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No liberal discussion thread?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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New Bremerton
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No liberal discussion thread?

Postby New Bremerton » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:54 pm

(I want to include an image of a flag representing liberal ideology at the top, but the only image I could find is too large, and the site won't let me insert it. How do I make it smaller? Do I have to save it to my PC first and edit it? How do I upload images from my PC instead of linking to images online?)

This is my first time creating a new thread, so apologies if the OP is a little amateurish and unprofessional. Hope this doesn't get locked. I don't know how many hundreds of pages a megathread can have before a sequel has to be created, or who gets to create sequels. If this thread is successful, I will rename it accordingly.

So we have a left-wing discussion megathread, a right-wing megathread, megathreads for Islam, Christianity, Jews and Judaism, feminism, libertarianism, a MAGAthread, and even a megathread concerning all things transgender, but no megathread dedicated solely to liberalism, liberal politics, liberal democracy, classical liberalism and so on and so forth.

I'm a liberal, but I'm one of the few liberals who consider themselves not to be "left-wing", and I consider liberalism and left-wing politics to be two distinct, yet partially overlapping political traditions. The OP in the LWDT focuses exclusively on socialism, communism, anarchism and other hard-left ideologies, but makes no mention of social liberalism or the sort of liberalism that most people associate with the center-left these days, I also consider libertarianism to be distinct from liberalism as well, despite the extensive overlap, and the libertarian megathread only covers classical liberalism. Hence the need for a separate liberal megathread.

This thread is about general discussion of all things liberal. It is not solely a thread where self-identified liberals like myself get to congregate to the exclusion of non-liberals. All NSGers are welcome to contribute to the discussion. If you're a liberal visiting this thread, expect your beliefs to be roundly criticized by those who don't share them. The usual NS rules apply (i.e. no flaming, trolling, flamebaiting, threadjacking etc.).

Here's a couple of questions to kick things off:

What is liberalism to you?

Are you a liberal? If so, why do you consider yourself as such, what kind of liberal are you and where on the political spectrum do you fall? Left? Right? Center?

Do you consider liberalism to be a "left-wing" ideology?

Is there such a thing as a "right-wing" liberal?

Can liberalism be radical, "extreme" and intolerant like fascism and communism? Can liberals be "far-left" or "far-right"?

Is liberalism "elitist"?

How does liberalism relate to left-wing politics and libertarianism?

What's the relationship between European and American liberalism, and how do they relate to liberal movements in other parts of the world?

How does liberalism relate to democracy and human rights more broadly, and what fate does the rise of illiberal authoritarianism around the world spell for liberalism?

Should liberalism and liberal thought be aggressively promoted around the world at the expense of other competing ideologies such as Islamism and "socialism with Chinese characteristics", or do you consider such a policy to be neocolonial and imperialistic? Would such a policy be strategically sound or unsound in the long-term?

This one is likely to be popular with NSGers from non-Western countries: Is liberalism an invention of "decadent Western imperialists", or a set of beliefs universal to all human beings?

What's your take on neoliberalism, and why is it often associated with modern Western conservatives such as Thatcher and Reagan?

This one is likely to be popular with right-wing populists: Would you say that liberalism has contributed to the rise of globalism and globalization, and if so, to what degree? Is liberalism solely responsible for globalism, or do other ideologies (e.g. neoconservatism, Third Way social democracy) get to take some credit as well?

Would you say that modern-day Western conservatism has appropriated many of the key tenets of liberalism, particularly classical liberalism i.e. individualism, free speech, democracy, capitalism, free-market economics, property rights etc.?

What's your take on "muscular liberalism", an idea espoused by former British PM David Cameron, a Conservative?

David Cameron has described himself as a "liberal conservative", to the chagrin of an American conservative audience. What does liberal conservatism even mean anyway, and for that matter, what the hell is conservative liberalism? What's the difference between the two?

What's the difference between classical liberalism and modern-day libertarianism?

What's the difference between social liberalism and social democracy? Who gets to claim credit for the creation of the welfare state in northern Europe? Socialists/social democrats or liberals?

What's the relationship between liberalism and progressivism? Would you say there's any difference at all?

Is liberalism compatible with religion in any way?


Discussion doesn't have to be limited to just answering these questions, so long as liberalism in one form or another is the topic. Also covered by this thread is a general discussion concerning the history of liberalism, the various strands and manifestations thereof, any news and current affairs directly related to liberalism in any way, and liberal solutions to problems past, present and future.

As for links, this one would be a good place to start.

That's all I can think of at the moment. I don't really have much else to go on, so any suggestions are welcome. This OP may be subject to revision at any time.
Last edited by New Bremerton on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:59 pm

One of the few liberals not to consider themselves left wing?

I'm from the Netherlands. The biggest party in the country is the liberal party (VVD). And it is a right wing party.
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:59 pm

New Bremerton wrote:
(I want to include an image of a flag representing liberal ideology at the top, but the only image I could find is too large, and the site won't let me insert it. How do I make it smaller? Do I have to save it to my PC first and edit it? How do I upload images from my PC instead of linking to images online?)

Really? Is there really any need for that green text? :eyebrow:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Iqaltut
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Postby Iqaltut » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:03 pm

You need to save it on your PC, edit it, and host it online on websites like Imgur (my personal favourite).

You should try avoiding directly linking images from online sources other than image hosting services because if the owner of the image changes it to something else you are fully responsible for your post.

If you want you can telegram me the direct link of the image you need and I send you back a link to a smaller image that you can safely use.

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Trumptonium1
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:44 pm

The blAAtschApen wrote:One of the few liberals not to consider themselves left wing?

I'm from the Netherlands. The biggest party in the country is the liberal party (VVD). And it is a right wing party.


Perspective is a funny thing - in the UK they'd be centre, in Italy centre-left and in Hungary left-wing.
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Mushet
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Postby Mushet » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:46 pm

How many cancerous ideological discussion threads do we really need? Though I am glad the OP seems to know what liberalism is, it's concerning how many people don't.

Despite the loud voices on the fringes liberalism is probably still the most mainstream ideology on NS too, so don't think it's not just because of the discussion threads. I remember a nation coming back to NS complaining about the fact that there's a Feminist Discussion Thread and NSG is full of SJWs and whatever, unaware that for a long time it's been dominated by a few posters with an axe to grind constantly bitching about feminism. It isn't what it seems. Still cancer though.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:06 pm

We have so many ideological threads, I feel like one for liberals would be redundant at this point. Threads on specific issues allow for better and more constructive debate, anyways.
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:28 pm

Major-Tom wrote:We have so many ideological threads, I feel like one for liberals would be redundant at this point. Threads on specific issues allow for better and more constructive debate, anyways.

Indeed. And we have that Left Wing thread.
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