to have an idea of the economy of violence, rather than just stockpiling AR-15's.

That’s less an argument against insurrections and more an argument for allowing citizens greater firepower.

That's a position no state is going to take, buddy.
"give us more firepower so we can better organise insurrectionary movements to overthrow the state"
In general, insurgents know better than to simply demand.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

I remember how my children found dead girl in my house. I came home from work and almost went fucked. I remember I was helped by a sedative Ford Expooper SUV Car and the words of my wife that everything will be fucked. But inside I imagined all the terrible picture that could have happened during the time when my wife got died..

(Joke)

This is the language of the gods...

[Ardoki]

Define 'liberal'. Are you using the actual definition (used by the rest of the world), or the American one (which is incorrect and very simplified)?

What about non-American liberals? Why should they support an amendment to the American constitution when it doesn't concern them?

[Aellex]

Nah, we can't toss our field medics, vehicle drivers, mechanics, etc. into a bloody melee, that-

COMRADE, THIS IS INGENIUS. SURELY ENEMY WILL SEE NO FLAWS. ENEMY DEFINITELY WILL NOT THINK US STUPID BY DOING THIS. NO WAY WE CAN TRICK THEM WITH PSY OPS BY PRETENDING TO BE STUPID.

Remember, comrade. The enemy cannot plan around a nonexistent plan. If we give into raw, unfiltered chaos, surely our foes will fall to it as well!

The more likely outcome is that your men will fall, and they will fall in drove.
A disorganized unit is a dead unit.

[Deltanium]

IMO it’s a good idea. The founding fathers knew what they were doing when they made the 2nd Amendment. Also, if worst comes to worst, we have a few more unofficial soldiers to defend our nation.

[Ors Might]

Remember, comrade. The enemy cannot plan around a nonexistent plan. If we give into raw, unfiltered chaos, surely our foes will fall to it as well!

The more likely outcome is that your men will fall, and they will fall in drove.
A disorganized unit is a dead unit.

Was a joke, friend.

[Sicaris]

Let's tow it back on topic.


GUN COMMIES!

Commies shouldn't have guns, AMA

7.62x51mm or 7.62x39mm?

[Paddy O Fernature]

Define 'liberal'. Are you using the actual definition (used by the rest of the world), or the American one (which is incorrect and very simplified)?

What about non-American liberals? Why should they support an amendment to the American constitution when it doesn't concern them?

I agree. Non American's opinions don't matter about American politics that don't concern them.

[Alvecia]

Define 'liberal'. Are you using the actual definition (used by the rest of the world), or the American one (which is incorrect and very simplified)?

What about non-American liberals? Why should they support an amendment to the American constitution when it doesn't concern them?

I agree. Non American's opinions don't matter about American politics that don't concern them.

If only Americans followed that logic with other countries.

[Ors Might]

I agree. Non American's opinions don't matter about American politics that don't concern them.

If only Americans followed that logic with other countries.

To be fair, a good chunk of our alliances with other countries require us to interfere to some extent, typically in the form of military bases. If people don’t want the US to be the world police, they shouldn’t put the US in a position where they can easily justify being the world police.

[Iraeska]

As much as I hate liberals I fully support all leftist militias that oppose fascists and people similar to them.
As for the second amendment, in today's world where the bourgeoisie will do anything to stay in power, weapons are necessary for all proletariat.
And to quote Marx himself,
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunitions be surrendered. Any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force ifnecessary."

Left unity won't happen

[Greater vakolicci haven]

As much as I hate liberals I fully support all leftist militias that oppose fascists and people similar to them.
As for the second amendment, in today's world where the bourgeoisie will do anything to stay in power, weapons are necessary for all proletariat.
And to quote Marx himself,
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunitions be surrendered. Any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force ifnecessary."

Left unity won't happen

You support organised vigilante groups attacking people they disagree with?

[Sicaris]

As much as I hate liberals I fully support all leftist militias that oppose fascists and people similar to them.
As for the second amendment, in today's world where the bourgeoisie will do anything to stay in power, weapons are necessary for all proletariat.
And to quote Marx himself,
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunitions be surrendered. Any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force ifnecessary."

Left unity won't happen

The problem is, by most of their definitions, “fascist” is anyone right of them on the political spectrum. Do you want Bobby McCommie showing these groups you support as possible national security threats after they shot someone who disagreed with them?

[Genivaria]

As much as I hate liberals I fully support all leftist militias that oppose fascists and people similar to them.
As for the second amendment, in today's world where the bourgeoisie will do anything to stay in power, weapons are necessary for all proletariat.
And to quote Marx himself,
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunitions be surrendered. Any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force ifnecessary."

Left unity won't happen

The problem is, by most of their definitions, “fascist” is anyone right of them on the political spectrum. Do you want Bobby McCommie showing these groups you support as possible national security threats after they shot someone who disagreed with them?

This is funny because a liberal like Obama was attacked as a communist.