The best that men can get..

[Scomagia]

1. Trying to take charge, 2. competing with other males, 3.being self reliant, 4. making yourself be wanted, 5. and yeah there is physical stuff like either camping or sports or hunting.

It's not always "who is the biggest". If it was, my scrawny 5'7 ass wouldn't be supporting it.

1. Not specifically masculine behavior
2. Stupid behavior
3. Behavior everyone should be capable of
4. Emotional insecurity
5. Interests that aren't gender specific

I personally view masculinity as not giving a fuck about what's considered traditionally masculine or not and just doing what you want to do.

What's stupid about competition?

[New haven america]

For someone who claims to use it so much, you seem to be lacking in actual understanding... ugh, fine.

Debunked Alpha/Beta Social Hierarchy:
-Alpha: Head of the pack, tends to get everything first, also tends to have a lazy streak
-Beta: 2nd in command, has closer connection to pack due to usually acting as hunters/defenders, comes 2nd when getting food, is actually very friendly with alphas and vice versa
-Omegas/Gammas: last in pecking order, last to get food, unlikely to mate despite being the largest population bar none, totally submissive and used as communal scapegoat

Ok that makes sense.

But what you're saying is...the football player dating all the girls isn't an alpha, his friend who is popular but not as popular isn't a beta, and the furry kid isn't a omega/gamma?

Yep, because you missed the edit (And the fact that you didn't even know what an Omega was until I told): Populations are too complex to mark down in only 3 categories, and that each individual is different.

Who knows? That football player could have no plans for after high school and end up peaking during that time period and end up a jobless deadbeat, while the popular kid could also be into traditionally "Omega" type stuff like computers or art or science and build a great career out of those, while the furry kid could actually learn to be very personable later in life and become a social butterfly.

This bring up another point: The A/B/O hierarchy doesn't really change. Only reason a change would occur is if an alpha or beta dies, there's no room for movement or social evolution, which is totally false in real life.

[New haven america]

1. Not specifically masculine behavior
2. Stupid behavior
3. Behavior everyone should be capable of
4. Emotional insecurity
5. Interests that aren't gender specific

I personally view masculinity as not giving a fuck about what's considered traditionally masculine or not and just doing what you want to do.

What's stupid about competition?

The type of competition he's talking about isn't friendly competition or economic competition or etc...

I've spent plenty of time around and even made a few friends with guys who use competiton as a form of dominance/getting their way when someone challenges them (Like a guy messing with people all day but starting fights if someone messes with them in a similar way). They're not pleasent people to be around.

[Scomagia]

What's stupid about competition?

The type of competition he's talking about isn't friendly competition or economic competition or etc...

I've spent plenty of time around and even made a few friends with guys who use competiton as a form of dominance/getting their way when someone challenges them (Like a guy messing with people all day but starting fights if someone messes with them in a similar way). They're not pleasent people to be around.

Where'd you get that? I don't see any of that in the post. He just said competition with other males.

[Webus]

yeah, lesbians don't exist.

In this context, I'm referring to straight women.

how can a man not be masculine, aren't men by definition masculine

[New haven america]

The type of competition he's talking about isn't friendly competition or economic competition or etc...

I've spent plenty of time around and even made a few friends with guys who use competiton as a form of dominance/getting their way when someone challenges them (Like a guy messing with people all day but starting fights if someone messes with them in a similar way). They're not pleasent people to be around.

Where'd you get that? I don't see any of that in the post. He just said competition with other males.

Maybe because most of his posts here (And in another thread) generally involve him claiming masculinity is stereotypical/destructive masculine behavior and the A/B/O model?

[Scomagia]

Where'd you get that? I don't see any of that in the post. He just said competition with other males.

Maybe because most of his posts here (And in another thread) generally involve him claiming masculinity is stereotypical/destructive masculine behavior and the A/B/O model?

I don't think he meant bullying when he said competition. Even looking at his other posts that seems like a reach. Until he says otherwise, I'm going to assume he meant sports and such.

[Costa Fierro]

I believe it's just him being...um...I want to say satirical but for the most part it's just fucking bizarre.

To some people, fucking bizarre is sexy.

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying I have no idea if what he's doing is satire or just humour I don't get.

[Gravlen]

On the boys will be boys point Lir, if you doubt it, here's a challenge.

Find anyone using the term in a serious fashion in the way feminists pretend it is used, ever, from history.

A MAN accused of violently raping a woman to death on an isolated beach told a detective, "these things just happen, man, that's it. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls", a court has heard.

https://www.qt.com.au/news/lynette-daley-rape-accused-told-police-boys-will-b/3207201/

A Montana prosecutor reportedly had a heartless explanation for the mother a 5-year-old rape victim — "boys will be boys."

The surprising anecdote is just one of the horror stories sex assault victims in Missoula told federal investigators, according to a new report.

The U.S. Department of Justice found Missoula County Attorney's prosecutors routinely discriminated against female victims, refusing legitimate cases, pushing sex crimes to the lowest of priorities and belittling women who came to them for help.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boys-boys-mont-prosecutor-tells-5-year-old-rape-victim-mom-report-article-1.1616670

It was a Glen Ridge defense attorney, Michael Querques, who said in his opening statement last October: "Boys will be boys. Pranksters. Foolarounds. Do crazy things. Experiment with life and disregard their parents. Boys will be boys."

From the 1993 Glen Ridge rape case, where defense attorneys portrayed the victim as a seductress and the rapists as good all-American boys who had made excusable mistakes ("boys will be boys") as they sexually assaulted the young woman with a variety of foreign objects, including a broom and a bat. All three were convicted of sexual assault.

According to court documents filed Thursday in Jackson County Circuit Court, an employee of the diocese stated in a deposition that she recalled Bishop Robert Finn saying "boys will be boys" during a discussion about pictures found on the computer of a priest now charged with child pornography.

Julie Creech, Director of Management and Information Systems for the Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph, said she met with Bishop Robert Finn and expressed her concerns about the lewd images found on a laptop computer that belonged to Father Shawn Ratigan.

She gave her deposition two weeks ago in connection with a civil suit filed against Ratigan, Finn and the diocese. Creech claims when she approached Bishop Finn, the bishop replied "Sometimes priests do things they shouldn't," and "Sometimes boys will be boys."

https://fox4kc.com/2012/08/30/deposition-bishop-said-boys-will-be-boys-about-priests-porn/

and India, of course:

In April, Yadav’s father, party head and former Uttar Pradesh chief minister Mulayam Singh Yadav, opposed capital punishment for rape, citing that "boys will be boys … they make mistakes." Just days later, Abu Azmi, the head of the party’s Maharashtra state branch, argued that if men were hanged for rape, then women should be hanged for having premarital sex.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/13/boys-will-be-boys/

[Western Vale Confederacy]

The few times I have ever heard the term "boys will be boys" were from women, almost always my mother...

[Gravlen]

No. More like "if you are making the same arguments as a known far right grifter who's notoriously terrible at actually thinking rationally and telling the truth, your argument probably has some issues".

Its like a twisted interpretation of the saying "all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" and assumes that the good men in the saying are to blame for evil. That's not what that sayong is arguing, at all. By saying "we can do better" isn't claiming that men are bad, but that we can make things better by not ignoring the bad behavior.

This was a really interesting example.

[New haven america]

On the boys will be boys point Lir, if you doubt it, here's a challenge.

Find anyone using the term in a serious fashion in the way feminists pretend it is used, ever, from history.

A MAN accused of violently raping a woman to death on an isolated beach told a detective, "these things just happen, man, that's it. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls", a court has heard.

https://www.qt.com.au/news/lynette-daley-rape-accused-told-police-boys-will-b/3207201/

A Montana prosecutor reportedly had a heartless explanation for the mother a 5-year-old rape victim — "boys will be boys."

The surprising anecdote is just one of the horror stories sex assault victims in Missoula told federal investigators, according to a new report.

The U.S. Department of Justice found Missoula County Attorney's prosecutors routinely discriminated against female victims, refusing legitimate cases, pushing sex crimes to the lowest of priorities and belittling women who came to them for help.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boys-boys-mont-prosecutor-tells-5-year-old-rape-victim-mom-report-article-1.1616670

Well, one of those in Australia, not the US where the commerical was based.

Not gonna disagree with the Montana thing though (Even though I struggle to call Montana "Civilization").

[Gravlen]

A MAN accused of violently raping a woman to death on an isolated beach told a detective, "these things just happen, man, that's it. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls", a court has heard.

https://www.qt.com.au/news/lynette-daley-rape-accused-told-police-boys-will-b/3207201/

A Montana prosecutor reportedly had a heartless explanation for the mother a 5-year-old rape victim — "boys will be boys."

The surprising anecdote is just one of the horror stories sex assault victims in Missoula told federal investigators, according to a new report.

The U.S. Department of Justice found Missoula County Attorney's prosecutors routinely discriminated against female victims, refusing legitimate cases, pushing sex crimes to the lowest of priorities and belittling women who came to them for help.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boys-boys-mont-prosecutor-tells-5-year-old-rape-victim-mom-report-article-1.1616670

Well, one of those in Australia, not the US where the commerical was based.

Not gonna disagree with the Montana thing though (Even though I struggle to call Montana "Civilization").

The challenge was to find "anyone using the term in a serious fashion in the way feminists pretend it is used, ever, from history". It was not limited to the US.

I added a few examples more, above. Two more from the US and one from India.

[Vassenor]

And all that stuff about how Trump bragging about committing sexual assault was written off as "locker room talk".

[New haven america]

And all that stuff about how Trump bragging about committing sexual assault was written off as "locker room talk".

Only by Trump and his supporters...

Also, most of the examples Grav has given us just so happens to involve those leaning towards the right...

Coincidence? I think not!

[Scomagia]

And all that stuff about how Trump bragging about committing sexual assault was written off as "locker room talk".

He didn't say he'd done it, though. He said that if you're famous women will let you "grab em by the pussy". It's crass, sure, but it isn't an admission of a crime. Come on.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm no supporter of Trump.

[Vassenor]

And all that stuff about how Trump bragging about committing sexual assault was written off as "locker room talk".

He didn't say he'd done it, though. He said that if you're famous women will let you "grab em by the pussy". It's crass, sure, but it isn't an admission of a crime. Come on.

“I did try and f--- her. She was married,” Trump says.

Trump continues: “And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’”

“I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married,” Trump says. “Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.”

At that point in the audio, Trump and Bush appear to notice Arianne Zucker, the actress who is waiting to escort them into the soap-opera set.

“Your girl’s hot as s---, in the purple,” says Bush, who’s now a co-host of NBC’s “Today” show.

“Whoa!” Trump says. “Whoa!”

“I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her,” Trump says. “You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.”

Sauce.

Which people have used to justify their own actual commission of sexual assault.

[Scomagia]

He didn't say he'd done it, though. He said that if you're famous women will let you "grab em by the pussy". It's crass, sure, but it isn't an admission of a crime. Come on.

“I did try and f--- her. She was married,” Trump says.

Trump continues: “And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’”

“I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married,” Trump says. “Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.”

At that point in the audio, Trump and Bush appear to notice Arianne Zucker, the actress who is waiting to escort them into the soap-opera set.

“Your girl’s hot as s---, in the purple,” says Bush, who’s now a co-host of NBC’s “Today” show.

“Whoa!” Trump says. “Whoa!”

“I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her,” Trump says. “You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.”

Sauce.

Which people have used to justify their own actual commission of sexual assault.

Again it's a disgusting thing to say but I'm not seeing the admission to sexual assault. The bit about kissing seems more like an attempt at comedic hyperbole than something he's actually saying he does or has done.

[Vassenor]

Sauce.

Which people have used to justify their own actual commission of sexual assault.

Again it's a disgusting thing to say but I'm not seeing the admission to sexual assault. The bit about kissing seems more like an attempt at comedic hyperbole than something he's actually saying he does or has done.

So "I did try and f--- her" isn't an admission of attempted sexual assault? Huh.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Again it's a disgusting thing to say but I'm not seeing the admission to sexual assault. The bit about kissing seems more like an attempt at comedic hyperbole than something he's actually saying he does or has done.

So "I did try and f--- her" isn't an admission of attempted sexual assault? Huh.

Realistically it could mean a lot of things tbh

[Special Aromas]

This why I love being a white man. Everything is so good for us lads at the moment that even the slightest notion that we as a collective could or should be better people has us foaming at the mouth.

[West Leas Oros 2]

This was the point I made earlier, and I’m sticking to it. Gillette is seeking converts, seeking obedience.

I personally don’t view the message as good. I see at as the view that men are only good if they obey the views of a “good man”. Quite simply, it’s telling people they’re bad and in order to be good they need to obey what they are told by corporations/government/stuff like that. That “good” is obedience to the authorities telling them they are bad. It’s like a church telling you that you’re a sinner, but by adhering to church doctrine, you can overcome sin. Either way, it’s someone faulting you for existing, and saying that you must become what they desire to overcome your “miserable existence”.

I don’t know what kind of fucked up world we’re in were you’re born a villain, and the only way to repent is to reject yourself and become a drone to the powers that be.

[Ifreann]

This was the point I made earlier, and I’m sticking to it. Gillette is seeking converts, seeking obedience.

I personally don’t view the message as good. I see at as the view that men are only good if they obey the views of a “good man”. Quite simply, it’s telling people they’re bad and in order to be good they need to obey what they are told by corporations/government/stuff like that. That “good” is obedience to the authorities telling them they are bad. It’s like a church telling you that you’re a sinner, but by adhering to church doctrine, you can overcome sin. Either way, it’s someone faulting you for existing, and saying that you must become what they desire to overcome your “miserable existence”.

I don’t know what kind of fucked up world we’re in were you’re born a villain, and the only way to repent is to reject yourself and become a drone to the powers that be.

I think you're overselling it a bit.

[The Black Party]

Well maybe boys should be boys

[Hirota]

This was the point I made earlier, and I’m sticking to it. Gillette is seeking converts, seeking obedience.

I personally don’t view the message as good. I see at as the view that men are only good if they obey the views of a “good man”. Quite simply, it’s telling people they’re bad and in order to be good they need to obey what they are told by corporations/government/stuff like that. That “good” is obedience to the authorities telling them they are bad. It’s like a church telling you that you’re a sinner, but by adhering to church doctrine, you can overcome sin. Either way, it’s someone faulting you for existing, and saying that you must become what they desire to overcome your “miserable existence”.

I don’t know what kind of fucked up world we’re in were you’re born a villain, and the only way to repent is to reject yourself and become a drone to the powers that be.

<nods> It's why I used "pontificating." It's positioning Gillette as the brand to save your soul (and facial hair or lack thereof) from eternal damnation. Repent your sins and be saved.

I think you're overselling it a bit.

Overselling like positioning a shaving company as the moral compass for men in the west? Or not quite that absurd?