Denver and New York State Bans Conversion Therapy

[San Lumen]

Great news, hopefully the state government, and eventually the other remaining 35 states & all territories of the Union will ban the vile practice of conversion therapy for minors.

Colorado probably will. The state capital banning it could very well provide a catalyst for other municipalities and the state government to do so.

[Des-Bal]

How?

Because it's based on the idea that invisible problems with your spine effect the "innate intelligence" that controls every aspect of your body and results in you being unhealthy. This is demonstrably not true so to preserve itself Chiropractic "medicine" teaches that the scientific method shouldn't be trusted and the the best way to operate is on deductions from vitalistic (read: magical) thought.

[Des-Bal]

and the vast majority of the time is minors who are subjected to this abuse therefore if you ban it for minors it is effectively outlawed

So you agree that outlawing the practice for minors would be sufficient?

[San Lumen]

and the vast majority of the time is minors who are subjected to this abuse therefore if you ban it for minors it is effectively outlawed

So you agree that outlawing the practice for minors would be sufficient?

Is that not what I just said?

[Scomagia]

If a consenting adult wants to let someone else try to change their sexuality, then by all means they should be free to do so. But that isn't the problem, the problem is that minors are subjected to this heinous abuse.

and the vast majority of the time is minors who are subjected to this abuse therefore if you ban it for minors it is effectively outlawed

Indeed. Minors arguably can't make an informed decision on the matter and are extremely vulnerable to being coerced into conversion "therapy". That seems reasonable enough to me.

[Des-Bal]

Is that not what I just said?

just verifying.

Regardless I don't think a ban is conscinable anywhere that other forms of hokum are freely practiced.

[Vassenor]

Is that not what I just said?

just verifying.

Regardless I don't think a ban is conscinable anywhere that other forms of hokum are freely practiced.

So why should that make it legal for Parents to have people torture their children into being something they are not?

[Liriena]

I'd sure love to see everyone involved in providing this sort of "therapy" retroactively prosecuted and made to stand trial for being gigantic assholes who helped ruin the lives of many LGBT+ people either by force or by fraud.

[San Lumen]

I'd sure love to see everyone involved in providing this sort of "therapy" retroactively prosecuted and made to stand trial for being gigantic assholes who helped ruin the lives of many LGBT+ people either by force or by fraud.

I wouldn't have an issue with them being prosecuted for child abuse

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

just verifying.

Regardless I don't think a ban is conscinable anywhere that other forms of hokum are freely practiced.

So why should that make it legal for Parents to have people torture their children into being something they are not?

Did you not read their post above yours?

and the vast majority of the time is minors who are subjected to this abuse therefore if you ban it for minors it is effectively outlawed

So you agree that outlawing the practice for minors would be sufficient?

[Des-Bal]

So why should that make it legal for Parents to have people torture their children into being something they are not?

It shouldn't be. If someone's beating children with a hose punish them for that and leave conversion therapy out of it.

Of course one could say the same thing about Chiropractic care.

[Scomagia]

I'd sure love to see everyone involved in providing this sort of "therapy" retroactively prosecuted and made to stand trial for being gigantic assholes who helped ruin the lives of many LGBT+ people either by force or by fraud.

Yeah, that's a shit idea. Thankfully our legal system doesn't work in such a tyrannical and capricious fashion.

[Des-Bal]

I wouldn't have an issue with them being prosecuted for child abuse

I would because that would be an ex post facto law.

[San Lumen]

I wouldn't have an issue with them being prosecuted for child abuse

I would because that would be an ex post facto law.

Yes that is true. I forgot about that

[Internationalist Bastard]

Good, torturing yourself to conform to society is a sign that society sucks

[Scomagia]

I'm familiar with the harm caused by conversion "therapy" but I wonder if anyone has actually studied whether the harm comes from the methods themselves or from being forced into it? It would be an important distinction.

[San Lumen]

I'm familiar with the harm caused by conversion "therapy" but I wonder if anyone has actually studied whether the harm comes from the methods themselves or from being forced into it? It would be an important distinction.

The methods themselves are quite brutal. It involves things like electric shock and thats only scratching the surface. I probubly can't say some others as it violates the PG-13 rule

[Major-Tom]

Banning forced conversion therapy is fine. Banning people from undertaking it willingly is less fine with me. Require the providers to make it clear that there's no documented effectiveness to their "therapy", but don't prohibit people from making the choice to try it.

Nanny statism is terrible.

From what I've read and heard purely anecdotally, many minors can be coerced or even forced into it by not so well-meaning parents. I think a ban on this practice is totally appropriate.

[Scomagia]

Banning forced conversion therapy is fine. Banning people from undertaking it willingly is less fine with me. Require the providers to make it clear that there's no documented effectiveness to their "therapy", but don't prohibit people from making the choice to try it.

Nanny statism is terrible.

From what I've read and heard purely anecdotally, many minors can be coerced or even forced into it by not so well-meaning parents. I think a ban on this practice is totally appropriate.

Adults can make informed decisions, minors cannot. It's wholly inappropriate to tell adults they can't do something because it may be bad for them.

[San Lumen]

From what I've read and heard purely anecdotally, many minors can be coerced or even forced into it by not so well-meaning parents. I think a ban on this practice is totally appropriate.

Adults can make informed decisions, minors cannot. It's wholly inappropriate to tell adults they can't do something because it may be bad for them.

and very few adults go through it.

[Boy George]

I'd sure love to see everyone involved in providing this sort of "therapy" retroactively prosecuted and made to stand trial for being gigantic assholes who helped ruin the lives of many LGBT+ people either by force or by fraud.

Yeah, that's a shit idea. Thankfully our legal system doesn't work in such a tyrannical and capricious fashion.

I hate to say that I agree with that. I am all for banning this practice, as I've had my own brush with it, but its not at any time ok to change a law then punish retroactively. Once people started it would never stop.

[San Lumen]

Yeah, that's a shit idea. Thankfully our legal system doesn't work in such a tyrannical and capricious fashion.

I hate to say that I agree with that. I am all for banning this practice, as I've had my own brush with it, but its not at any time ok to change a law then punish retroactively. Once people started it would never stop.

That is why the constitution bans ex post facto laws.

[Des-Bal]

The methods themselves are quite brutal. It involves things like electric shock and thats only scratching the surface. I probubly can't say some others as it violates the PG-13 rule

Sounds terrible, we should ban electrocuting children. Of course I don't see why that should effect any therapy that doesn't include electrocution.

[Major-Tom]

From what I've read and heard purely anecdotally, many minors can be coerced or even forced into it by not so well-meaning parents. I think a ban on this practice is totally appropriate.

Adults can make informed decisions, minors cannot. It's wholly inappropriate to tell adults they can't do something because it may be bad for them.

I think I've also heard that there are localities and even states that ban it for anyone under the age of eighteen, and I'd hope that is something everyone can agree on.

Adults can make informed decisions, sure. But just as we have legislation against adults driving drunk or abusing amphetamines, perhaps it could be adequate to have legislation against this harmful practice as well. It doesn't give anything beneficial to society, and allows individuals with nothing but malicious intent or even delusion to indoctrinate "informed adults."

I understand the dislike of nanny statism or potential implications that a full, blanket ban like this would carry, but really, when you weigh the pros and cons, I personally think Denver made the right decision.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

From what I've read and heard purely anecdotally, many minors can be coerced or even forced into it by not so well-meaning parents. I think a ban on this practice is totally appropriate.

Adults can make informed decisions, minors cannot.

Yes they can.