Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[Hanafuridake]

The fuck does this mean? It's a bit of a truism, is it not? The dead can't look at anything, so it is kinda implied that they can't look at objects like crosses either. I really don't see what you are getting at by raising this point; if it is indeed a "point" at all...

Humans are naturally spiritually dead. It takes divine intervention for them to be able to have live and have faith ar all. So as predestination says.

How do you explain non-Christians who are not “spiritually dead?” all of the major world religions have ecstatic and faith-based traditions, the implication that we're somehow hollow is weird.

[Thuzbekistan]

Humans are naturally spiritually dead. It takes divine intervention for them to be able to have live and have faith ar all. So as predestination says.

How do you explain non-Christians who are not “spiritually dead?” all of the major world religions have ecstatic and faith-based traditions, the implication that we're somehow hollow is weird.

According to the Bible, they are dead unless they are close to god

[Hanafuridake]

How do you explain non-Christians who are not “spiritually dead?” all of the major world religions have ecstatic and faith-based traditions, the implication that we're somehow hollow is weird.

According to the Bible, they are dead unless they are close to god

Then the Bible is wrong because we're not and knowing just about any non-believer should be able to tell you that.

[Korhal IVV]

According to the Bible, they are dead unless they are close to god

Then the Bible is wrong because we're not and knowing just about any non-believer should be able to tell you that.

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Then the Bible is wrong because we're not and knowing just about any non-believer should be able to tell you that.

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

If I were so inclined I would call this Western Devil-ism and Cultural Imperialism, considering what Hana professes belief in.

[The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket]

Timespace creating itself is too ludicrous for me to accept.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Timespace creating itself is too ludicrous for me to accept.

There’s a lot of stuff that sounds pretty nutty, but if the evidence points in that direction then not ‘accepting’ it becomes more and more of an exercise in wishful thinking.

[The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket]

Timespace creating itself is too ludicrous for me to accept.

There’s a lot of stuff that sounds pretty nutty, but if the evidence points in that direction then not ‘accepting’ it becomes more and more of an exercise in wishful thinking.

There is zero evidrnce for that

[Kowani]

Timespace creating itself is too ludicrous for me to accept.

And yet somehow, God can do that no problem.

[The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket]

Timespace creating itself is too ludicrous for me to accept.

And yet somehow, God can do that no problem.

Yes, although God creating Himself would be ludicrous too

[Kowani]

And yet somehow, God can do that no problem.

Yes, although God creating Himself would be ludicrous too

So, where did he come from?

[Neanderthaland]

There’s a lot of stuff that sounds pretty nutty, but if the evidence points in that direction then not ‘accepting’ it becomes more and more of an exercise in wishful thinking.

There is zero evidrnce for that

For what part? We live in a world in which particles can apparently also be waves, or both, or neither, all at the same time. That sounds pretty nutty to me, but there's tons of evidence which suggests that it is true.

Given that these rather unconventional physics are the sort of thing we can probably expect for the origin of the universe, I think it's fair to say that whatever the answer turns out to be, it's going to sound "ludicrous."



However, the only people who behave ludicrously, are the ones who say, "I already know what the origin of the universe is, and it's this..." And doubly so if their reasoning is just that they can't imagine anything else.

[Godular]

There’s a lot of stuff that sounds pretty nutty, but if the evidence points in that direction then not ‘accepting’ it becomes more and more of an exercise in wishful thinking.

There is zero evidrnce for that

Incorrect, depending on which aspect you are referring to.

[Hanafuridake]

Then the Bible is wrong because we're not and knowing just about any non-believer should be able to tell you that.

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

I don't need to because I'm already familiar with the terms, they don't reflect the real world at all.

[Kowani]

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

I don't need to because I'm already familiar with the terms, they don't reflect the real world at all.

[Korhal IVV]

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

I don't need to because I'm already familiar with the terms, they don't reflect the real world at all.

Are you?

No one is gonna explain why people don’t have to be told to lie in order to lie on their own, then.

[Farnhamia]

I don't need to because I'm already familiar with the terms, they don't reflect the real world at all.

Are you?

No one is gonna explain why people don’t have to be told to lie in order to lie on their own, then.

Here's a thought, why don't you explain those terms and save everyone a lot of time? That way we won't have to do endless rounds of "I know what they mean." "Do you?" "Yes." "Are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure." That sort of thing gets kind of old, doesn't it?

[Korhal IVV]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”

So, no, it is not just “ not being close to God”. That is an understatement. It is the acknowledgement of humans tainted from birth.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It always amazes me how according to some Christians the supreme being of everything not only cares deeply about the proceedings on a speck of dust somewhere in this terrifyingly huge universe, but also gets extremely jealous and condemns all to hell unless his subjects prostrates before him every living moment in sincere self-denigration, no matter what good they may do in their daily lives.

[Thuzbekistan]

Then the Bible is wrong because we're not and knowing just about any non-believer should be able to tell you that.

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

Ah the only good definition of spiritually dead is the Christian one, I see. Most missionaries that go overseas and up softening their views. I wonder if you did the same in a foreign population, that it might soften yours.

[Big Jim P]

Then the Bible is wrong because we're not and knowing just about any non-believer should be able to tell you that.

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

Your book of myths is not the end-all or be-all of the universe. Not even of the spiritual universe.

[The New California Republic]

Wot

Take a Bible handbook and look into the definition of "spiritually dead" or "total depravity".

Your book of myths is not the end-all or be-all of the universe. Not even of the spiritual universe.

But Jim, anyone who doesn't believe in the Judaeo-Christian god must be spiritually dead, regardless of the fact that other forms of spirituality exist, and regardless of what is implied by the fact that this thread aims to discuss any and all deities, not just the Judaeo-Christian one.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”

So, no, it is not just “ not being close to God”. That is an understatement. It is the acknowledgement of humans tainted from birth.

The idea of total depravity is misanthropic, not to mention mean spirited.

[Ferengi empire]

Religion is the biggest brainwashing tool the worlds ever created

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Religion is the biggest brainwashing tool the worlds ever created

Hey now, don’t blame the poor planet. We already treat it like crap.