Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[Dogmeat]

But if they are good, noble and amazing God should get the credit ?

Nope. People are good, people are bad. God's job is to judge them and guide them

Awfully presumptuous to be telling God what his job is.

[Australian rePublic]

Nope. People are good, people are bad. God's job is to judge them and guide them

Awfully presumptuous to be telling God what his job is.

Wouldn't judging and guiding His creation be part of God's job?
Also, no, Job's suffering was Satan

[Dogmeat]

Awfully presumptuous to be telling God what his job is.

Wouldn't judging and guiding His creation be part of God's job?

I don't know, I wouldn't presume to speak for them.

[Dogmeat]

Also, no, Job's suffering was Satan

Only if you've never read the Bible. God totally made a bet with Satan to do every bad thing he could think of to Job. You can't argue that's not on God.

[Australian rePublic]

Because they are normal people who do all the same shit as everyone else. This is like talking to a child.

Hmmm... no.

We are called to be holy. We are not to conform to the world, and so, you will not see Christians in bars and other places of immorality, because we are called to a higher moral standard.

What's wrong with bars? Pubs have pretty good food and a glass of red really washes down well every now and then

[The Grims]

Because they are normal people who do all the same shit as everyone else. This is like talking to a child.

Hmmm... no.

We are called to be holy. We are not to conform to the world, and so, you will not see Christians in bars and other places of immorality, because we are called to a higher moral standard.

So monks do not brew beer ?

[Australian rePublic]

See, this is why you guys aren't invited to our barbecue. Total buzzkills.

Besides whats wrong with drinking some beer?

Nothing. In fact, one of the churches that I frequent actually sells beer... and wine... whenever they host fundraiser luncheons

[Australian rePublic]

I wonder what our fellow fanatical Christians think of celebrating Jesus' alleged birthday on Sol Invictus/Midwinter Day.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHbOpS-N0c

[Page]

The whole notion of God judging us is ludicrous. If God is an omnipotent, omniscient being, then we are to God what bacteria are to us. Do you have any interest in which bacteria are good and which bacteria are sinful? We are infinitely closer to bacteria than we are to an all-powerful God. Compared to such a being, we are hardly even sentient.

If there's a God, the last thing he cares about is human affairs. That humans think a god would have human emotions like love and jealousy points to god being made by man.

[Australian rePublic]

In either case, Christians are called to a higher moral standard.

Evidence of this in reality, zero.

A Christian that commits a major sin like adultery would be punished by the church leadership

I fail to see what makes adultery a major sin.

(this happens mostly in Protestant churches here, as the RCC doesn't keep track of its members)

Uhuh.

and if said individual was a leader, he can no longer hold a position.

Looks at church of England and their rather shitty history. Looks at the various churches where the leaders where the leaders maintained their positions.

In general, we are supposed to emulate Christ on Earth.

(I actually meant gay bars but for some reason I didn't completely type it)

And yet I see no real difference between how Christians actually act and how the rest of the world actually acts. And like I said, Christian morality seems to follow that of society.

Maybe because Western Society was built on Christian values

[Australian rePublic]

The flood was because people were completely evil, worse than they are now.

Even the babes in womb, even the animals who had no contact with humans?

I don't know about the animals, but it's possible thatt those babies would grow up to be evil, which was extremely easy in an evil society
[/quote]
There was no other option for god then to destroy everything...and start with a very unrighteous human and his children?
[/quote]
Slightly less unrightous

Oh and, funny thing, the flood story is just a copy of older flood legends that are attributed to different gods and with different protagonists.

So sad turing to look back at the place you where raised and the friends you had while they are destroyed.

Lot's wife turned back because she was unwilling to depart from sin

[Australian rePublic]

Nope. People are good, people are bad. God's job is to judge them and guide them

So you think the people in this topic who give god instead of their doctors credit for their recovery are dickheads ?

No

[Australian rePublic]

The flood was because people were completely evil, worse than they are now.

Even the babes in womb, even the animals who had no contact with humans? There was no other option for god then to destroy everything...and start with a very unrighteous human and his children? Oh and, funny thing, the flood story is just a copy of older flood legends that are attributed to different gods and with different protagonists.

So sad turing to look back at the place you where raised and the friends you had while they are destroyed.

God's commands about slavery were to be fair to the slaves and treat them well, that shouldn't be a bad thing.

...slavery itself is unfair, so one cannot be fair to a slave. The fact that god did not end slavery is a mark against him.

God had to permit slavery, as everyone's hearts were hardened

Hell is for people who choose that they don't want to be with God. That's not his fault.

or for people who do not believe that a god exists. If I do not believe a god exists then I am not making the choice to be seperate. I don't think luke skywalker exists either, .

Free will is choosing if you want to be with God or not. If someone chooses to be away from God then he gives them what they want.

repeating this does not make it true, and I once again point to the turn over all your money or I shoot you thing again.

Insincere repentance counts for nothing

And the commands are to protect people from different things. He commands people to be kind to everyone to protect people from being treated unfairly, and he commands children to obey their parents because their parents will protect them, and things like that.

[/quote] Oh, what about the parents who abuse their kids?[/quote]
I don't know. I'll have to look tbat one up

[Australian rePublic]

He compared himself to a father, and he doesn't do those things.

Oh...the flood, lots wife and the flood again(among other examples), the dictates about slaves, the flood again, and the idea of hell. Yes your god does all those things.

He gave people free will so they would choose to worship him. And following God is loving God.

Like I said, he sounds like an abusive parent/partner. One can obey without loving. Hand over all your money or I shoot you is free will? And you did not answer protect from what?

He needs to protect us from ourselves

[The Free Joy State]

Even the babes in womb, even the animals who had no contact with humans? There was no other option for god then to destroy everything...and start with a very unrighteous human and his children? Oh and, funny thing, the flood story is just a copy of older flood legends that are attributed to different gods and with different protagonists. So sad turing to look back at the place you where raised and the friends you had while they are destroyed. ...slavery itself is unfair, so one cannot be fair to a slave. The fact that god did not end slavery is a mark against him.

God had to permit slavery, as everyone's hearts were hardened

If God permitted slavery due to man's hard hearts, would that not make it a punishment?

And, if it was a punishment (one that brought generations of suffering and pain and degradation), how could it be said that God loved the slaves?

Oh...the flood, lots wife and the flood again(among other examples), the dictates about slaves, the flood again, and the idea of hell. Yes your god does all those things. Like I said, he sounds like an abusive parent/partner. One can obey without loving. Hand over all your money or I shoot you is free will? And you did not answer protect from what?

He needs to protect us from ourselves

Controlling and emotionally abusive partners often only want to "protect people from themselves" (by preventing their partners from doing things that cause no harm and which they would choose to do).

That's not a very convincing argument.

[Australian rePublic]

Considering what happened to Lot afterwards and the fact that God did absolutely nothing to stop that in his perfect omnipotence and omniscience it may be a bit of a mistake to bring up Lot in the first place.

True, being raped by one's daughters is not exactly a great thing, even if he did try to give them up to a rape mob.

Yep. If these were the good guys, imagine how bad everyone didn't have a choice. Also, Lot didn't really have a choice. It was more the lesser of two evils

[Space Captain Brian Surgeon]

Also, no, Job's suffering was Satan

Only if you've never read the Bible. God totally made a bet with Satan to do every bad thing he could think of to Job. You can't argue that's not on God.

So why didn't you respond to this, Australian rePublic?

[Australian rePublic]

3. As God wanted it, slavery wouldn't be completely unfair. It's because humans made it that way.
4. God shows himself to people, and if they don't believe after that it's a choice.
5. God doesn't want people to be afraid of hell..

3. Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money." Suuuuuuuuuure.
4. God hasn't shown himself to me. And if he has, it's not my fault, nor is it my choice, that my requirements for believing are different from those of others.
5. Sounds like God doesn't understand the creatures he's created. Everyone should be afraid of eternal punishment, especially if you can be sent there for something as insignificant as lying, but forgetting to repent.

5. Repentance is an act of wanting to make a concious effort to change who you are. Repentance is NOT a game of who has the greatest memory.

[Australian rePublic]

No True Scotsman my ass. You seem to be ignorant of what really makes a Christian. And no one said that they all do follow this standard, all that is said is that they should and if they do not, their authenticity as Christians is questionable.

I can go as far as saying that the Crusaders aren't Christian if the Bible's standards are concerned. The Bible itself states these for Christians:

"Be ye not conformed to the world"
"If you are in Christ, you are a new creation. The old is gone, and the new has come."
"Faith without works is dead"

A drunkard that converts to Christianity should strive to cease getting drunk. A cheater has to stop cheating. A wife beater must phase into a wife soother. A thief will cease stealing if he has become Christian.

That is how Christianity works. It is not just a badge you wear around while screaming "I am gonna go to heaven" whilst you live a life of sin. A Christian is supposed to detest sin. He/she is supposed to love what is good and hate what is evil. If a "Christian" is continually living in sin, then they are no more than a Christian only by name, but not in practice. We call these nominal Christians.

No, we call these christians. The norm for a group is what it does in reality, not what a text says they should be ideally.

Many Christians have comitted evil. That doesn't mean that Christianity in and of itself is evil. It's like arguing that atheism in and of itself is evil because many atheists have comitted evil

[The Grims]

No, we call these christians. The norm for a group is what it does in reality, not what a text says they should be ideally.

Many Christians have comitted evil. That doesn't mean that Christianity in and of itself is evil. It's like arguing that atheism in and of itself is evil because many atheists have comitted evil

Did I say that ? No.
Did I imply it is silly to call 99-100%% of christians "nominal christians" based on some fantasy ideal on how a "true" christian that has never been seen would act ? Yes.

[Schekel]

I admit believing in higher beings.
I blame my tiny shrew like ancestors hard-wiring imagination as a survival trait.
One tended to live to breed if one could imagine a snapping twig in the dark was a predator and hiding in fear instead of acting as though there was nothing to be concerned about and getting eaten for it.
It's now unavoidable to think anything other than there is something bigger and more incomprehensible.

Do i think it cares for me personally? No. No i do not.
Is it malicious then? Again, no.
It's neutral like all props in life.

it made sure my eyes and my ears are my own universe though...meaning everything else is hearsay.
when i die, my whole universe goes with me, as I am it's literal source.
Every creature is like that really.
I will however continue to enjoy the agreed construct we collectively call 'reality' until that time.
It's odd to see so many universes overlapping and yet we can muddle through it anyways.
A really neat design.

for me, religion is the problem. written by mankind to control mankind and to be avoided at all costs.
If any God has ideals and/or philosophies parallel to mine, (or appeals to me) it's the first red flag something is very very wrong.
It's supposed to be better than me.

all Gods can be broken down to a simple quote, "don't be a jerk.", only we always have a game of telephone with the message and it ends up twisted...
"this baby is gonna burn in hellfire forever if it doesn't get a special drop of water on it's forehead!"
Grishneshwar Temple Baby Toss
Frisbeetarianism
....and so on

meh

[Australian rePublic]

Care to read the article that has been linked?

And this also explains why correct interpretation is necessary.

It is a simple question what makes your interpretation so special compared to other thousands no millions of other interpretation of the Bible.

Well, Orthodox theology has changed very little over the centuries, meaning that it's atleast closer to the original faith than any other denomination. Denominations which have had reformatiom, after reformation, after reformation, are less likely to be true

[Australian rePublic]

To be fair, that argument is quite exhausted. It always goes like this.

Atheist: “There is no evidence for god.”
Christian: “YES THERE IS!”
Atheist: “Okay, show me.”
Christian: “Uh... EVERYTHING OF COURSE!”
Atheist: “That makes no sense.”
Christian: “ EVERYTHINNNNGGGG”
Atheist: “Care to elaborate?”
Christian: “ WELL THE BIBLE SAYS...”
Atheist: "A book is not evidence."
Christian: "Well...you have no evidence HE DOESN'T EXIST! SO THEREFORE HE EXIST! Checkmate atheist."

Speaking as an atheist, there are multiple perfectly valid, logical, and reasonable arguments for a god, though I still don't find many of them particularly convincing. Which god(s) are in control is the infinitely harder thing to prove.

Such as?

[Australian rePublic]

Ohh so many theological explanations that have been given throughout history by various sources. Some include
1.Because the African kids are the descendands of guy X who looked at his dad's privates and now they're all DOOOOMED.
2.Because some have been given grace and other have not, so sucks to be the latter as they will be DOOOOMED.
3.Because God loves everyone equally, but chooses to heal some and to let others die a painful death because PIE IN THE SKY.
4.Because the African kids' parents prayed THE WRONG WAY, the heretics and the infidels shall be DOOOOOMED.
And so on.

Black skin was indeed seen as the mark of Cain by some..

You mean mormons? No Christians really count them

[Australian rePublic]

Yes, exactly, God told them to do the work.

If humans get blamed for using their free will to do things god does not like then humans also get credit for doing things god does like, and none of it is god taking action. So no, god is not fulfilling any prayers, that would be humans fulfilling someone's prayer but because we are limited being unable to fulfill all prayers. God seems rather...impotent.

God might match the right person to the right starving child