The best that men can get..

[Liriena]

I do see "alpha" and "beta" types in our society.

Because scientifically illiterate grifters have conditioned you to retroactively apply those categories to the people around you, much in the same way that incel ideology conditions incels to retroactively classify other people as "chads", "stacies" and "incels". Your perception has been tainted by categories that were never valid to begin with.

[Arlenton]

I don't necessarily equate masculinity with who is the "strongest". In fact I'm pretty slim and not muscular at all. I think it's more of a mental rather than physical thing. Just acting masculine is masculine.

Acting masculine is a physical thing. Acting out anything is physical.

But fine, what pray tell, is masculine to you?

Trying to take charge, competing with other males, being self reliant, making yourself be wanted, and yeah there is physical stuff like either camping or sports or hunting.

It's not always "who is the biggest". If it was, my scrawny 5'7 ass wouldn't be supporting it.

[Liriena]

Apparently, if there's a picture of you smiling with your mouth wide open that's "beta"??????

Also, whenever someone unironically talks about "alpha" and "beta" males, my mind immediately goes to this stuff.

It’s a meme.

"Ah, but you see, I was only pretending to be a drooling imbecile for kek!"

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Also, it must needs be remarked that, at one point, every girl (and sometimes their mothers) wanted to bang Bill Kaulitz far more than his conventionally masculine twin.

And Prince, can't forget Prince.

And now whoever did that Hit or Miss TikTok skit.

[Arlenton]

I do see "alpha" and "beta" types in our society.

Because scientifically illiterate grifters have conditioned you to retroactively apply those categories to the people around you, much in the same way that incel ideology conditions incels to retroactively classify other people as "chads", "stacies" and "incels". Your perception has been tainted by categories that were never valid to begin with.

Not saying you're wrong, but I seem to see the whole "alpha" and "beta" thing. For both males and females.

Some guys make themselves alpha. Some make them Beta. I've seen it plenty. Are we all conditioned to do this?

[Costa Fierro]

Doesn't change the fact that plenty of women around the world are quite vocal about the fact that, yes, they do find pretty, non-masculine men attractive.

It's a tad more complex than that. A woman might say she's attracted to a non-masculine man not because she's sexually attracted to him, but because of what he represents: stability and continuity. A man who looks traditionally masculine may be what she truly desires in terms of physical attractiveness, but because he's likely also getting attention from dozens of other women, she may not even garner his attention or even be what he's looking for in a partner, and thus she has to "broaden her horizons" (read lower her standards) in order to find that kind of stability and continuity in a partner. It's also why men who have their "life sorted" are also seen as attractive. She's not going to be attracted to him sexually, but she desires that stability in a relationship. Saying they're attracted to non-masculine men is merely a justification for why they're with their partners.

Cue those trying to claim I'm calling women gold diggers. Here's the kicker: you don't have to be rich to be stable.

[Liriena]

...at no point was I trying to argue that, since the world is unjust, we might as well enjoy its "benevolent" injustices and do nothing about it. I was trying to argue the opposite. Dafuq, dude?

Oh, it came across as you defending the women who prefer sexist men because they're sexist and they're trading off the benefits of sexism for the downsides.

You were actually criticizing them? It didn't come off that way.

I was trying to think critically about it, have a bit of nuance, try to empathize... No use in just saying "sexism bad", since I thought that'd be a foregone conclusion at this point.

[Costa Fierro]

And Prince, can't forget Prince.

And now whoever did that Hit or Miss TikTok skit.

The German guy with all that anime shit?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

It’s a meme.

"Ah, but you see, I was only pretending to be a drooling imbecile for kek!"

>when you you have to make something that was a joke for the majority of its existence into something serious so as to create something you can criticise
I would say I’m surprised, but I’m not.

[New haven america]

Because scientifically illiterate grifters have conditioned you to retroactively apply those categories to the people around you, much in the same way that incel ideology conditions incels to retroactively classify other people as "chads", "stacies" and "incels". Your perception has been tainted by categories that were never valid to begin with.

Not saying you're wrong, but I seem to see the whole "alpha" and "beta" thing. For both males and females.

Some guys make themselves alpha. Some make them Beta. I've seen it plenty. Are we all conditioned to do this?

Ok, then who are the deltas, omegas, and gammas?

Also, if you want to go with the debunked Alpha/Beta setup, then you have to realize that betas are actually really fucking dangerous, as they're placed 2nd in the social hierarchy, not last (Which is where gammas and omegas tend to lie) and tend to take more responsibility in hunting and defending the pack than alphas do (As alphas have a tendency to be lazy bastards).

[Liriena]

Because scientifically illiterate grifters have conditioned you to retroactively apply those categories to the people around you, much in the same way that incel ideology conditions incels to retroactively classify other people as "chads", "stacies" and "incels". Your perception has been tainted by categories that were never valid to begin with.

Not saying you're wrong, but I seem to see the whole "alpha" and "beta" thing. For both males and females.

Some guys make themselves alpha. Some make them Beta. I've seen it plenty. Are we all conditioned to do this?

Gender expression is far too complex to be narrowed down to a simplistic hierarchy of "alphas" and "betas". It only seems so cut and dry because the categories themselves exist to encourage a simplistic, myopic perception of others' behavior.

[Galloism]

Oh, it came across as you defending the women who prefer sexist men because they're sexist and they're trading off the benefits of sexism for the downsides.

You were actually criticizing them? It didn't come off that way.

I was trying to think critically about it, have a bit of nuance, try to empathize... No use in just saying "sexism bad", since I thought that'd be a foregone conclusion at this point.

Heh, you would think wrong.

Socially speaking, anyway, we only really view sexism as bad if it negatively impacts women. Sexism that negatively impacts men society doesn't give one shit about. Heck, there's plenty of people trying to literally redefine sexism so it can't be sexism if men are the ones impacted.

Sexism that negatively impacts men is expected. In fact, if you fail to engage in it, the average person views you as sexist. That's why I linked to that.

As a society, we would not tolerate a video such as this telling women to police other women for sexism against men like this. And maybe we should - it wouldn't be so bad if it was equal. But then again, I'm ok with a lot of futures, so long as they're equal. Even shitty equal is better than shitty unequal.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

And now whoever did that Hit or Miss TikTok skit.

The German guy with all that anime shit?

Yes, the German guy with all that anime shit.

Who for some...reason looks like a crossover between that one blonde girl from that one particular anime (except with black hair) and Diva from Overwatch.

[New haven america]

Acting masculine is a physical thing. Acting out anything is physical.

But fine, what pray tell, is masculine to you?

1. Trying to take charge, 2. competing with other males, 3.being self reliant, 4. making yourself be wanted, 5. and yeah there is physical stuff like either camping or sports or hunting.

It's not always "who is the biggest". If it was, my scrawny 5'7 ass wouldn't be supporting it.

1. Not specifically masculine behavior
2. Stupid behavior
3. Behavior everyone should be capable of
4. Emotional insecurity
5. Interests that aren't gender specific

I personally view masculinity as not giving a fuck about what's considered traditionally masculine or not and just doing what you want to do.

[Liriena]

"Ah, but you see, I was only pretending to be a drooling imbecile for kek!"

>when you you have to make something that was a joke for the majority of its existence into something serious so as to create something you can criticise

Except far right grifters have been using the "meme" unironically for years to demonize vast groups of people as somehow being "biologically" inferior. Renowned fraud with an accent, PJW, took it to its ultimate conclusion with his talk of the "tofu eating male feminist beta orbiter soyboy", which combined two wonderfully stupid examples of male chauvinist pseudo-science and, when he got debunked, he threw a very omega hissy fit.

[Costa Fierro]

The German guy with all that anime shit?

Yes, the German guy with all that anime shit.

Who for some...reason looks like a crossover between that one blonde girl from that one particular anime (except with black hair) and Diva from Overwatch.

I believe it's just him being...um...I want to say satirical but for the most part it's just fucking bizarre.

[New haven america]

Yes, the German guy with all that anime shit.

Who for some...reason looks like a crossover between that one blonde girl from that one particular anime (except with black hair) and Diva from Overwatch.

I believe it's just him being...um...I want to say satirical but for the most part it's just fucking bizarre.

To some people, fucking bizarre is sexy.

[Liriena]

As a society, we would not tolerate a video such as this telling women to police other women for sexism against men like this.

Wouldn't we, though? If it were framed in similar terms as the ad did?

[Liriena]

I believe it's just him being...um...I want to say satirical but for the most part it's just fucking bizarre.

To some people, fucking bizarre is sexy.

See: Contrapoints.

[Liriena]

Also, it must needs be remarked that, at one point, every girl (and sometimes their mothers) wanted to bang Bill Kaulitz far more than his conventionally masculine twin.

And Prince, can't forget Prince.

And Bowie.

[Galloism]

As a society, we would not tolerate a video such as this telling women to police other women for sexism against men like this.

Wouldn't we, though? If it were framed in similar terms as the ad did?

Not a chance.

[New haven america]

And Prince, can't forget Prince.

And Bowie.

And Freddie Mercury.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Yes, the German guy with all that anime shit.

Who for some...reason looks like a crossover between that one blonde girl from that one particular anime (except with black hair) and Diva from Overwatch.

I believe it's just him being...um...I want to say satirical but for the most part it's just fucking bizarre.

Non-conforming can be attractive, y'know...

That's kind of one of the reasons why trends like goths exist.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

>when you you have to make something that was a joke for the majority of its existence into something serious so as to create something you can criticise

Except far right grifters have been using the "meme" unironically for years to demonize vast groups of people as somehow being "biologically" inferior. Renowned fraud with an accent, PJW, took it to its ultimate conclusion with his talk of the "tofu eating male feminist beta orbiter soyboy", which combined two wonderfully stupid examples of male chauvinist pseudo-science and, when he got debunked, he threw a very omega hissy fit.

So a fairly small minority uses it seriously and now it isn’t a joke?

[Arlenton]

1. Trying to take charge, 2. competing with other males, 3.being self reliant, 4. making yourself be wanted, 5. and yeah there is physical stuff like either camping or sports or hunting.

It's not always "who is the biggest". If it was, my scrawny 5'7 ass wouldn't be supporting it.

1. Not specifically masculine behavior
2. Stupid behavior
3. Behavior everyone should be capable of
4. Emotional insecurity
5. Interests that aren't gender specific

I personally view masculinity as not giving a fuck about what's considered traditionally masculine or not and just doing what you want to do.

Glad to know your opinion on what masculinity is I guess.