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Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

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Geneviev
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Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Geneviev » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:02 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Geneviev wrote:They're really scientists, and the articles on the website are showing the evidence for creationism. There was soft tissue found on a fossil that was supposed to be 500 million years old.


That is indeed very convincing evidence for the Hindu creation tale :)

It should be Christian, but close enough?

Jolthig wrote:
Geneviev wrote:They're really scientists, and the articles on the website are showing the evidence for creationism. There was soft tissue found on a fossil that was supposed to be 500 million years old.

They might have degrees in science, but that doesnt mean any of their 'findings' are scientific.

There's an answer to that. The soft tissue in dinosaur bones remained (and it's been years since I read an article on that, debunking that creationist claim, so correct me anyone if I'm wrong) because some life-forms of some sort lived in there and made their home in it. I believe it's the same kind of forms that are in pond scum (again correct me if I'm wrong people, I really need updating on my info. It's been years since I read that one article haha)

That could be true. I don't know much about science.
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Jolthig
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am

Geneviev wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
That is indeed very convincing evidence for the Hindu creation tale :)

It should be Christian, but close enough?

Jolthig wrote:They might have degrees in science, but that doesnt mean any of their 'findings' are scientific.

There's an answer to that. The soft tissue in dinosaur bones remained (and it's been years since I read an article on that, debunking that creationist claim, so correct me anyone if I'm wrong) because some life-forms of some sort lived in there and made their home in it. I believe it's the same kind of forms that are in pond scum (again correct me if I'm wrong people, I really need updating on my info. It's been years since I read that one article haha)

That could be true. I don't know much about science.

Well, know one thing: Science is an unbiased study of the natural world and universe. :)

Science doesnt conform to any religious or political belief or even truth for that matter. Only available evidence, which is called theories.
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The Alma Mater
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Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:06 am

Geneviev wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
That is indeed very convincing evidence for the Hindu creation tale :)

It should be Christian, but close enough?


That's the point.
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It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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Salandriagado
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Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:03 am

Christian Confederation wrote:3. Science has yet to denonce gods exists, but have found much evidence he does exist.


Don't lie.

4. the many stories of people who died than came back.


Don't exist.

5.pepole servicing the impossible.ex: a group of people surviving 9/11 in a stair case when the rest of the tower collapsed, people servicing fire/ disaster/ war, Desmond dose serviving hacksaw ridge and saving nearly 100 men unarmed.


Not impossible at all.

And finally 6. Each year scintists are finding less and less habitable planets, making it look like Earth is a special place, percisly put here by someone.


You're lying again.
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:05 am

Geneviev wrote:And if a scientist is saying creationism is true, that's because the evidence supports it.


No, it isn't. "Scientist" is a spectacularly broad term. The actual experts on the topic say it's bullshit.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:07 am

Geneviev wrote:
Jolthig wrote:The problem is any view of the world that comes into play when it comes to science, doesn't make a finding scientific based on a religious observation.

If we argue for creationism (whatever form it is), it is only an opinion, and not evidence based on science. Which opinions aren't scientific either. They might help form theories, but that's it.

Most of the articles on creation.com are not scientific no matter many degrees in a university these self proclaimed scientists get or claim to get.

They're really scientists, and the articles on the website are showing the evidence for creationism.


If it's not a research paper in a respectable peer reviewed journal, it's bullshit. Seriously, this is ViXra-tier junk.

There was soft tissue found on a fossil that was supposed to be 500 million years old.


And?
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Thuzbekistan
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:40 am

Geneviev wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Maybe they've read a lot of religious tracts? No expert, but I believe that -- in a lot of evangelical tracts -- atheists who genuinely don't believe in God usually disbelieve because they've never actually heard of the concept of God/Jesus etc. And, as soon as they've been told, they're immediately converted, hallelujah and et cetera.

While -- of course -- reality doesn't support that, if someone truly believes that to be true, it must be rather disconcerting when it doesn't happen IRL.

That's actually mostly accurate. If someone doesn't believe in God, it's either because of the church or because they haven't heard of God before. That's why evangelicals (should) have missions.

I went to church for the first 19 years of my life. Decided God didnt exist at 15 but went until I moved out. Wasnt the Churches fault either.

Geneviev wrote:
Jolthig wrote:There is another problem too though. With recent ancient biblical manuscript discoveries, some atheists will see good reason why the bible should not be accepted as a valid book. Not to mention the creation story of genesis is unconvincing to your average scientist who works in biology.

The Bible as it exists now is still accurate. Also, creationism is supported by science.

Ugh.... no, it isnt. But creationism is a debate for another thread.

The Alma Mater wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:It can't be documented, because science can only speak on the natural universe (ie what is observable), and god is not part of the natural universe. As such science can't say that god does or does not exist let alone that the universe was made by a god.


Though admittedly people like Behe and Dembski tried.
They failed miserably, but they tried. They made an actual effort. I can respect that.
I cannot respect that they refuse to admit they were wrong, but hey.

My dad gave my one of Behe's books when he found out I was atheist. I learned a lot about how complex life is and how various processes work. His conclusions sucked tho.
Last edited by Thuzbekistan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aellex
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Tyranny by Majority

Postby Aellex » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:59 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
The funny thing here is that the response to your dissertation was actually quite civil. Seems to me that you were expecting all of us heathens to drop to our knees in supplication, and when we didn’t you got offended. Reflects more on you than anything else.

Maybe they've read a lot of religious tracts? No expert, but I believe that -- in a lot of evangelical tracts -- atheists who genuinely don't believe in God usually disbelieve because they've never actually heard of the concept of God/Jesus etc. And, as soon as they've been told, they're immediately converted, hallelujah and et cetera.

While -- of course -- reality doesn't support that, if someone truly believes that to be true, it must be rather disconcerting when it doesn't happen IRL.

It's not so much because they haven't heard of God than because they've bought what our zealotly secularist and materialist society say about religion.
A lot of Atheists or Agnostic are so by apathy more than genuine conviction and only need a little exposure to the Word to change themselves and become ready to listen, or so I've found from experience at least.
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:12 am

Aellex wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Maybe they've read a lot of religious tracts? No expert, but I believe that -- in a lot of evangelical tracts -- atheists who genuinely don't believe in God usually disbelieve because they've never actually heard of the concept of God/Jesus etc. And, as soon as they've been told, they're immediately converted, hallelujah and et cetera.

While -- of course -- reality doesn't support that, if someone truly believes that to be true, it must be rather disconcerting when it doesn't happen IRL.

It's not so much because they haven't heard of God than because they've bought what our zealotly secularist and materialist society say about religion.
A lot of Atheists or Agnostic are so by apathy more than genuine conviction and only need a little exposure to the Word to change themselves and become ready to listen, or so I've found from experience at least.

X to doubt.

Naw. As a southerner who grew up in a a church of 200 people and who tried so desperately to feel God's presence and to connect to him that I would go into my closet for an hour to two hours every day and read and study my bible and pray to God for some sort of response and fear, due to my calvinist upbringing, that I was predetermined for hell? Nah. I just need more exposure to the bible or Koran. You know what made me atheist? Exposure to other religions and realizing that I believed that all if them were going to hell and a lot if them believed I was. So I studied and read on most religions active in the world and determined that they're all crap, even christianity.

It annoys the hell out of me (lol) that I've always had people say to read the bible or to listen to this pastor when I know so much about the bible that, as an atheist, I was invited to be a counselor for multiple Christian camps because I can debate theology with the best of them and play Christian really well. Assuming I dont follow whatever religion because of secular society is just... ugh.
Last edited by Thuzbekistan on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aellex
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Founded: Apr 23, 2016
Tyranny by Majority

Postby Aellex » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:37 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Aellex wrote:It's not so much because they haven't heard of God than because they've bought what our zealotly secularist and materialist society say about religion.
A lot of Atheists or Agnostic are so by apathy more than genuine conviction and only need a little exposure to the Word to change themselves and become ready to listen, or so I've found from experience at least.

X to doubt.

Naw. As a southerner who grew up in a a church of 200 people and who tried so desperately to feel God's presence and to connect to him that I would go into my closet for an hour to two hours every day and read and study my bible and pray to God for some sort of response and fear, due to my calvinist upbringing, that I was predetermined for hell? Nah. I just need more exposure to the bible or Koran. You know what made me atheist? Exposure to other religions and realizing that I believed that all if them were going to hell and a lot if them believed I was. So I studied and read on most religions active in the world and determined that they're all crap, even christianity.

It annoys the hell out of me (lol) that I've always had people say to read the bible or to listen to this pastor when I know so much about the bible that, as an atheist, I was invited to be a counselor for multiple Christian camps because I can debate theology with the best of them and play Christian really well. Assuming I dont follow whatever religion because of secular society is just... ugh.

Emphasis on "a lot".

That you lost your faith is sad for you and hopefully you'll find it once more but your case is the exception, not the rule.
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The Grims
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Postby The Grims » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:42 am

Aellex wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:X to doubt.

Naw. As a southerner who grew up in a a church of 200 people and who tried so desperately to feel God's presence and to connect to him that I would go into my closet for an hour to two hours every day and read and study my bible and pray to God for some sort of response and fear, due to my calvinist upbringing, that I was predetermined for hell? Nah. I just need more exposure to the bible or Koran. You know what made me atheist? Exposure to other religions and realizing that I believed that all if them were going to hell and a lot if them believed I was. So I studied and read on most religions active in the world and determined that they're all crap, even christianity.

It annoys the hell out of me (lol) that I've always had people say to read the bible or to listen to this pastor when I know so much about the bible that, as an atheist, I was invited to be a counselor for multiple Christian camps because I can debate theology with the best of them and play Christian really well. Assuming I dont follow whatever religion because of secular society is just... ugh.

Emphasis on "a lot".

That you lost your faith is sad for you and hopefully you'll find it once more but your case is the exception, not the rule.

Do you have the figures to back up that claim ?

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Aellex
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Tyranny by Majority

Postby Aellex » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:49 am

The Grims wrote:
Aellex wrote:Emphasis on "a lot".

That you lost your faith is sad for you and hopefully you'll find it once more but your case is the exception, not the rule.

Do you have the figures to back up that claim ?

Personal experience much like everyone here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:50 am

Aellex wrote:
The Grims wrote: Do you have the figures to back up that claim ?

Personal experience much like everyone here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I claim personal experience too for my faith. :p
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:25 am

Aellex wrote:
The Grims wrote: Do you have the figures to back up that claim ?

Personal experience much like everyone here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hard to make statements like that
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Estanglia
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Postby Estanglia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:56 am

Christian Confederation wrote:Why do I believe in God?
1. I was raised to.
2. Because it makes sense to me.
3. Science has yet to denonce gods exists, but have found much evidence he does exist.


Prove it.

Geneviev wrote:
Jolthig wrote:There is another problem too though. With recent ancient biblical manuscript discoveries, some atheists will see good reason why the bible should not be accepted as a valid book. Not to mention the creation story of genesis is unconvincing to your average scientist who works in biology.

The Bible as it exists now is still accurate. Also, creationism is supported by science.


No creationist theory is supported by actual science.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:56 am

Aellex wrote:
The Grims wrote: Do you have the figures to back up that claim ?

Personal experience much like everyone here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh so you have no real evidence huh? If that is the case don’t make giant nonsense claims about atheist.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:01 am

Christian Confederation wrote:3. Science has yet to denonce gods exists,


I can think of a church that needs to denonce.

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Cappuccina
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Postby Cappuccina » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:05 am

Andsed wrote:
Aellex wrote:Personal experience much like everyone here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Oh so you have no real evidence huh? If that is the case don’t make giant nonsense claims about atheist.

The proof is literally everywhere.
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:07 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Andsed wrote:Oh so you have no real evidence huh? If that is the case don’t make giant nonsense claims about atheist.

The proof is literally everywhere.

Are we talking about atheists or another god now?
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:08 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Andsed wrote:Oh so you have no real evidence huh? If that is the case don’t make giant nonsense claims about atheist.

The proof is literally everywhere.

Oh really show we me hard facts proving what Allex said about atheist. You can’t because his claim that Atheist are apathetic and are easy to convert is nothing more than a sweeping claim about a group of people.
Last edited by Andsed on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Cappuccina
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Postby Cappuccina » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:12 am

Andsed wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:The proof is literally everywhere.

Oh really show we me hard facts proving what Allex said about atheist. You can’t because his claim that Atheist are apathetic and are easy to convert is nothing more than a sweeping claim about a group of people.

His claims aren't wrong really, atheists tend to ascribe to notions of "moral relativism".
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:18 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Andsed wrote:Oh really show we me hard facts proving what Allex said about atheist. You can’t because his claim that Atheist are apathetic and are easy to convert is nothing more than a sweeping claim about a group of people.

His claims aren't wrong really, atheists tend to ascribe to notions of "moral relativism".

Subjective Morality and the reason atheists became atheists are not the same topics......

Allex said that atheists become so because of a secularized society. We wanted numbers to back that claim up.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:43 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Andsed wrote:Oh really show we me hard facts proving what Allex said about atheist. You can’t because his claim that Atheist are apathetic and are easy to convert is nothing more than a sweeping claim about a group of people.

His claims aren't wrong really, atheists tend to ascribe to notions of "moral relativism".

Prove that claim then. Provide me some evidence that shows this is not just a sweeping generalization of atheist.
Hello I am Andsed the Pun King of TET and welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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New Legland
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Postby New Legland » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:56 am

Geneviev wrote:
Jolthig wrote:There is another problem too though. With recent ancient biblical manuscript discoveries, some atheists will see good reason why the bible should not be accepted as a valid book. Not to mention the creation story of genesis is unconvincing to your average scientist who works in biology.

The Bible as it exists now is still accurate. Also, creationism is supported by science.


[1:5] God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
[1:12] The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good.
[1:16] God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars.

No, it's not. I don't know where you got that from, because no scientist believes that night, day, and plants were created before the sun, no scientist believes that the moon is luminescent, and no scientist believes that every star was created simultaneously. If this is supposed to be some metaphor, I'd really like to know what says that it is, because personal interpretation isn't going to cut it. And that still wouldn't explain the order of events.

If creationism is supported by science, why do around 97% of scientists believe in evolution? There is actually a list that was compiled of scientists who have variations of the name Steve that accept evolution that is longer than Answers in Genesis' list of scientists who dissent from evolution.
Last edited by New Legland on Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:39 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Andsed wrote:Oh so you have no real evidence huh? If that is the case don’t make giant nonsense claims about atheist.

The proof is literally everywhere.


Then it should be easy for you to provide it.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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