Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[Australian rePublic]

I'll admit, arguing with a Hindu, sun-worshiper, neo-pagan, or wiccan on the nature of religion would be a nice change of pace.

Well I've made religious arguments in this thread about the nature of why I believe in my religion, no one chose to respond to them though.

Sorry about that buddy. I'm well versed on Bhuddism. Care to elaborate further?

[Australian rePublic]

Christianity would respond that God created the universe and all within it so that he could have something to love.

Boy, your god sure fucking likes vacuum, doesn't he?

Yea, and? Are you trying to argue that God doesn't exist simply because He has a fondness for emptiness?

[Australian rePublic]

...Cause my belief is to not belief/live around it until it is proven that it exists.

Its more likely dragons in some form existed than an all powerful space dude with a fetish of one planet and one species.

...I like to keep this civil, so please dont damn me or something. I have morals, I think the devil doesn't exist too. Im not against Christianity specifically, and no, my father did not have an influence on my ideas.

I am merely a dictionary atheist: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

On the assumption that there's only life on Earth. In either case, fondness of empty space=/=non-existance

[Des-Bal]

Yea, and? Are you trying to argue that God doesn't exist simply because He has a fondness for emptiness?

Yes. If you're arguing the universe was intelligently designed by a being who was principally concerned with earth and one species on it the fact that EVERYTHING ELSE exists is fucking ridiculous.

[Australian rePublic]

Because there must have been something to set off the concentrated singularity, as otherwise presumably it would have remained as it was for eternity, as it would have nothing acting on it to cause it to change.

Why? Why, for example, could such a hot singularity not just spontaneously throw out a universe? We know that things happen spontaneously for no external reason all the damned time, so why not that one?

Why did it happen? If it was just sitting there for all eternity unchanging, why did it decide to change of a sudden

[Thuzbekistan]

Why? Why, for example, could such a hot singularity not just spontaneously throw out a universe? We know that things happen spontaneously for no external reason all the damned time, so why not that one?

Why did it happen? If it was just sitting there for all eternity unchanging, why did it decide to change of a sudden

Dont know. Scientists are still researching. Would you like us to claim or guess without evidence?

[Australian rePublic]

Except God specifically prevented Abraham from killing his son

If Abraham claimed that story today, he’d be put in an asylum.

Yes, and if God wanted to test Abraham's loyalty today, He would have given a different test.

[Dogmeat]

Why did it happen? If it was just sitting there for all eternity unchanging, why did it decide to change of a sudden

Dont know. Scientists are still researching. Would you like us to claim or guess without evidence?

Didn't you know? Everything we don't know is proof of his god.

"We don't know, therefore we know" sayth the Apologist.

[Des-Bal]

Yes, and if God wanted to test Abraham's loyalty today, He would have given a different test.

Because people have less faith? I mean if God exists and says kill your kid should you do it?

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

I wonder how many Christians believe but cannot explain or justify their belief? I used to be a virulent atheist until I wasn't anymore. I can't explain the change, I can't point to one event that set me to faith, but there it is.

Anyone else have a similar experience (or lack of it)?

[Australian rePublic]

Also incorrect, we came up with mathematics to describe our own understanding of the universe, but that does not mean that mathematics itself is an independent entity. If anything, it suffers from similar shortcomings to science, in that it is limited by our perceptions on the matter. You cannot say that a triangle is a triangle always, or 2 + 2 = 4 always, because this is not in point of fact always so.

No, actually. A triangle is always a triangle, and 2 + 2 is always 4. No exceptions, ever. The first is a tautology, the latter a trivial consequence of the definitions of "2", "4", "+", and "=".

Mathematics does exist outside of humanity.

[Australian rePublic]

If people are dickhead's, that's not God's fault.

Yes it literally is, just like if I buy a car and it breaks down within an hour than it's the designer's fault (as well as my own for getting a Chevy ayooooo)

Or the manufacturer's fault. Or the mechanic's fault. Or any number of persons, really

[Dogmeat]

I wonder how many Christians believe but cannot explain or justify their belief? I used to be a virulent atheist until I wasn't anymore. I can't explain the change, I can't point to one event that set me to faith, but there it is.

Anyone else have a similar experience (or lack of it)?

Can't say I was ever "virulent," but my deconversion was brought about by my (at the time) fairly-serious girlfriend asking if I believed in God. I started to answer "yes" before realizing that I couldn't lie to her. Which is when I realized I didn't believe.

So yes, I can understand that.

[Australian rePublic]

Also, no, Job's suffering was Satan

Only if you've never read the Bible. God totally made a bet with Satan to do every bad thing he could think of to Job. You can't argue that's not on God.

Calling a "bet" is a very poor understanding of the situation of Job

[Australian rePublic]

The whole notion of God judging us is ludicrous. If God is an omnipotent, omniscient being, then we are to God what bacteria are to us. Do you have any interest in which bacteria are good and which bacteria are sinful? We are infinitely closer to bacteria than we are to an all-powerful God. Compared to such a being, we are hardly even sentient.

If there's a God, the last thing he cares about is human affairs. That humans think a god would have human emotions like love and jealousy points to god being made by man.

I was racking my brain trying to think of why God created us. Obly reason I could think of was... well... to be totally honest.... boredom...

[Dogmeat]

Only if you've never read the Bible. God totally made a bet with Satan to do every bad thing he could think of to Job. You can't argue that's not on God.

Calling a "bet" is a very poor understanding of the situation of Job

I don't trust your understanding of the Bible to any degree whatsoever. So far you have demonstrated nothing which leads me to believe you are more qualified to interpret the Bible then I am, and several thing which lead me to believe you are not.

And yeah, a "bet" is functionally what that was. Go back and read it if you don't believe me.

[Reverend Norv]

I wonder how many Christians believe but cannot explain or justify their belief? I used to be a virulent atheist until I wasn't anymore. I can't explain the change, I can't point to one event that set me to faith, but there it is.

Anyone else have a similar experience (or lack of it)?

I think that's how it happens for a lot of folks, myself included - though I was never an atheist per se, I didn't always have a living or defining faith. To this day, I certainly can't explain or justify my belief. I also don't feel any need to do so. I couldn't tell you why I fell in love, either, or why a very beautiful day will sometimes make me cry. The explanation's not the point.

[Des-Bal]

Can't say I was ever "virulent," but my deconversion was brought about by my (at the time) fairly-serious girlfriend asking if I believed in God. I started to answer "yes" before realizing that I couldn't lie to her. Which is when I realized I didn't believe.

So yes, I can understand that.

I realized I that regardless of what I said I didn't actually think of religion as more than stories. I don't think most people who say they believe believe. I believe that if I pick up a rock and let go of it it's going to fall to the earth not float away. I don't think people believe in God the way they believe in Gravity.

[Dogmeat]

Yes it literally is, just like if I buy a car and it breaks down within an hour than it's the designer's fault (as well as my own for getting a Chevy ayooooo)

Or the manufacturer's fault. Or the mechanic's fault. Or any number of persons, really

This is a lame attempt at a dodge. Putting aside that it is unlikely they brought the car to a mechanic "within an hour" of buying it, in order for your nitpick to apply to the analogy, you would have to postulate that God uses "mechanics."

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Isn't this the same thing as the "why don't/do you believe in Allah SWT" thread? Was tye name changed or something?

[Australian rePublic]

If God didn't tell people how to act, fewer people would act compassionately

This sort of argument kind of really irks me. How can we make that sort of judgment? I mean, we don’t know that God exists, let alone whether he tells people how to act. And we can’t just blame everything negative- e.g, committing murder- on the people themselves, and say all the nice parts are the work of all-powerful deity. So even if they did exist, they’d be responsible for all actions humanity undertakes, good and bad. Even if you bring up free will, if they’re an all-powerful deity, they would be omniscient and therefore know exactly what everyone would do, including all the bad things, and still let it pass.

Now, I’m guessing that stuff has probably already been brought up at this point in the thread, but I’m tired and saw this and was compelled to respond. So yeah.

No. You misunderstand. Some people need religion in order to be good. Were it not for religion, these people wouldn't be good. Whether or not their faith is true, they believe it strongly enough to obey it and comit good acts that they wouldn't have otherwise comitted. Same applies to people who use religion for evil (unless of cource, their evil interpretations of their holy book is intentionally interpreted with malice)

[Farnhamia]

Isn't this the same thing as the "why don't/do you believe in Allah SWT" thread? Was tye name changed or something?

<.<

It's always had this title.

>.>

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Can't say I was ever "virulent," but my deconversion was brought about by my (at the time) fairly-serious girlfriend asking if I believed in God. I started to answer "yes" before realizing that I couldn't lie to her. Which is when I realized I didn't believe.

So yes, I can understand that.

I realized I that regardless of what I said I didn't actually think of religion as more than stories. I don't think most people who say they believe believe. I believe that if I pick up a rock and let go of it it's going to fall to the earth not float away. I don't think people believe in God the way they believe in Gravity.

What are you trying to say?

[Dogmeat]

Can't say I was ever "virulent," but my deconversion was brought about by my (at the time) fairly-serious girlfriend asking if I believed in God. I started to answer "yes" before realizing that I couldn't lie to her. Which is when I realized I didn't believe.

So yes, I can understand that.

I realized I that regardless of what I said I didn't actually think of religion as more than stories. I don't think most people who say they believe believe. I believe that if I pick up a rock and let go of it it's going to fall to the earth not float away. I don't think people believe in God the way they believe in Gravity.

You should try living in a Bethesda engine. That rock could go anywhere.

[Australian rePublic]

If God didn't tell people how to act, fewer people would act compassionately

So, those good Christians who step over the homeless man on their way home from the sermon about loving their neighbour would feel free to spit on the homeless man without the Bible?

Or those atheistic doctors working on cures for cancer would just go "nah, don't feel like it, mate" if science could ever prove they were correct?

Wouldn't that say more about the individuals than the existence of God?

Yes, which was the point that I was trying to make