Leftist Militias: Should Liberals Be Pro-Second Amendment?

[The Traansval]

Armed Militias during peace time are a threat to a peaceful stable society and are undemocratic. The 2nd Amendment allows for the formation of Militia's for the defense of the nation, not so that people can play wannabe revolutionary or vigilante. The only time a citizen militia should be formed is in times of war, civil war, or if its for civil resistance against a tyranical government or occupying power. Otherwise, its no better than a gang or mafia.

[Hamstan]

Story time.

I was in some Antifa-Aligned Militia when I was like, 14. They called themselves "United Armed Antifascists for Change and Equality" or some shit. I was a tag-along of this older dude who was, and still is, my best friend. They treated me like a pet or something, but a lot of the older kids (I kall em "kids" because the oldest one was only 29) had guns. Some had battle rifles, most had a shotgun or a bolt action rifle. Anyway, they taught me how to make a molotov and had shooting ranges and stuff. They liked to stay offline too, getting new guys via word of mouth.

Anyway, they broke up after some huge fistfight and me and my friend never heard from them again. Make of this what you will.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Indeed why should I die for my rights? Why should I fight for them with arms? What happens if I’m a radical? What if I keep fighting?

I don't know why you should or shouldn't. Personally I'd say to leave the world a better place than you found it. Be it for your children, or your friends, or just for humanity in general. In the end, that's up to you.

As for rather you're a radical, well -shrug- you have never really struck me as such, if you are, well, shit.

I’m not
But I’ve seen Civil first hand, and this seems a way to start one

[Telconi]

I don't know why you should or shouldn't. Personally I'd say to leave the world a better place than you found it. Be it for your children, or your friends, or just for humanity in general. In the end, that's up to you.

As for rather you're a radical, well -shrug- you have never really struck me as such, if you are, well, shit.

I’m not
But I’ve seen Civil first hand, and this seems a way to start one

If standing up for your human rights starts a war, then it's a war worth starting.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I’m not
But I’ve seen Civil first hand, and this seems a way to start one

If standing up for your human rights starts a war, then it's a war worth starting.

I’m more hesitant
War is not pretty, civil war less so
I’d avoid it all costs

[Telconi]

If standing up for your human rights starts a war, then it's a war worth starting.

I’m more hesitant
War is not pretty, civil war less so
I’d avoid it all costs

-shrug- I can't stop you from believing that's right, but I adamantly disagree.

[Sovaal]

Story time.

I was in some Antifa-Aligned Militia when I was like, 14. They called themselves "United Armed Antifascists for Change and Equality" or some shit. I was a tag-along of this older dude who was, and still is, my best friend. They treated me like a pet or something, but a lot of the older kids (I kall em "kids" because the oldest one was only 29) had guns. Some had battle rifles, most had a shotgun or a bolt action rifle. Anyway, they taught me how to make a molotov and had shooting ranges and stuff. They liked to stay offline too, getting new guys via word of mouth.

Anyway, they broke up after some huge fistfight and me and my friend never heard from them again. Make of this what you will.

Sounds like how most militias go. Just a group of weirdos larping around.

[Sovaal]

If standing up for your human rights starts a war, then it's a war worth starting.

I’m more hesitant
War is not pretty, civil war less so
I’d avoid it all costs

War's bad, yes.

But there's a line where the other option is worse.

[Woudlora]

At the same time, however... Is it a good idea to be pro-Second Amendment? Does the Second Amendment advocate a state-funded militia, or private militias? Should liberals bear arms, or is that counter-productive, both towards national and local safety and crime safety? Are leftist militias a concept that is too far-left?

I wouldn't say I'm desperately hoping that the left reforms itself and reconsiders its general stance on the second amendment, but I think it might do them some good, although I doubt they'll actually adopt it. I think support for leftist militias is usually a feature of the far left rather than something anyone on the center left or left would endorse because the far left is the only group among the three which actually identifies itself with any sort of revolutionary cause, and this is because they're so totally opposed to the status quo.

I think it's unlikely that liberals will begin to endorse the second amendment because as a whole I think they lack the myths of rugged independence and connection with American revolutionary tradition which conservatives and libertarians alike identify themselves so heavily with. Getting to understand how guns work might assuage some of their fears around school shootings, however if the left does reconsider, it will be as a reaction to the right, and I don't think it will last for long. I'm generally opposed to the left as it currently is anyway, and I do strongly support gun rights although I think any sort of militia-based resistance against the United States government would prove futile, so I don't care whether the left changes its position on this issue or not.

[Sovaal]

At the same time, however... Is it a good idea to be pro-Second Amendment? Does the Second Amendment advocate a state-funded militia, or private militias? Should liberals bear arms, or is that counter-productive, both towards national and local safety and crime safety? Are leftist militias a concept that is too far-left?

I wouldn't say I'm desperately hoping that the left reforms itself and reconsiders its general stance on the second amendment, but I think it might do them some good, although I doubt they'll actually adopt it. I think support for leftist militias is usually a feature of the far left rather than something anyone on the center left or left would endorse because the far left is the only group among the three which actually identifies itself with any sort of revolutionary cause, and this is because they're so totally opposed to the status quo.

I think it's unlikely that liberals will begin to endorse the second amendment because as a whole I think they lack the myths of rugged independence and connection with American revolutionary tradition which conservatives and libertarians alike identify themselves so heavily with. Getting to understand how guns work might assuage some of their fears around school shootings, however if the left does reconsider, it will be as a reaction to the right, and I don't think it will last for long. I'm generally opposed to the left as it currently is anyway, and I do strongly support gun rights although I think any sort of militia-based resistance against the United States government would prove futile, so I don't care whether the left changes its position on this issue or not.

This is a more thought out and nuanced post than near anything posted on this forum deserves.

[Woudlora]

This is a more thought out and nuanced post than near anything posted on this forum deserves.

Thanks!

Armed Militias during peace time are a threat to a peaceful stable society and are undemocratic. The 2nd Amendment allows for the formation of Militia's for the defense of the nation, not so that people can play wannabe revolutionary or vigilante. The only time a citizen militia should be formed is in times of war, civil war, or if its for civil resistance against a tyranical government or occupying power. Otherwise, its no better than a gang or mafia.

You have an interesting take on this issue, although I strongly disagree. I can concede that most militias, unless they are actually comprised of ex-military individuals or individuals who have received quality paramilitary training, are really just playing at being revolutionaries, however I would argue it's a necessary outlet for some people. I don't think they're a very serious threat, and I don't think they're necessarily undemocratic. I think a militia can be an expression of popular will, in fact. I don't think they're as bad as gangs or the mafia because until I see otherwise, I don't think they're run at all like real criminal enterprises, and I think most of the members, at least in America, often have high views of law enforcement and are really more worried about a tyrant taking power and suspending the constitution than anything else.

[Grinning Dragon]

Armed Militias during peace time are a threat to a peaceful stable society and are undemocratic. The 2nd Amendment allows for the formation of Militia's for the defense of the nation, not so that people can play wannabe revolutionary or vigilante. The only time a citizen militia should be formed is in times of war, civil war, or if its for civil resistance against a tyrannical government or occupying power. Otherwise, its no better than a gang or mafia.

Armed militias are NOT a threat during peace time, waiting until the day shit hits the fan to form a militia and train is already to late. Nothing like getting caught with your pants down.
The 2nd Amendment codifies and acknowledges a negative right to keep and bear arms and enumerates it, with a prefatory clause that acknowledges one purpose of the right to keep and bear arms is the ability to form and regulate a militia.

[Razarija]

to not arm oneself when the whole political scene is a very thinly veiled war for total control is pretty dumb tbh so sure

[Sovaal]

to not arm oneself when the whole political scene is a very thinly veiled war for total control is pretty dumb tbh so sure

I see you have never opened a history book.

[Razarija]

to not arm oneself when the whole political scene is a very thinly veiled war for total control is pretty dumb tbh so sure

I see you have never opened a history book.

perhaps not one that doesn't says it

chicom life man

[Len Hyet]

Everyone should be pro-Second Amendment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Saiwania]

Kristallnacht stands for "Night of Broken Glass", which was a pivotal progrom when SA forces (ideological thugs just like Antifa, albeit far more dangerous and emboldened) vandalized, destroyed, harmed, and set fire to property owned by Jewish people, all of whom were completely innocent.

The people who did Kristallnacht weren't supposed to be in uniform, because that would make it look worser than intended for the international press. The orders were for SA members and other involved Germans to be in civilian clothing but for the German police to not intervene at all whilst the property damage was being done. This was meant to be a civilian action in retaliation for the death of Ernst vom Rath by a Jew in France. The "righteous anger of the German people" in a manner of speaking.

It was primarily orchestrated by Joseph Goebbels to win Hitler's favor even more, but after it backfired- Goebbels managed to get himself back out of a corner via proposing that the Jews get billed for it which the rest of the NSDAP inner circle agreed to. The Jews usually had property or assets to loot from, so this approach had a cold logic to it.

Any property damage could be paid for via confiscating from the Jews which the Nazis wanted to do anyways.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Story time.

I was in some Antifa-Aligned Militia when I was like, 14. They called themselves "United Armed Antifascists for Change and Equality" or some shit. I was a tag-along of this older dude who was, and still is, my best friend. They treated me like a pet or something, but a lot of the older kids (I kall em "kids" because the oldest one was only 29) had guns. Some had battle rifles, most had a shotgun or a bolt action rifle. Anyway, they taught me how to make a molotov and had shooting ranges and stuff. They liked to stay offline too, getting new guys via word of mouth.

Anyway, they broke up after some huge fistfight and me and my friend never heard from them again. Make of this what you will.

Sounds like how most militias go. Just a group of weirdos larping around.

To be fair, this can certainly describe most of the post Obama militias that I've seen pop up and disappear over the last decade. However, I personally have seen several "Old School" groups that have been around for much longer that are mostly comprised of Ex-Mil/LEO types that I honestly believe would give the government a run for it's money any day of the week. Hell, one of the coolest groups I've had the pleasure of meeting up with was comprised entirely of medical professionals, ranging from EMT-B's at the lowest to their founder who was a charge nurse at the local hospital ED and prior SF Medic during I believe Desert Storm/Shield time frame. Their "Mission" wasn't to overthrow the government or prepare for the sudden eruption of Mount Endall, but to ensure continued critical care for the local area in the event of a complete breakdown of the system, which actually has happened a few times before already in the past during large scale emergencies.

Everyone should be pro-Second Amendment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sure would be nice if people would stop blindly attacking the 2A every other day and instead used that energy and focus on actual issues facing America.

Armed Militias during peace time are a threat to a peaceful stable society and are undemocratic. The 2nd Amendment allows for the formation of Militia's for the defense of the nation, not so that people can play wannabe revolutionary or vigilante. The only time a citizen militia should be formed is in times of war, civil war, or if its for civil resistance against a tyranical government or occupying power. Otherwise, its no better than a gang or mafia.

Respectfully disagree, with everything you have said here.

If people want to run around there own private property in camouflage and shoot paper targets, while at the same time stockpiling food, water, and other supplies, let them as them forming up and doing this is part of the beauty that is freedom in America. If these people are not physically hurting anyone, or doing anything otherwise illegal, then they should be left alone to go about their business like every other citizen in the US.

[Telconi]

Sounds like how most militias go. Just a group of weirdos larping around.

To be fair, this can certainly describe most of the post Obama militias that I've seen pop up and disappear over the last decade. However, I personally have seen several "Old School" groups that have been around for much longer that are mostly comprised of Ex-Mil/LEO types that I honestly believe would give the government a run for it's money any day of the week. Hell, one of the coolest groups I've had the pleasure of meeting up with was comprised entirely of medical professionals, ranging from EMT-B's at the lowest to their founder who was a charge nurse at the local hospital ED and prior SF Medic during I believe Desert Storm/Shield time frame. Their "Mission" wasn't to overthrow the government or prepare for the sudden eruption of Mount Endall, but to ensure continued critical care for the local area in the event of a complete breakdown of the system, which actually has happened a few times before already in the past during large scale emergencies.

Everyone should be pro-Second Amendment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sure would be nice if people would stop blindly attacking the 2A every other day and instead used that energy and focus on actual issues facing America.

Armed Militias during peace time are a threat to a peaceful stable society and are undemocratic. The 2nd Amendment allows for the formation of Militia's for the defense of the nation, not so that people can play wannabe revolutionary or vigilante. The only time a citizen militia should be formed is in times of war, civil war, or if its for civil resistance against a tyranical government or occupying power. Otherwise, its no better than a gang or mafia.

Respectfully disagree, with everything you have said here.

If people want to run around there own private property in camouflage and shoot paper targets, while at the same time stockpiling food, water, and other supplies, let them as them forming up and doing this is part of the beauty that is freedom in America. If these people are not physically hurting anyone, or doing anything otherwise illegal, then they should be left alone to go about their business like every other citizen in the US.

B-But Paddy, people liking what they don't like *is* an issue!

[Paddy O Fernature]

To be fair, this can certainly describe most of the post Obama militias that I've seen pop up and disappear over the last decade. However, I personally have seen several "Old School" groups that have been around for much longer that are mostly comprised of Ex-Mil/LEO types that I honestly believe would give the government a run for it's money any day of the week. Hell, one of the coolest groups I've had the pleasure of meeting up with was comprised entirely of medical professionals, ranging from EMT-B's at the lowest to their founder who was a charge nurse at the local hospital ED and prior SF Medic during I believe Desert Storm/Shield time frame. Their "Mission" wasn't to overthrow the government or prepare for the sudden eruption of Mount Endall, but to ensure continued critical care for the local area in the event of a complete breakdown of the system, which actually has happened a few times before already in the past during large scale emergencies.





Sure would be nice if people would stop blindly attacking the 2A every other day and instead used that energy and focus on actual issues facing America.



Respectfully disagree, with everything you have said here.

If people want to run around there own private property in camouflage and shoot paper targets, while at the same time stockpiling food, water, and other supplies, let them as them forming up and doing this is part of the beauty that is freedom in America. If these people are not physically hurting anyone, or doing anything otherwise illegal, then they should be left alone to go about their business like every other citizen in the US.

B-But Paddy, people liking what they don't like *is* an issue!

Only to those who hate freedom.

[Chernoslavia]

Story time.

I was in some Antifa-Aligned Militia when I was like, 14. They called themselves "United Armed Antifascists for Change and Equality" or some shit. I was a tag-along of this older dude who was, and still is, my best friend. They treated me like a pet or something, but a lot of the older kids (I kall em "kids" because the oldest one was only 29) had guns. Some had battle rifles, most had a shotgun or a bolt action rifle. Anyway, they taught me how to make a molotov and had shooting ranges and stuff. They liked to stay offline too, getting new guys via word of mouth.

Anyway, they broke up after some huge fistfight and me and my friend never heard from them again. Make of this what you will.

Sounds like how most militias go. Just a group of weirdos larping around.

Lol certainly not like this, this is just antifa eating their own as usual. Militias usually disband as a result of many of their members not showing up to FTXs aka ''place holders'', having an already busy schedule, suspected infiltrators such as undercover feds, individual members wanting to start their own group, etc. I seldom see right wing groups infight.

[Chernoslavia]

Projectionists at their finest. People need to stop blaming others and take a little bit of self responsibility for their stupid mistakes.

Tbh, I trust myself very much but still wouldn't want most of the population to have a free access to weapons.

Ah the ''Guns for me but not for thee'' types. The most dangerous kinds.

[Revanchism]

Sounds like how most militias go. Just a group of weirdos larping around.

Lol certainly not like this, this is just antifa eating their own as usual. Militias usually disband as a result of many of their members not showing up to FTXs aka ''place holders'', having an already busy schedule, suspected infiltrators such as undercover feds, individual members wanting to start their own group, etc. I seldom see right wing groups infight.

Did you somehow miss the TWP and Matthew Heimbach debacle?

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Also, I could take a single unarmed attacker in most scenarios without a gun.

Uh huh.

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT ME, YOU LITTLE SHIT! I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW I GRADUATED TOP IN MY CLASS IN THE SPETSNAZ MEELEE TRAINING AND I HAVE FIFTY CONFIRMED KILLS WITH MY HANDS ALONE!
Okay, sh*tposting aside, I’ve actually been doing martial arts for years and I’m in good shape compared to a vast majority of the American population. I have already thought about what improvised non lethal weapons I could use in a fight and I’m not expecting them be as good in kickboxing as a black or brown belt that is also larger than me. Everything else aside, it’s (probably) pretty hard to beat someone with a baseball bat or knife in their hand unarmed.

[Chernoslavia]

Lol certainly not like this, this is just antifa eating their own as usual. Militias usually disband as a result of many of their members not showing up to FTXs aka ''place holders'', having an already busy schedule, suspected infiltrators such as undercover feds, individual members wanting to start their own group, etc. I seldom see right wing groups infight.

Did you somehow miss the TWP and Matthew Heimbach debacle?

They're not militia.