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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:47 am
by Olthar
Uan aa Boa wrote:... Mathematical objects, ...

An abstract concept.

... the 1707 Act of Union, ...

A piece of paper detailing an abstract concept.

... the way strawberries taste to you, ...

Qualia based on electrical signals in the brain.

... Harry Potter, ...

A book series about a fictional character.

... justice ...

Doesn't exist.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am
by The Foxes Swamp
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:21 am
by Nordengrund
I was raised believing in God and I still do. Even as a kid, I figured someone or something created us, but vague on the details. I find some atheistic arguments reasonable, but nothing that has made me want to deconvert.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am
by Cekoviu
Rojava Free State wrote:One thing i dont get is why white people are less religious than minorities. Like you would expect the people with on average harder lives to have less faith in all loving god. As a puerto rican, this always baffled me.

Like ive had 18 friends murdered, suicide or OD, and you're still tryna tell me god is looking out for us? Tell God to do something already, kids are dying and my neighborhood is like Sudan. S.O.S. :shock:

My guess is that it's comforting to the underprivileged for there to be a second life where everything is in abundance.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:02 am
by Senyosu
I'm a (kinda practicing) Buddhist, so whether or not God exists is out of the question for me, really don't care if that exists let alone believe in it.

You may, and rightfully so, try to prove the existence and thus justify belief in such an entity. But why does this matter? Even if it turns out that entity has a moral compass, why does it matter? Ultimately you are responsible for what to do with this information. Although, I do hope you do some kind of "good" unto others, God believing or God denying, since that is what matters.

your/my metaphysics and your/my theology are dust in the wind when it comes to what matters

basically idk/idc if god exists just be a good human being ffs

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:15 am
by Wunderstrafanstalt
So I see there are a lot of agnostics here, but there is this question: if "God" exists and you don't subscribe to any system of belief, is there any point/benefit in believing at all? One of the most important part of organized religion is its moral system. I agree with my religion's moral system, okay a major portion of its moral system, which is why I still abide its rules even though I'm standing in a crosspoint by now. Besides, one of the most important part of religion is providing internal salvation and meaning which I definitely get.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:20 am
by Australian rePublic
Panem and Circensis wrote:I don’t believe in God for the following reasons:

1. Let’s start off with the obvious: if there was an omniscient deity in the skies, we would have probably found such a person. Remember, all major religions were founded more than a thousand years before the Enlightenment and modern science. Heck, Christianity was founded 2,000 years ago. People learned washing your hands fought germs in the 19th century.

2. In all texts, this omniscient being demands the loyalty of humanity, so that they get a reserved spot in the clouds. If not, you get sent to a place of fire and torture. Why would any god need humanity’s unconditional fealty if they are all powerful and much more altruistic than the rest of us?

3. In all religious text, this deity is a benevolent figure. If this deity is so benevolent, then why were there so many wars, plagues, and famines. Today, there is repression, inequality both in income and in race, discrimination, murder, ignorance, disease, and bad things happening to good people. Why?

4. The very definition of death revolves around it being the end of your consciousness. Ergo, the idea of an afterlife is ludicrous, because then death doesn’t really exist.

1. But He doesn't live in the sky
2. I, as an Orthodox, do not believe that a loving God sends anyone to an eternal tourture chamber
3. Free will
4. Yep. Moat religions will argue that there is no death

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:20 am
by Australian rePublic
Rojava Free State wrote:One thing i dont get is why white people are less religious than minorities. Like you would expect the people with on average harder lives to have less faith in all loving god. As a puerto rican, this always baffled me.

Like ive had 18 friends murdered, suicide or OD, and you're still tryna tell me god is looking out for us? Tell God to do something already, kids are dying and my neighborhood is like Sudan. S.O.S. :shock:

Aside from everything else here, white privilege is absolute bullcrap

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:22 am
by Australian rePublic
Bienenhalde wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:One thing i dont get is why white people are less religious than minorities. Like you would expect the people with on average harder lives to have less faith in all loving god. As a puerto rican, this always baffled me.

Like ive had 18 friends murdered, suicide or OD, and you're still tryna tell me god is looking out for us? Tell God to do something already, kids are dying and my neighborhood is like Sudan. S.O.S. :shock:


On the contrary, it seems that many people who have difficult lives turn to religion as a source of solace, while people who are materially wealthy and have things handed to them on a silver platter are more likely to be religiously apathetic. Of course, such trends do not hold true for all individuals.

If God didn't exist, life would be easier. Now I have the fear of hell hanging over my head

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:28 am
by Godular
Australian rePublic wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
On the contrary, it seems that many people who have difficult lives turn to religion as a source of solace, while people who are materially wealthy and have things handed to them on a silver platter are more likely to be religiously apathetic. Of course, such trends do not hold true for all individuals.

If God didn't exist, life would be easier. Now I have the fear of hell hanging over my head


If God doesn't exist, neither would Hell.

Unless there's some sort of blimp floating around named The Fear of Hell, and it just sorta hovered over you.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:30 am
by Australian rePublic
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
On the contrary, it seems that many people who have difficult lives turn to religion as a source of solace, while people who are materially wealthy and have things handed to them on a silver platter are more likely to be religiously apathetic. Of course, such trends do not hold true for all individuals.

Rather than materialism, it’s more linked to education: those with more education are more likely to be wealthy, and atheist at the same time. Correlation =/= Causation. Give a poor person education for free and they’ll be as likely to become an atheist as the rich man with the same amount of education. It’s a case of C causes both A and B rather than A causing B. With the same fallacy, we could say that cigarettes cause cancer by physically existing.

The argument that religious people are uneducated is absolutely and utterly moronic. I have a basic, basic understanding of theology, and can tell you that there is absolutely no way that you can conduct advanced, or even intimediate theology, unless you're HIGHLY educated. And that's just if you conduct theology in YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE. That does NOT include those who learn Ancient Hebrew/Greek/(insert language which applies to your religion). I'll pose a theological question to you and you judge for yourself if you can answer it, USING THE BIBLE ALONE:
What does the Old Testament tell us about Jesus (and don't say nothing. The answer most certainly is NOT nothing. Also, don't tell us the requirements for the arrival of the messiah. That's a cop out)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:31 am
by Australian rePublic
Dogmeat wrote:
Olthar wrote:I also doubt God ever had acne, and I'm sure he has a full head of hair.

I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him.

I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:35 am
by Australian rePublic
The blAAtschApen wrote:
Esternial wrote:Well, if you go with someone (relatively) less outlandish like aliens, you get the same discussion.

You can never 100% confirm the absence of intelligent alien life.

The main distinction I see is that God is being credited with a much wider array of deeds - mostly because (as I see it) God is a personification of "something we cannot understand".


Soooo

God is a woman?

Actully, God is genderless. Refering to God with male pronouns is because of a bad mistranslation

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:55 am
by Australian rePublic
Godular wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:If God didn't exist, life would be easier. Now I have the fear of hell hanging over my head


If God doesn't exist, neither would Hell.


My point, exactly

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 am
by Frievolk
Australian rePublic wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him.

I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly

...
How else can you interpret that though?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:33 am
by Petrolheadia
Australian rePublic wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him.

I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly

Why not?
Australian rePublic wrote:
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Rather than materialism, it’s more linked to education: those with more education are more likely to be wealthy, and atheist at the same time. Correlation =/= Causation. Give a poor person education for free and they’ll be as likely to become an atheist as the rich man with the same amount of education. It’s a case of C causes both A and B rather than A causing B. With the same fallacy, we could say that cigarettes cause cancer by physically existing.

The argument that religious people are uneducated is absolutely and utterly moronic. I have a basic, basic understanding of theology, and can tell you that there is absolutely no way that you can conduct advanced, or even intimediate theology, unless you're HIGHLY educated. And that's just if you conduct theology in YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE. That does NOT include those who learn Ancient Hebrew/Greek/(insert language which applies to your religion). I'll pose a theological question to you and you judge for yourself if you can answer it, USING THE BIBLE ALONE:
What does the Old Testament tell us about Jesus (and don't say nothing. The answer most certainly is NOT nothing. Also, don't tell us the requirements for the arrival of the messiah. That's a cop out)

If even your holy book says your God will be despised, there's quite a chance it isn't a good one.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:39 am
by Australian rePublic
Petrolheadia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly

Why not?

I don't have enough theological training to answer that

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:42 am
by Petrolheadia
Australian rePublic wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:Why not?

I don't have enough theological training to answer that

So why do you even say it?

Besides, the idea of God just straight-out mixing metaphor with face value and covering it in ahistorical data seems fishy.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:55 am
by The blAAtschApen
Australian rePublic wrote:
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Rather than materialism, it’s more linked to education: those with more education are more likely to be wealthy, and atheist at the same time. Correlation =/= Causation. Give a poor person education for free and they’ll be as likely to become an atheist as the rich man with the same amount of education. It’s a case of C causes both A and B rather than A causing B. With the same fallacy, we could say that cigarettes cause cancer by physically existing.

The argument that religious people are uneducated is absolutely and utterly moronic. I have a basic, basic understanding of theology, and can tell you that there is absolutely no way that you can conduct advanced, or even intimediate theology, unless you're HIGHLY educated. And that's just if you conduct theology in YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE. That does NOT include those who learn Ancient Hebrew/Greek/(insert language which applies to your religion).




Good old fashioned Scientology luckily has original sacred texts in English :)

Time to convert!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:13 am
by Frievolk
Petrolheadia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I don't have enough theological training to answer that

So why do you even say it?

Besides, the idea of God just straight-out mixing metaphor with face value and covering it in ahistorical data seems fishy.

But it still does check out with the MO of Jehova all through the OT, all things considered.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:50 am
by British Tackeettlaus
I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:04 am
by Wunderstrafanstalt
British Tackeettlaus wrote:I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih.


My mother's a muslim yet she likes Christian teachings especially the things about "love", "forgiveness" etc (She was enrolled to a Christian school), as opposed to "kill the gays" ruling of Islam. The point is that religious morality and teachings doesn't instantly evaporate even if you don't believe in the god(s) of [INSERT FAITH], and isn't it's what organized religions are trying to achieve?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:31 am
by Uan aa Boa
Australian rePublic wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him.

I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly

If we found the same things in another text of the period that came from one of the many Ancient Near Eastern religions that are no longer practised we wouldn't bat an eyelid. We'd just say that evidently the Assyrians (or whatever) believed their holy men had the ability to curse their enemies. It's only problematic because a descendent of this religion still exists, so we feel that this particular ancient text must in some way be read so as to be compatible with 21st century ethics.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 am
by British Tackeettlaus
Wunderstrafanstalt wrote:
British Tackeettlaus wrote:I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih.


My mother's a muslim yet she likes Christian teachings especially the things about "love", "forgiveness" etc (She was enrolled to a Christian school), as opposed to "kill the gays" ruling of Islam. The point is that religious morality and teachings doesn't instantly evaporate even if you don't believe in the god(s) of [INSERT FAITH], and isn't it's what organized religions are trying to achieve?


Yeah. People think that if you are an atheist you must not have any morals. They say, "if there is no hell and no judgement from above, what's to stop you killing and raping?"

What terrifies me is the implication the only thing stopping them from being an evil monster is fear of punishment in the afterlife!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 am
by Gospel Power
Not going to say anything deep here, for me to believe in God is a choice.
I found the Bible to be true enough for me and accepted Jesus sacrifice for my sins, I view him as a model to follow.

I don't need to seek proofs and to live my entire life questioning if there is a God or not, to become a great scientist or priest, since no one can prove if there is a God or not, I choose to believe in God and Jesus as my saviour.
For me, there is life after death so I try to make myself ready for it (I have a lot of years to live until death).

It gives me happiness to believe that there is life after I die and stop questioning things which I cannot prove, and I love my church and christian life.

Say whatever you want and believe whatever you want, it doesn't affect me, Jesus loves you and died for your sins, he is waiting for us all after we die.