NATION

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Mankind's Deadliest Biological Weapon

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Xmara
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1645
Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Xmara » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:21 pm

Joohan wrote:
Xmara wrote:
Or, instead of killing them, do what they’re doing with the feral cats in my neighborhood: catch, neuter/spay, release.

They actually do a favor for our neighborhood. We have a hoarder who lives on our block and the city isn’t doing anything about it. The cats go to his yard and catch rodents and other pests.


Check OP - it was brought up with the opening post. A lot of people are skeptical about it's actual effectiveness, what with studies showing dubious results, and demonstrating that 75% of any population would need to be sterilized in order for it to be effective.


Yeah but you’re still the one advocating for kitten drowning.
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Novus America
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17755
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:31 pm

Xmara wrote:
Joohan wrote:
We are not eliminating cats because they are a direct threat to humans, we are getting rid of feral cats and regulating pets so as to control the wanton environmental destruction they cause.


Or, instead of killing them, do what they’re doing with the feral cats in my neighborhood: catch, neuter/spay, release.

They actually do a favor for our neighborhood. We have a hoarder who lives on our block and the city isn’t doing anything about it. The cats go to his yard and catch rodents and other pests.


This is a good point. In many areas cats are needed to control vermin, many invasive and with no natural predators.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Joohan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 933
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Joohan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:37 pm

Xmara wrote:
Joohan wrote:
Check OP - it was brought up with the opening post. A lot of people are skeptical about it's actual effectiveness, what with studies showing dubious results, and demonstrating that 75% of any population would need to be sterilized in order for it to be effective.


Yeah but you’re still the one advocating for kitten drowning.


As opposed to what? Endangering dozens of species and ecological disaster?

I mean, are you advocating for hatchling slaughter?

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Joohan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 933
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Joohan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:38 pm

Novus America wrote:
Xmara wrote:
Or, instead of killing them, do what they’re doing with the feral cats in my neighborhood: catch, neuter/spay, release.

They actually do a favor for our neighborhood. We have a hoarder who lives on our block and the city isn’t doing anything about it. The cats go to his yard and catch rodents and other pests.


This is a good point. In many areas cats are needed to control vermin, many invasive and with no natural predators.


Cats can be and are often helpful - but at the moment, across much the world, they are the chief concern for local ecology.

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Novus America
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Posts: 17755
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:43 pm

Joohan wrote:
Xmara wrote:
Yeah but you’re still the one advocating for kitten drowning.


As opposed to what? Endangering dozens of species and ecological disaster?

I mean, are you advocating for hatchling slaughter?


There are much less cruel and more effective methods of animal control then drowning.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Novus America
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17755
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:44 pm

Joohan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
This is a good point. In many areas cats are needed to control vermin, many invasive and with no natural predators.


Cats can be and are often helpful - but at the moment, across much the world, they are the chief concern for local ecology.


Sure, in many places they can be a problem. People should not just let their cats freely roam in most cases. And large feral cat populations in sensitive areas do need to be controlled.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Joohan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 933
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Joohan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 pm

Novus America wrote:
Joohan wrote:
As opposed to what? Endangering dozens of species and ecological disaster?

I mean, are you advocating for hatchling slaughter?


There are much less cruel and more effective methods of animal control then drowning.


Sure. I am not saying that it should be the only way. But it shouldn't be banned either.

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Xmara
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1645
Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Xmara » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:49 pm

Novus America wrote:
Joohan wrote:
As opposed to what? Endangering dozens of species and ecological disaster?

I mean, are you advocating for hatchling slaughter?


There are much less cruel and more effective methods of animal control then drowning.


This.

I’m still convinced that sterilizing feral cats is the best way to control the population. As for pets, encourage cat owners to keep kitties indoors. If they must be let outdoors, there are pens that are designed so cats can enjoy the outdoors and not escape and kill small animals. Oh, and encourage them to spay/neuter their pets.
/ˈzmaːrʌ/
Info
Our Leader
Status- Code Green- All clear
I mostly use NS stats, except for population and tax rates.
A 16.8 civilization, according to this index.
Flag Waver

About Me | Great Quotes from NS | Side note: I’m female.

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Novus America
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17755
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Joohan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
There are much less cruel and more effective methods of animal control then drowning.


Sure. I am not saying that it should be the only way. But it shouldn't be banned either.


I have no problem with banning unnecessary animal cruelty when better options exist.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Joohan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 933
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Joohan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:11 pm

Novus America wrote:
Joohan wrote:
Sure. I am not saying that it should be the only way. But it shouldn't be banned either.


I have no problem with banning unnecessary animal cruelty when better options exist.


They don't exist for all people. Sometimes, it's the easiest and quickest way to deal with an unwanted brood

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Joohan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 933
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Joohan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:12 pm

Xmara wrote:
Novus America wrote:
There are much less cruel and more effective methods of animal control then drowning.


This.

I’m still convinced that sterilizing feral cats is the best way to control the population. As for pets, encourage cat owners to keep kitties indoors. If they must be let outdoors, there are pens that are designed so cats can enjoy the outdoors and not escape and kill small animals. Oh, and encourage them to spay/neuter their pets.


Regardless of how you feel - the evidence points towards more drastic measures needing to be taken.

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Novus America
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17755
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:24 pm

Joohan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
I have no problem with banning unnecessary animal cruelty when better options exist.


They don't exist for all people. Sometimes, it's the easiest and quickest way to deal with an unwanted brood


It is not a particularly easy and quick way. For most people in areas with a functioning government there are better ways.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Scomagia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14192
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 pm

Joohan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
I have no problem with banning unnecessary animal cruelty when better options exist.


They don't exist for all people. Sometimes, it's the easiest and quickest way to deal with an unwanted brood

Not to be macabre but even blunt force trauma would be preferable to drowning.
"The Universe has as many different centers as there are living beings in it. Each of us is the center of the Universe, and that Universe is shattered when they hiss at you, 'You are under arrest.'"-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"

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Western Vale Confederacy
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6244
Founded: Nov 09, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:41 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Joohan wrote:
They don't exist for all people. Sometimes, it's the easiest and quickest way to deal with an unwanted brood

Not to be macabre but even blunt force trauma would be preferable to drowning.


Eh, drowning is a pretty calm way to go.

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Novus America
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17755
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:46 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Not to be macabre but even blunt force trauma would be preferable to drowning.


Eh, drowning is a pretty calm way to go.


Not at all.
It takes a few minutes of horrible torture to drown.
If you just embrace it and do not fight it goes more quickly.
But obviously an animal is not going to do that.

It will try to survive as long as it can.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13091
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sovaal » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:58 pm

Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Sovaal wrote:Seems like an argument for loosening up controls on small caliber firearms.


...What kinda twisted motherfucker would shoot a goddamn cat!?

People do worse things to them all the time. I’d rather they shoot them. Not enough people out there willing to adopt strays.
Last edited by Sovaal on Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17505
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:38 pm

Joohan wrote:As opposed to what? Endangering dozens of species and ecological disaster?

I mean, are you advocating for hatchling slaughter?


To be frank though, birds have dozens of natural predators in areas where they evolved to live with mammalian predators. It's not like where I live where our birds evolved with no mammalian predators at all.

Xmara wrote:Or, instead of killing them, do what they’re doing with the feral cats in my neighborhood: catch, neuter/spay, release.

They actually do a favor for our neighborhood. We have a hoarder who lives on our block and the city isn’t doing anything about it. The cats go to his yard and catch rodents and other pests.


That's fine in areas where cats are somewhat necessary, but it's not a solution that could be implemented everywhere.

Sovaal wrote:...What kinda twisted motherfucker would shoot a goddamn cat!?


The wildlife sanctuary I volunteer at hired a hunter to remove most of the larger pests within the fence before we conducted poison drops. Among those he killed were feral cats. Furthermore, the cats get big enough that normal traps won't deal with them, so the only way to get rid of them is to shoot them.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

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