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Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

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Free Arabian Nation
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Posts: 956
Founded: May 02, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:25 am

Holy Tedalonia wrote:I find the universe or the world far to much in our favor. And with that fortune in mind, makes me believe in god. Sure we may be lucky, but you can only be lucky so many times.

Lol no, if anything this universe hates us.

I mean, if this universe was truly biased towards humans, our Earth would grow pizza and beer on trees and hookers would be everywhere.

Jokes aside, this universe is most definitely NOT in our favor. Especially considering the fact that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of our universe will kill us without things like Clothing, Spacesuits, Spaceships, Weapons, Air Conditioning, Food, Medicine. Hell, Humanity would have gone extinct/wouldn't be the top species if it wasn't for the magical invention of "Controlled Fire"

It's less of a finely tuned haven for Humans and more of a flower in a sidewalk crack.
الأمة العربية الحرة

We are not Ba'athist, a Caliphate, or an Islamic Theocracy, we just so happen to be Arab/Muslim Majority.
I don't use NS Stats, but they do give a somewhat OK idea of what my nation is like
If I fuck up on anything, please correct me.
Yes, I did fit Forum 7 into my canon. (It's near the bottom)
Baghdad Times: Operation Ishaq ends in success, Egypt is Liberated but at a heavy casualty cost. Migration caravans spread all over Egypt as the overpopulated Cario is depopulated by the Government. Expect food/material shortages as goods are diverted to help rebuild Egypt.

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Alvecia
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Posts: 17484
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
Holy Tedalonia wrote:I find the universe or the world far to much in our favor. And with that fortune in mind, makes me believe in god. Sure we may be lucky, but you can only be lucky so many times.

Lol no, if anything this universe hates us.

I mean, if this universe was truly biased towards humans, our Earth would grow pizza and beer on trees and hookers would be everywhere.

Jokes aside, this universe is most definitely NOT in our favor. Especially considering the fact that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of our universe will kill us without things like Clothing, Spacesuits, Spaceships, Weapons, Air Conditioning, Food, Medicine. Hell, Humanity would have gone extinct/wouldn't be the top species if it wasn't for the magical invention of "Controlled Fire"

It's less of a finely tuned haven for Humans and more of a flower in a sidewalk crack.

Life's a bitch and then you die
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Albydia
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Posts: 53
Founded: Dec 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Albydia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 am

There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.
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Australian rePublic
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Posts: 15477
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:28 am

Greater Germany wrote:
Reikoku wrote:Nature or the universe seems to me to be the only thing which can justifiably be called God, since everything originates inside of it, and everything forms a co-dependent relationship with other natural objects.

This kinda fits for me.

I don't really believe in the classic Abrahamic "guy with a beard and robe that looks like a human and makes petty-seeming decisions" sort of god. But the universe, and the unknown within it, that we try to learn more about and draw our origins from, feel like a god of the natural which gives us inspiration and motivation.
Something something the first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you, etc.

I'm not sure if any Abrahamic believer actually believes that. Correct me if I'm wrong (and there's a good chance that I am), but I think that depictions of God as a human being are meant to be relatable, rather than accurate
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Free Arabian Nation
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Posts: 956
Founded: May 02, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:29 am

Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.

Alright then

Who created the god?

If God has always existed, then something can come out of nothing, meaning belief in a lucky creation is not unjustified

If God was created by something much more powerful than him, then who created that god? It will just be a infinite loop of "God 1 created man, God 2 created god 1, god 2 has always existed coming from nothing", etc
Last edited by Free Arabian Nation on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
الأمة العربية الحرة

We are not Ba'athist, a Caliphate, or an Islamic Theocracy, we just so happen to be Arab/Muslim Majority.
I don't use NS Stats, but they do give a somewhat OK idea of what my nation is like
If I fuck up on anything, please correct me.
Yes, I did fit Forum 7 into my canon. (It's near the bottom)
Baghdad Times: Operation Ishaq ends in success, Egypt is Liberated but at a heavy casualty cost. Migration caravans spread all over Egypt as the overpopulated Cario is depopulated by the Government. Expect food/material shortages as goods are diverted to help rebuild Egypt.

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Alvecia
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Posts: 17484
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 am

Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.

I mean, no, not really. Unless you worship Lady Luck or something like that.
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That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
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Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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The Grims
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Founded: Antiquity
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby The Grims » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 am

Holy Tedalonia wrote:I find the universe or the world far to much in our favor. And with that fortune in mind, makes me believe in god. Sure we may be lucky, but you can only be lucky so many times.


You mean how a puddle notices how perfectly he fits the hole ?

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Albydia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 53
Founded: Dec 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Albydia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.

Alright then

Who created the god?

He's always been there. That's why we say that God is eternal.
February 10, 1998: The Ethiopian naval base in Goldstone has begun construction. This is a milestone in the continuation of peaceful relations between us and the Kingdom of Ethiopia.

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Valentine Z
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Posts: 4178
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:32 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.

Alright then

Who created the god?


That's also something I can't wrap my head around. There has to be a beginning to all of this, even from a scientific viewpoint. Even for Buddhism, it's lacking because... where's the start?

What's there before the Big Bang, and all of that. I really want to believe that there's something that created this universe.
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Free Arabian Nation
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Posts: 956
Founded: May 02, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:32 am

Albydia wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Alright then

Who created the god?

He's always been there. That's why we say that God is eternal.

So, he came from nothing because he's always been there.

Nothing intelligently created him, as he always existed, meaning that something as intelligent as a man being created by something not intelligent is not an invalid thought.
Last edited by Free Arabian Nation on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
الأمة العربية الحرة

We are not Ba'athist, a Caliphate, or an Islamic Theocracy, we just so happen to be Arab/Muslim Majority.
I don't use NS Stats, but they do give a somewhat OK idea of what my nation is like
If I fuck up on anything, please correct me.
Yes, I did fit Forum 7 into my canon. (It's near the bottom)
Baghdad Times: Operation Ishaq ends in success, Egypt is Liberated but at a heavy casualty cost. Migration caravans spread all over Egypt as the overpopulated Cario is depopulated by the Government. Expect food/material shortages as goods are diverted to help rebuild Egypt.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
Minister
 
Posts: 2066
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:35 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.

Alright then

Who created the god?


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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:36 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.

Alright then

Who created the god?

No one. That's a logical fallacy. In order for creation to exist, time has to exist. There has to be a time before you existed (and, unless you're immortal) there has to be a time after you exist. God exists outside of time. To God, before, now and after all exist simultaneously. In order for God to have been created, there has to be a before He existed. Since before, now and after are simultaneous to God, there is no before, therefore, there is no "time" when God didn't exist. God has always existed. God always was, God always is, and God always will be. God is eternal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that that's the meaning of "I am who I am"
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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Sapientia Et Bellum
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Founded: Dec 10, 2017
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 am

I can easily replace god with what came before the big bang and what came before the answer to that and science cant answer it just as religion cant answer what created god as we know it... its beyond our capability of knowing.... nothing is truly falsifiable
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Albydia
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Posts: 53
Founded: Dec 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Albydia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:37 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Alright then

Who created the god?

No one. That's a logical fallacy. In order for creation to exist, time has to exist. There has to be a time before you existed (and, unless you're immortal) there has to be a time after you exist. God exists outside of time. To God, before, now and after all exist simultaneously. In order for God to have been created, there has to be a before He existed. Since before, now and after are simultaneous to God, there is no before, therefore, there is no "time" when God didn't exist. God has always existed. God always was, God always is, and God always will be. God is eternal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that that's the meaning of "I am who I am"

:clap: Thank you Orthobro, very cool. That's basically what I was trying to say, and you said it much better than I could.
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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:38 am

Valentine Z wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Alright then

Who created the god?


That's also something I can't wrap my head around. There has to be a beginning to all of this, even from a scientific viewpoint. Even for Buddhism, it's lacking because... where's the start?

What's there before the Big Bang, and all of that. I really want to believe that there's something that created this universe.

You mention the Big Bang. What's created the singularity which existed before the big bang?
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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:40 am

Albydia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:No one. That's a logical fallacy. In order for creation to exist, time has to exist. There has to be a time before you existed (and, unless you're immortal) there has to be a time after you exist. God exists outside of time. To God, before, now and after all exist simultaneously. In order for God to have been created, there has to be a before He existed. Since before, now and after are simultaneous to God, there is no before, therefore, there is no "time" when God didn't exist. God has always existed. God always was, God always is, and God always will be. God is eternal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that that's the meaning of "I am who I am"

:clap: Thank you Orthobro, very cool. That's basically what I was trying to say, and you said it much better than I could.

:hug:
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
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Why stylised as "rePublic"
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Albydia
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Founded: Dec 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Albydia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:41 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:
That's also something I can't wrap my head around. There has to be a beginning to all of this, even from a scientific viewpoint. Even for Buddhism, it's lacking because... where's the start?

What's there before the Big Bang, and all of that. I really want to believe that there's something that created this universe.

You mention the Big Bang. What's created the singularity which existed before the big bang?

Most atheistic creation stories point to something that's always existed. It's almost as if it's a fact that something in this universe has always existed and will always exist. What sounds more reasonable, that that something is a clump of matter or that that something is the Almighty Creator, the Great I AM.
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Valentine Z
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Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:41 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:
That's also something I can't wrap my head around. There has to be a beginning to all of this, even from a scientific viewpoint. Even for Buddhism, it's lacking because... where's the start?

What's there before the Big Bang, and all of that. I really want to believe that there's something that created this universe.

You mention the Big Bang. What's created the singularity which existed before the big bang?


Yep! And what existed before then, and stuff.
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Toaslandia
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Postby Toaslandia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:43 am

I'm a Catholic, and even though I don't go to church that often I firmly believe that God exists. But I also believe other religions gods exist (so I guess I'm a heretic :) ) . I believe that God exists mainly because I don't think a bunch of people would just go "You know what would be funny? If we made up some random guy and said he was the Son of God."
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Olthar
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Postby Olthar » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:44 am

In the entire course of human history, but especially now when everyone has a camera in their pocket, there has never been any credible evidence of a God. Furthermore, the very notion of a God is simply illogical and irrational. We know enough about science and the universe that we can safely say that God either violates natural law (and is, therefore, impossible) or God does nothing relevant that affects us (and is, therefore, not worth worshipping). I prefer the first option as a do-nothing God who simply watches us for their own amusement is a terrible thought.
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:45 am

Albydia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:You mention the Big Bang. What's created the singularity which existed before the big bang?

Most atheistic creation stories...

Atheists don't have "creation" stories, as that implies a creator.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:45 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:
That's also something I can't wrap my head around. There has to be a beginning to all of this, even from a scientific viewpoint. Even for Buddhism, it's lacking because... where's the start?

What's there before the Big Bang, and all of that. I really want to believe that there's something that created this universe.

You mention the Big Bang. What's created the singularity which existed before the big bang?


Time didn't exist before the singularity.

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 12762
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:47 am

Olthar wrote:In the entire course of human history, but especially now when everyone has a camera in their pocket, there has never been any credible evidence of a God. Furthermore, the very notion of a God is simply illogical and irrational. We know enough about science and the universe that we can safely say that God either violates natural law (and is, therefore, impossible) or God does nothing relevant that affects us (and is, therefore, not worth worshipping). I prefer the first option as a do-nothing God who simply watches us for their own amusement is a terrible thought.

The silence of God is deafening isn't it? He was awfully chatty thousands of years ago, but now seems to have gone very quiet for an extended period... :roll:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Randsidia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Dec 31, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Randsidia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:48 am

Albydia wrote:There has to be a God because I refuse to believe that I am here out of sheer dumb luck. It takes more faith to say that you are product of dumb luck that was created by nothing out of nothing, like everything around you, than it does to admit that there is a God who has always been there and deliberately designed you and everything around you.


Nobody atheist (at least not me) is arguing that we were created out of nothing.

Indeed, we weren't created at all. We evolved from more primitive species over the span of millions of years.

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Abarri
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 118
Founded: Aug 10, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Abarri » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:49 am

I believe in God because I think there must be some being that is much more intelligent than humans (even more intelligent than any extraterrestrials who might exist somewhere in the vast universe). Said being should be able to explain everything in this universe/dimension/whatever, since no human can do that. It's sad to think if humans were to be the most intelligent or complex beings ever.

I used to be atheist (I was in 7th grade), but I "shifted back" to Christianity, even if I do not belong to any church or denomination. Currently my (non)religious side borders towards atheism, deism, Protestantism, and agnosticism; deism seems to dominate. If believing in God is illogical, then I'm happy to accept such belief as part of the irrational side of my personality.
Last edited by Abarri on Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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