Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[Helernia]

I don't believe in a god because it has never been proved to me that a god does or does not exist. For a higher power in general, though, I believe in the Universe itself, that we're all a part of and will one day be one within it. Note that the Universe doesn't require worship like certain narcissistic deities like YHWH, God, Zeus, Diana or Tupã.

[Society of Quasiland]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”

So, no, it is not just “ not being close to God”. That is an understatement. It is the acknowledgement of humans tainted from birth.

As a person that has experienced my body vibrating as people are healed or when people scream/growl like a wild animal as strange spirits leave them. I would say that there is something that can happen when the physical body and the spiritual body are unified that can heal sickness and disease. A mind that accepts unconditional loves can make an error of said mind cease to exist. Negative spirits/emotions seem to relinquish hold on a person for that moment if not forevermore. When the phyiscal body and spiritual body unite there is eternity in life that can't be explained and can only be felt.

[Lost Memories]

It always amazes me how according to some Christians the supreme being of everything not only cares deeply about the proceedings on a speck of dust somewhere in this terrifyingly huge universe,

What you're being amazed to here, is that a supreme being can also be supremely caring, as being a supreme being isn't only about power, but also about character. The christian god is an absolute being both in power and in character.

but also gets extremely jealous and condemns all to hell unless his subjects prostrates before him every living moment in sincere self-denigration, no matter what good they may do in their daily lives.

This is a misconception about christianity, so it's nothing to be amazed at, aside the ignorance bringing forth this idea.

Christians aren't ordered to denigrate themselves, but to be realistic and sincere in recognizing their faults and limits, and to work hard to still live with dignity, as the christian god is full of dignity.
People living without dignity, or respect for others or themselves, are just going to reap what they sowed. The christian god wishes for the best of everyone, but has also given everyone the freedom to decide indipendently, because a dignified life has much more value when it's attained with effort and consciousness.

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

Ah the only good definition of spiritually dead is the Christian one, I see.

If you want to understand what others are saying, you can't go changing the meaning of their words.
This has nothing to do with religion, but with communication.

Religion is the biggest brainwashing tool the worlds ever created

Ignorance is the biggest ill of humanity.

[Celritannia]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”

So, no, it is not just “ not being close to God”. That is an understatement. It is the acknowledgement of humans tainted from birth.

So, lets go back to this time period.
Are you saying that even other cultures, far away from the Middle East, with no knowledge of the apostles, Christianity, etc, are still sinful, even if they are naturally good people?

[Celritannia]

Ignorance is the biggest ill of humanity.

Ironic:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ignorance/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... olishness/

[Farnhamia]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”

So, no, it is not just “ not being close to God”. That is an understatement. It is the acknowledgement of humans tainted from birth.

So, lets go back to this time period.
Are you saying that even other cultures, far away from the Middle East, with no knowledge of the apostles, Christianity, etc, are still sinful, even if they are naturally good people?

Didn't you read that post? There are no naturally good people. All people are naturally sinful. Do try to keep up, old chap.

[Celritannia]

Christians aren't ordered to denigrate themselves, but to be realistic and sincere in recognizing their faults and limits, and to work hard to still live with dignity, as the christian god is full of dignity.
People living without dignity, or respect for others or themselves, are just going to reap what they sowed. The christian god wishes for the best of everyone, but has also given everyone the freedom to decide indipendently, because a dignified life has much more value when it's attained with effort and consciousness.

Women are highly denigrated in the bible. As are homosexuals.
And which rules are humans supposed to follow? Does the New Testament make the Old Testament null and void? What about the parts that contradict each other?

[Celritannia]

So, lets go back to this time period.
Are you saying that even other cultures, far away from the Middle East, with no knowledge of the apostles, Christianity, etc, are still sinful, even if they are naturally good people?

Didn't you read that post? There are no naturally good people. All people are naturally sinful. Do try to keep up, old chap.

I was asking as I am pointing out the contradiction. I was waiting to use Confucianism, but you spoilt the surprise

[Myrensis]

Christians aren't ordered to denigrate themselves, but to be realistic and sincere in recognizing their faults and limits, and to work hard to still live with dignity, as the christian god is full of dignity.
People living without dignity, or respect for others or themselves, are just going to reap what they sowed. The christian god wishes for the best of everyone, but has also given everyone the freedom to decide indipendently, because a dignified life has much more value when it's attained with effort and consciousness.

Women are highly denigrated in the bible. As are homosexuals.
And which rules are humans supposed to follow? Does the New Testament make the Old Testament null and void? What about the parts that contradict each other?

Whichever parts are most convenient for the individual Christian/group, obviously.

Leviticus is still their go to for 'homosexuality is a sin!', but all the other silly shit in Leviticus that would make modern life a massive pain in the ass? Doesn't apply anymore! Because...reasons!

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The story of creation in Genesis is indeed far from how the universe and this planet and life on it actually came about.

Bravo, you know the definition of a metaphor and it's indeed not supposed to be read literally!

I'm not taking it literally, I know it's not literally true, I'm asking why God told a story so far from the truth.

Ah, my bad you do not actually. : /

I don't really see what the genisis creation account is a metaphor for. All it seemed to get right, even metaphorically, is that there is indeed a universe.

[Lost Memories]

Christians aren't ordered to denigrate themselves, but to be realistic and sincere in recognizing their faults and limits, and to work hard to still live with dignity, as the christian god is full of dignity.
People living without dignity, or respect for others or themselves, are just going to reap what they sowed. The christian god wishes for the best of everyone, but has also given everyone the freedom to decide indipendently, because a dignified life has much more value when it's attained with effort and consciousness.

Women are highly denigrated in the bible. As are homosexuals.

Do tell, which parts are you talking about?
Secondly, are you aware the bible alone is just a book, written by humans? It's the interpretation of it which gives it value, not the book itself, and not all interpretations are equal, as the most suited person to tell you what was its message, is who wrote it.

And which rules are humans supposed to follow? Does the New Testament make the Old Testament null and void? What about the parts that contradict each other?

You're aware there is a whole catechism devised specifically to answer these basic questions? If you don't, you could try to look that up, as those are really basic questions which usually are taught to grade school kids. Those aren't really deep questions, nor new questions.

The super short answer is: Jesus didn't bring new laws, but the key to interpret the laws, and that key is "love yourself and others as you love god". All laws weren't given to be followed blindly, one example is the prohibition on sabbath, but laws exist to help people live together peacefully and with diligence.

Ignorance is the biggest ill of humanity.

Ironic:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ignorance/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... olishness/

Not really, atheists are extremely ignorant of religion, though they still feel the strong need to criticize what they don't understand, leading to them just flaunting their ignorance. It's very little ironic, and actually really sad.

[New Legland]

Ironic:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ignorance/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... olishness/

Not really, atheists are extremely ignorant of religion, though they still feel the strong need to criticize what they don't understand, leading to them just flaunting their ignorance. It's very little ironic, and actually really sad.

You were saying?

[The New California Republic]

atheists are extremely ignorant of religion

What a crock of shit.

though they still feel the strong need to criticize what they don't understand

or maybe their criticism comes from understanding it?

leading to them just flaunting their ignorance.

"Atheists think differently than me, they must be ignorant!"

It's very little ironic

The fuck does this even mean? It makes no sense.

and actually really sad.

You know what is actually sad? Assuming that atheists know fuck all about religion.

[Greater Westralia]

I mean, there is an argument for atheists being somewhat ignorant since the Old Law gets brought up again and again, even though the Council of Jerusalem made clear that Gentiles don't need to follow the civil laws of Israel, which include circumcision, prohibition against non-kosher food, etc. This message, taught partly by Christ himself is repeated multiple times throughout the Bible, and yet atheists continue to bring up a talking point straight out of the West Wing.

[Godular]

Atheists are extremely ignorant of religion.

Well, I HAD an irony detector. That bit right there done sent that sucker straight into high orbit.

[Godular]

I mean, there is an argument for atheists being somewhat ignorant since the Old Law gets brought up again and again, even though the Council of Jerusalem made clear that Gentiles don't need to follow the civil laws of Israel, which include circumcision, prohibition against non-kosher food, etc. This message, taught partly by Christ himself is repeated multiple times throughout the Bible, and yet atheists continue to bring up a talking point straight out of the West Wing.

See, I don't think that particular bit has been mentioned in this thread at all... which kinda undermines your position.

[Greater Westralia]

See, I don't think that particular bit has been mentioned in this thread at all... which kinda undermines your position.

Elaborate.

Do you mean that atheist claims of Christian hypocrisy hasn't mentioned in this thread (except it literally has been mentioned in this fucking page) or that no Christian has mentioned the Council of Jerusalem, in which case fair enough. Although I'm sure someone already has.

[The New California Republic]

I mean, there is an argument for atheists being somewhat ignorant since the Old Law gets brought up again and again, even though the Council of Jerusalem made clear that Gentiles don't need to follow the civil laws of Israel, which include circumcision, prohibition against non-kosher food, etc. This message, taught partly by Christ himself is repeated multiple times throughout the Bible, and yet atheists continue to bring up a talking point straight out of the West Wing.

It's some Christians that keep dredging it up by mentioning Leviticus 18:22 etc. Atheists would be perfectly happy to let sleeping dogs lie, if it wasn't for that little part that some Christians use as a stick to beat the gays with.

[Greater Westralia]

It's some Christians that keep dredging it up by mentioning Leviticus 18:22 etc. Atheists would be perfectly happy to let sleeping dogs lie, if it wasn't for that little part that some Christians use as a stick to beat the gays with.

Paul has some choice words on homosexuals in the New Testament.

And homosexual sex is wrong regardless, since it is fornication.

[The New California Republic]

It's some Christians that keep dredging it up by mentioning Leviticus 18:22 etc. Atheists would be perfectly happy to let sleeping dogs lie, if it wasn't for that little part that some Christians use as a stick to beat the gays with.

Paul has some choice words on homosexuals in the New Testament.

Sure, but it is Leviticus 18:22 that is the oft-repeated reference, and hence the only reason Atheists have any real need to discuss anything related to the Old Law at all, i.e. because they are forced to.

And homosexual sex is wrong regardless, since it is fornication.

Sex between a married gay couple isn't fornication.

[Hanafuridake]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Furthermore, from the ontogenetic perspective, altruistic behavior emerges very early in development during infancy, before socialization can culturally shape this behavior. For example, already at the young age of 14 months, infants help others in need. Based on these comparative and developmental data, it has been suggested that it is in our nature to be altruists.

- Children’s altruistic behavior in context: The role of emotional responsiveness and culture

See what I did there? I quoted an article and included a citation to the original. You copied GotQuestions ad verbatim without acknowledgement at all. I'm not going to refute a post which is a blatant gish gallop and plagiarism of an entire web page when I actually spend time making my own posts.

[The New California Republic]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Furthermore, from the ontogenetic perspective, altruistic behavior emerges very early in development during infancy, before socialization can culturally shape this behavior. For example, already at the young age of 14 months, infants help others in need. Based on these comparative and developmental data, it has been suggested that it is in our nature to be altruists.

- Children’s altruistic behavior in context: The role of emotional responsiveness and culture

See what I did there? I quoted an article and included a citation to the original. You copied GotQuestions ad verbatim without acknowledgement at all. I'm not going to refute a post which is a blatant gish gallop and plagiarism of an entire web page when I actually spend time making my own posts.

Korhal IVV is constantly doing that. I have pointed it out to him, but he keeps insisting on copying and pasting the work of others without correctly referencing it. At this point it just looks like an intentional attempt to pass off the work of others as his own. And that is pretty fucking bad.

[Greater Westralia]

Sex between a married gay couple isn't fornication.

Technically true, although I don't recognise same-sex marriage since its not mentioned in the Bible or by the early Church fathers as a legitimate Godly marriage.

[The New California Republic]

Sex between a married gay couple isn't fornication.

Technically true, although I don't recognise same-sex marriage since its not mentioned in the Bible or by the early Church fathers as a legitimate Godly marriage.

Cool, but it still isn't fornication by definition, it doesn't really depend on your own recognition of it.

[Godular]

See, I don't think that particular bit has been mentioned in this thread at all... which kinda undermines your position.

Elaborate.

Do you mean that atheist claims of Christian hypocrisy hasn't mentioned in this thread (except it literally has been mentioned in this fucking page) or that no Christian has mentioned the Council of Jerusalem, in which case fair enough. Although I'm sure someone already has.

Oh, comments about Christian hypocrisy are all the hell over the place in this thread and others, and it's mostly as NCR says in that the atheists are generally pointing out inconsistencies in points brought up by the religious folks (amusingly enough not exclusively Christian).

The Council of Jerusalem though... decidedly less so, for the reason stated above. Most of the atheist position through this thread has been geared towards explaining why God's a screaming douchenozzle and not particularly worthy of worship, and less on the logical consistency of the text itself.