The best that men can get..

[Torrocca]

Holy shit the doubling-down makes this even more golden.

Speaking of picking and choosing, i'm rather pleased that in your digging that's the best you could come up with.

I could come up with more, but I'll let that be our working example to showcase your hypocrisy right now with your concern for things here.

Specifically, your "concern" about all Muslims being labeled as terrorists (to be used as an equivalence to all men being labeled as evil) despite doing no better and literally saying, "all Muslims are colonizers!!1!"

It's fucking golden, alright.

[Ostroeuropa]

Speaking of picking and choosing, i'm rather pleased that in your digging that's the best you could come up with.

I could come up with more, but I'll let that be our working example to showcase your hypocrisy right now with your concern for things here.

Specifically, your "concern" about all Muslims being labeled as terrorists (to be used as an equivalence to all men being labeled as evil) despite doing no better and literally saying, "all Muslims are colonizers!!1!"

It's fucking golden, alright.

You apparently don't understand context or the argument being made. There is no aspect of male ideology where we are forced to believe something is the literal word of god where it is written that we must behave a certain way for you to be able to go;' "Well they're either heretics, or they're this thing the text says.".

So no, Tor, i'm not literally saying "All muslims are colonizers."

I'm saying the Quran says they are. Much like it isn't anti-christian or disparaging and demonizing them to note that, hey, the bible says to stone gays.

As for putting scare quotes around concern, i'm consistent on the issue that framing terrorism as a muslim issue is a disservice to them and to our society.

So your comparison of the two isn't actually any good. Try digging harder, if you're so desperate, because this one isn't it.

Do you think it's stupid to object about Terrorism being constantly portrayed as a Muslim thing by the news and so on?

A little bit, yes.

Other terrorism from other religious and political extremists should also be highlighted. Infact, I'd say Incels are possibly the new front for terrorism attacks.

Shooting up sororities and schools beacuse women don't let him be there fuck pillow. Of course this also exists on the woman's side .

If it was more about incels, the world might invest more in mental healthcare so that we can prevent the insanity that overcomes these people.

Then you understand why the advert is offensive, especially as it uses terminology and ideas from a movement where even the notion of "Non-musllim terrorists" (Women sexist against men) existing is controversial and fiercely contested and denied by many, especially in mainstream media. Not even the media depictions of muslims went so far as to openly claim you HAD to be a muslim to be a terrorist.

And this is the movement that the advert is aping the rhetoric of, that is the context of its appearance on our screens, it is next to those people saying those things. Rank and file feminists might whine and pretend otherwise, but the fact is, the feminism in front of us, sold to us and so on, is very anti-male and overwhelmingly denies misandry exists.

Incels are a potentially dangerous political group yes.

[Torrocca]

I could come up with more, but I'll let that be our working example to showcase your hypocrisy right now with your concern for things here.

Specifically, your "concern" about all Muslims being labeled as terrorists (to be used as an equivalence to all men being labeled as evil) despite doing no better and literally saying, "all Muslims are colonizers!!1!"

It's fucking golden, alright.

You apparently don't understand context or the argument being made. There is no aspect of male ideology where we are forced to believe something is the literal word of god where it is written that we must behave a certain way for you to be able to go;' "Well they're either heretics, or they're this thing the text says.".

So no, Tor, i'm not literally saying "All muslims are colonizers."

Yeah, I'm sure that's what you meant when you specifically said, "The only reason muslims would travel to a non-muslim country is to colonize us." - even with the addendum of it being something written in the Quran.

It's almost like, shockingly enough, not everything that someone does is done on the basis of their beliefs.

I'm saying the Quran says they are. Much like it isn't anti-christian or disparaging and demonizing them to note that, hey, the bible says to stone gays.

By that shitty fucking argument, you could make the same exact case that all Muslims are terrorists by virtue of the Quran's talks about Jihad and what it means. It's almost like people don't follow religions to the letter, especially not the shittier parts, nor should they be expected to.

[Proctopeo]

What riveting discussion, but I don't think it's relevant to a dumb razor ad.

[Torrocca]

What riveting discussion, but I don't think it's relevant to a dumb razor ad.

Even Muslims need to shave. Checkmate, liberals

[Ifreann]

What riveting discussion, but I don't think it's relevant to a dumb razor ad.

Even Muslims need to shave. Checkmate, liberals

Muslims don't need to shave, though.

[Gospel Power]

Just another cry of the war on masculinity.

[Torrocca]

Even Muslims need to shave. Checkmate, liberals

Muslims don't need to shave, though.

Muslims need a means to shave if they want to, then. :3

[Ifreann]

Muslims don't need to shave, though.

Muslims need a means to shave if they want to, then. :3

That's more like it. No beardshaming here.

[Liriena]

So no, Tor, i'm not literally saying "All muslims are colonizers."

I'm saying the Quran says they are.

Bigotry is okay when it's second-hand.

Y'all can find this and other nuclear hot takes in the "I can't believe it's not fascism!" anthology of trademarked Ostro rationalizations.

Anyway, this nugget brings us back to your previous fake concern over Islamophobia in media as analogous to the supposed misandry in a milquetoast aspirational Gillette ad whose message was "be excellent to each other, dudes" .

Do you think it's stupid to object about Terrorism being constantly portrayed as a Muslim thing by the news and so on?

Which led to me inquiring:

Wait... I thought the progressive cultural hegemony was almost self-destructively Islamophile?

So do Muslims get constantly demonized or don't they?

[Torrocca]

Muslims need a means to shave if they want to, then. :3

That's more like it. No beardshaming here.

Protect the beards that men want to have, and destroy the beards that they don't want to have! :3

[Liriena]

Just another cry of the war on masculinity.

some advertiser: "dudes, don't be dicks. being kind and caring is manlier anyway"

reactionaries and MRAs: "there is a war on masculinity!!!111!!! i'm gonna dump all my razor blades in the toilet!!! ;-;"

[Liriena]

Just another cry of the war on masculinity.

some advertiser: "dudes, don't be dicks. being kind and caring is manlier anyway"

reactionaries and MRAs: "there is a war on masculinity!!!111!!! i'm gonna dump all my razor blades in the toilet!!! ;-;"

If this ad makes some guys feel like their masculinity is in peril... does that mean I have, like, a titanium masculinity or something? Because I feel remarkably safe and unscathed after watching that ad... give or take the cringe I usually get when I watch self-serious 'woke' advertising.

[Galloism]

Just another cry of the war on masculinity.

some advertiser: "dudes, don't be dicks. being kind and caring is manlier anyway"

reactionaries and MRAs: "there is a war on masculinity!!!111!!! i'm gonna dump all my razor blades in the toilet!!! ;-;"

Again, if it were something done to everyone regardless of race or gender, it would probably be fine. If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway" I don't think it would be worth complaining about. Equality is good. A social norm where calling out groups in this fashion is acceptable would be fine.

This is not our reality. We can impugn entire groups only when they are the correct groups. This plays into that.

In essence, imagine a "war on black crime" ad.

[Liriena]

some advertiser: "dudes, don't be dicks. being kind and caring is manlier anyway"

reactionaries and MRAs: "there is a war on masculinity!!!111!!! i'm gonna dump all my razor blades in the toilet!!! ;-;"

Again, if it were something done to everyone regardless of race or gender, it would probably be fine. If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway" I don't think it would be worth complaining about. Equality is good. A social norm where calling out groups in this fashion is acceptable would be fine.

This is not our reality. We can impugn entire groups only when they are the correct groups. This plays into that.

In essence, imagine a "war on black crime" ad.

But if we accept this argument, then the ad, in and of itself, is not a problem. It's the absence of other ads that is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯

[Ostroeuropa]

So no, Tor, i'm not literally saying "All muslims are colonizers."

I'm saying the Quran says they are.

Bigotry is okay when it's second-hand.

Y'all can find this and other nuclear hot takes in the "I can't believe it's not fascism!" anthology of trademarked Ostro rationalizations.

Anyway, this nugget brings us back to your previous fake concern over Islamophobia in media as analogous to the supposed misandry in a milquetoast aspirational Gillette ad whose message was "be excellent to each other, dudes" .

Do you think it's stupid to object about Terrorism being constantly portrayed as a Muslim thing by the news and so on?

Which led to me inquiring:

Wait... I thought the progressive cultural hegemony was almost self-destructively Islamophile?

So do Muslims get constantly demonized or don't they?

It's not fake concern. I've been very clear that the issue of terrorism is overstated by the media and misrepresents the issue drastically, moreover that it is a sporadic and isolated thing that rarely occurs, and that there are bigger concerns to worry about with Islamic culture than terrorism. There's a good chance Muslims kill as many British citizens by practicing circumcision as they do by committing terrorism, and the victims are children, and it includes a 100% injury rate, moreover it is a practice the overwhelming majority of them partake in. Atheist citizens too, practically speaking, and i'll admit that matters to me a little. There's also issues where proper criticism of they is disallowed due to progressive influence.

Just another cry of the war on masculinity.

some advertiser: "dudes, don't be dicks. being kind and caring is manlier anyway"

reactionaries and MRAs: "there is a war on masculinity!!!111!!! i'm gonna dump all my razor blades in the toilet!!! ;-;"

Criticism of masculinity and the harm it does others outside the context of critical analysis of femininity is not healthy for individuals nor society. Much like a propoganda campaign to paint a particular culture as full of rape and bullying and so on while ignoring those things in your culture occuring to a similar extent would be a propaganda war on that culture. There is a war on men and masculinity in the media. Denying it at this point is willful ignorance imo.

[Ostroeuropa]

Again, if it were something done to everyone regardless of race or gender, it would probably be fine. If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway" I don't think it would be worth complaining about. Equality is good. A social norm where calling out groups in this fashion is acceptable would be fine.

This is not our reality. We can impugn entire groups only when they are the correct groups. This plays into that.

In essence, imagine a "war on black crime" ad.

But if we accept this argument, then the ad, in and of itself, is not a problem. It's the absence of other ads that is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯

It is produced by an explicit feminist and so cannot be divorced from the fact that this is the media environment produced by employing feminists in the media since that is usually the case in all the other examples too. The ad itself is the problem because it is the ideology of the person behind the camera being expressed, it is not merely a coincidence or something, rather, it is a product of their worldview and we know what media environment that worldview leads to. In systemic terms, it is sexism against men that this is the media environment. That means this advert is contributing to that norm and to sexism. The ad itself is therefore problematic.

But yes Lir.

If we sacked over 99% of feminists, the remaining 1% wouldn't be able to flood the waves with their prejudice and we'd be better off. congratulations. It's only a problem because it's so prevalent and normalized.

[Liriena]

But if we accept this argument, then the ad, in and of itself, is not a problem. It's the absence of other ads that is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯

It is produced by an explicit feminist and so cannot be divorced from the fact that this is the media environment produced by employing feminists in the media since that is usually the case in all the other examples too. The ad itself is the problem because it is the ideology of the person behind the camera being expressed, it is not merely a coincidence or something, rather, it is a product of their worldview and we know what media environment that worldview leads to.

A media environment where a shitty razor company encourages its core target audience to be nice and also some lip-service to #MeToo because advertising loves to piggyback off popular movements?

[Ostroeuropa]

It is produced by an explicit feminist and so cannot be divorced from the fact that this is the media environment produced by employing feminists in the media since that is usually the case in all the other examples too. The ad itself is the problem because it is the ideology of the person behind the camera being expressed, it is not merely a coincidence or something, rather, it is a product of their worldview and we know what media environment that worldview leads to.

A media environment where a shitty razor company encourages its core target audience to be nice and also some lip-service to #MeToo because advertising loves to piggyback off popular movements?

It's not a popular movement according to polls Lir. This is an elite ideology being pushed on the public against their will. You're again ignoring the negatives of the argument which have been painstakingly pointed out to you.

[British Tackeettlaus]

If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway"

Being kind and caring are stereotypical feminine traits anyway. An ad for women like that probably wouldn't have much impact. More impactful would be ads where women are tough and strong, adopting stereotypical male traits. Advertisers do this all the time. The "strong women" is the equivalent of "sensitive man" in this trope.

The whole point is subverting stereotypes not reinforcing them, so a "black crime" ad would be kind of missing the point,

[Galloism]

Again, if it were something done to everyone regardless of race or gender, it would probably be fine. If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway" I don't think it would be worth complaining about. Equality is good. A social norm where calling out groups in this fashion is acceptable would be fine.

This is not our reality. We can impugn entire groups only when they are the correct groups. This plays into that.

In essence, imagine a "war on black crime" ad.

But if we accept this argument, then the ad, in and of itself, is not a problem. It's the absence of other ads that is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯

You could say that, but then again, that would be true of literally every form of discrimination ever.

"Police disproportionately targeting black men is not a problem. The absence of targeting white women that is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯"

Or perhaps, "Men being marked down based on being men is not a problem. The absence of marking down women is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯"

Or perhaps, "Women feeling compelled to do childcare is not a problem. The absence of men feeling compelled to do childcare is the problem, which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯"

Or perhaps, "Black people having less financial resources than white people based on race is not a problem. The excess of resources among white people is the problem, in which case... eh? ¯\_(o_o)_/¯"

This applies to every single form of discrimination, without even a single exception.

[Ostroeuropa]

If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway"

Being kind and caring are stereotypical feminine traits anyway. An ad for women like that probably wouldn't have much impact. More impactful would be ads where women are tough and strong, adopting stereotypical male traits. Advertisers do this all the time. The "strong women" is the equivalent of "sensitive man" in this trope.

The whole point is subverting stereotypes not reinforcing them, so a "black crime" ad would be kind of missing the point,

Then you'd need an advert calling on them to take responsibility for the violence and abuse they do of others and subvert the stereotype that they are not those things for it to be equivalent. Especially as this advert was, in fact, framing this as something society "tolerates" and treats as "Okay" and needs to stop. (Untrue for men, true for women and their violence/abuse of others.).

So the exact same message can be used.

"It's not okay when a woman does it, this is normalized and needs to stop." and so on.

[Ifreann]

That's more like it. No beardshaming here.

Protect the beards that men want to have, and destroy the beards that they don't want to have! :3

Seize the means of grooming!

---

Just another cry of the war on masculinity.

some advertiser: "dudes, don't be dicks. being kind and caring is manlier anyway"

reactionaries and MRAs: "there is a war on masculinity!!!111!!! i'm gonna dump all my razor blades in the toilet!!! ;-;"

Me, a genius, reaching into my toilet to retrieve my Gillette razor: "And those stupid feminists thought I was going to flush it"

[Galloism]

If there were equivalent advertisements about "women, don't be bitches. being kind and caring and not abusing people is more feminine anyway"

Being kind and caring are stereotypical feminine traits anyway. An ad for women like that probably wouldn't have much impact. More impactful would be ads where women are tough and strong, adopting stereotypical male traits. Advertisers do this all the time. The "strong women" is the equivalent of "sensitive man" in this trope.

The whole point is subverting stereotypes not reinforcing them, so a "black crime" ad would be kind of missing the point,

Being "bitchy" is also a stereotypical feminine trait. Stereotypes often don't make sense and conflict frequently.

It's basically a trait of stereotypes.

[Liriena]

A media environment where a shitty razor company encourages its core target audience to be nice and also some lip-service to #MeToo because advertising loves to piggyback off popular movements?

It's not a popular movement according to polls Lir. This is an elite ideology being pushed on the public against their will.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/31/66217831 ... han-gender

Most — 69 percent — of more than 1,000 Americans surveyed, say the movement has created a climate in which offenders will now be held accountable. But more than 40 percent feel the movement has gone too far.

We have a plurality that feels the movement "has gone too far". A plurality apparently comprised largely by... wait for it... Republican voters. IE: reactionaries.

"According to our research, when there's a conflict between gender and party, party wins," she says. "That's what going to drive [people's] attitudes."

One of the most stark partisan divides is whether the #MeToo movement has gone too far. Overall, 43 percent say it has. But broken down by party, that includes three-quarters of Republicans compared to less than one quarter of Democrats. The split reflects a backlash to the #MeToo movement that's been growing since the recent controversy around now-Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, whose nomination was threatened by accusations of sexual misconduct.

It's partisan.

Also, I don't know how stuff is back in the US, but over here it has definitely been a popular movement. And calling it an elite ideology when the people most negatively and prominently affected by it have been part of the socioeconomic elite... yeah, I think I'm going to put this on the list of things I'm calling "signs that Ostro is only astroturfing as a leftist".