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Religious Tests On The Rise

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:11 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Eh, seems cool on my partial reading of his wiki page, but considering that Judaism is around during his time, I'll stick with the Jews.

They don't want you. Even Jesus said he came for the lost children of Israel.

Apart from the whole thing being a Roman plot to subvert them I mean.
Last edited by Pagan Trapistan on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:15 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Eh, seems cool on my partial reading of his wiki page, but considering that Judaism is around during his time, I'll stick with the Jews.

They don't want you.

I'm talking about if I were in that time period. If was now, I'd stick to being Muslim and probs wouldn't give incense to Caesar.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
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https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

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Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:19 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm talking about if I were in that time period. If was now, I'd stick to being Muslim and probs wouldn't give incense to Caesar.

Then you don't really have any loyalty to the state and can't make a good judge unless its a Sharia court.

Also youre an atheist that doesn't believe in the gods.
Last edited by Pagan Trapistan on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:19 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm talking about if I were in that time period. If was now, I'd stick to being Muslim and probs wouldn't give incense to Caesar.

Then you don't really have any loyalty to the state and can't make a good judge unless its a Sharia court.

Correct.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Camelone
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Postby Camelone » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:20 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm talking about if I were in that time period. If was now, I'd stick to being Muslim and probs wouldn't give incense to Caesar.

Then you don't really have any loyalty to the state and can't make a good judge unless its a Sharia court.

Also youre an atheist that doesn't believe in the gods.

Idolatry =/= Loyalty to the homeland
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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:22 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Correct.

At least he admits it, the Christians deceitfully pretend they belong in a secular court.
Last edited by Pagan Trapistan on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:23 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:Also youre an atheist that doesn't believe in the gods.

Please read my sig. And this.
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Please read my sig.

Ok, psuedo-atheist that believes only in the god of the jews.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:24 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Correct.

At least he admits it, the Christians deceitfully pretend they belong in a secular court.

I didn't say anything about Christians. And you need to stop stereotyping.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:25 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Please read my sig.

Ok, psuedo-atheist that believes only in the god of the jews.

I'm not an atheist at all.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:25 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Pagan Trapistan wrote:Also youre an atheist that doesn't believe in the gods.

Please read my sig. And this.


He is referring to the saying

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

(or similar - it is quite common)
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:26 pm

Camelone wrote:Idolatry =/= Loyalty to the homeland

Idolatatry is just a Christian scareword. No one believes the statues are actually the gods.

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Camelone
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Postby Camelone » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:26 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Pagan Trapistan wrote:Ok, psuedo-atheist that believes only in the god of the jews.

I'm not an atheist at all.

El-Amin I would recommend stop responding it appears they are not discussing with good faith or they just have a rather odd way of viewing the world.
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
Neutral: Constitutions, Guild Socialism, Libertarianism, Constitution Party, monarchism
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:27 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Please read my sig. And this.


He is referring to the saying

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

(or similar - it is quite common)

Ok, but that quote isn't right. That's not what atheism is.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:27 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm not an atheist at all.

Do you believe in the gods?

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:28 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:I'm not an atheist at all.

Do you believe in the gods?

No. I'm not polytheistic.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:28 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
He is referring to the saying

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

(or similar - it is quite common)

Ok, but that quote isn't right. That's not what atheism is.


Well,it is somewhat true. You are atheistic to Thor, Vishnu, Zeus and the flying spaghetti monster.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:33 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:No. I'm not polytheistic.

So you go to India and theres tons of spiritual shit going on and its dead to you?

Just trying to get a handle on this not-an-atheist thing.
Last edited by Pagan Trapistan on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:34 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:No. I'm not polytheistic.

So you go to India and theres tons of spiritual sh*t going on and its dead to you?

This isn't the thread for this. And since I don't think there is a thread made that's relevant to this, I'll just telegram you.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Publica
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Postby Publica » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:36 pm

You can argue this is a religious test. I get where you're coming from. I argue that this is the questioning of people's beliefs instead. Unless I miss my guess, not every Catholic believes that abortion is wrong, even if a majority does. I do think that the questions listed could have been asked better, but I don't see it as a religious test. I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".
So soon may I follow,
When friendships decay,
And from Love's shining circle
The gems drop away.
When true hearts lie withered,
And fond ones are flown,
Oh! who would inhabit
This bleak world alone?

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Pagan Trapistan
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Postby Pagan Trapistan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:42 pm

Publica wrote:I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".

Yes, the state should work with discriminating catholics until we can get the Roman festivals going again and get people actually loyal to the state.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:43 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
Publica wrote:I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".

Yes, the state should work with discriminating catholics until we can get the Roman festivals going again and get people actually loyal to the state.

Which Roman festivals? And why should Catholics be discriminated against?
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Camelone
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Postby Camelone » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:45 pm

Publica wrote:You can argue this is a religious test. I get where you're coming from. I argue that this is the questioning of people's beliefs instead. Unless I miss my guess, not every Catholic believes that abortion is wrong, even if a majority does. I do think that the questions listed could have been asked better, but I don't see it as a religious test. I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".

Questions should more revolve around the judicial philosophy of the individual judge then whether or not they believe x, y, or z of their particular church. Plus examining their previous rulings instead of bringing up the candidates religion is more efficient then beating around the bush, the previous rulings are more important anyways than these questions as they show how the judge operates and thinks in their role as a judge.
Dissenting High Church Episcopalian, American Jacobite with a Byzantine flair for extra spice
I am... the lurker!
Ave Rex Christus!

Pro: The Social Kingship of Christ, Society of King Charles the Martyr, Corporatism, Distributism, Tradition based Christianity, High Tory, Hierarchy, vanguard republicanism, Official Nationality
Neutral: Constitutions, Guild Socialism, Libertarianism, Constitution Party, monarchism
Against: Communism, socialism, SJWs, materialism, the Democratic Republican Uniparty, material Egalitarianism
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Publica
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Founded: May 25, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Publica » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:47 pm

Pagan Trapistan wrote:
Publica wrote:I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".

Yes, the state should work with discriminating catholics until we can get the Roman festivals going again and get people actually loyal to the state.


I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Or if you think I believe that's what we should do.

Camelone wrote:
Publica wrote:You can argue this is a religious test. I get where you're coming from. I argue that this is the questioning of people's beliefs instead. Unless I miss my guess, not every Catholic believes that abortion is wrong, even if a majority does. I do think that the questions listed could have been asked better, but I don't see it as a religious test. I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".

Questions should more revolve around the judicial philosophy of the individual judge then whether or not they believe x, y, or z of their particular church. Plus examining their previous rulings instead of bringing up the candidates religion is more efficient then beating around the bush, the previous rulings are more important anyways than these questions as they show how the judge operates and thinks in their role as a judge.


I agree, but no one would bat an eye if an atheist was asked if they agreed with abortion or not, when questioned before becoming a judge, would they?
So soon may I follow,
When friendships decay,
And from Love's shining circle
The gems drop away.
When true hearts lie withered,
And fond ones are flown,
Oh! who would inhabit
This bleak world alone?

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Scomagia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:47 pm

Publica wrote:You can argue this is a religious test. I get where you're coming from. I argue that this is the questioning of people's beliefs instead. Unless I miss my guess, not every Catholic believes that abortion is wrong, even if a majority does. I do think that the questions listed could have been asked better, but I don't see it as a religious test. I do think this could descend into blatant religious testing very easily, and so needs to be watched carefully, but for now the questions seem to be "do you believe in x like most Catholics?" rather than "are you a Catholic?".

The implicit assumption is that if you hold the beliefs of most Catholics your ability to make an impartial ruling on those matters is compromised. That's an asinine assumption. Judges aren't supposed to rule based on personal belief but, rather, based on the Constitution and existing jurisprudence. The idea that being a traditional catholic impairs your ability to do that is blatant bigotry.
Insert trite farewell here

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