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Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:51 am

Andsed wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Pardon me, but evidence for aliens? What would that be? I would love to learn.

Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.


It's not the wrong word per se, just a little non-specific: this is evidence in the Bayesian sense of the word.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:52 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Andsed wrote:Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space


First, note that you can't prove anything that isn't a statement of mathematics or pure logic, so that's irrelevant. Second, note that you can have evidence both in favour of, and against, a proposition: the absence of evidence absolutely is evidence against the existence of aliens. There is also other evidence in favour of it, and it mostly comes out to a wash of "maybe, we don't know". That evidence in favour of the existence of a deity simply doesn't exist, and there's far more evidence against it, so that balance doesn't come out.

Note also that the response to a lack of convincing evidence one way or the other on a thing is to go and do some research to help to decide it one way or the other. What evidence-hunting are you doing?
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:53 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Andsed wrote:Okay let me state this in a way you will understand. While there is no real evidence of god or aliens we can reasonably believe in aliens as we know it is possible for them to exist. But with god we don’t have any pieces of proof saying god could even exist.

You're assuming omni-potency=lack of emotion


Any entity that's spent millions of years torturing people to death lacks anything that can reasonably be called "emotion".
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:54 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:You're assuming omni-potency=lack of emotion


Any entity that's spent millions of years torturing people to death lacks anything that can reasonably be called "emotion".

You really need to look up the concept of schadenfreude. Also sadism, evil and a few others.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:58 am

Australian rePublic wrote:All I read in this thread is "cancer, cancer, cancer". Let me tell you a story. I almost died when I was 5 years old (not from cancer, but death is death). I don't even know how I survived this long. In addition to that, and seperate to that, I have a genetic disease called Thallasemia Minor, I have aspberger's syndrome. All of these don't mean that God isn't real. All of these don't mean that God is evil. Just because you don't understand why God does something, it doesn't mean that God is evil. I learnt that the hard way. (And no, before you strawman me, I am NOT saying that cancer is good. We should try to fight cancer as hard as possible, as we are doing, which is an excellent thing). Atheists keep talking about how morality is subjective, and indeed, 200 years ago, it was perfectly considered perfectly acceptable to think that one race was superior to other races, yet we changed our perspective of that, why? (Well, in all honesty, because Hitler took that concept way too far, causing the rest of us to see how idiotic it was.) Up until 200 years ago, slavery was perfectly acceptable, but then we abandoned it, why, I don't know. Now as for cancer, cancer is an evil and horrible thing, I rhink so, you think so and God thinks so. So why does God allow such a horrid thing to exist? I don't know. What I do know however, is that we humans cannot agree on what is good and evil, because we don't have access to the bigger picture, God who has access to the bigger picture, is capable of knowing how to run the universe, and has remained fairly consistant with His morality. Why does God allow cancer? Does He enjoy watch people suffer? No, of coarse not, in fact, it's the opposite, God suffers with them. So why does He allow cancer? I don't know. All I know ia that God is more knowlegable than me. Trying to argue that God is evil for the simple reason that you don't understand His will, is like trying to argue that your mechanic is evil because you don't understand why He changed the motor oil. Trying to argue that God is evil because you don't understand His will, is like trying to argue that your hotel receptionist is evil, because you don't understand why she's charging you for room service, etc.

I think you forgot all the posts answering your alien question.
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Ausinia
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Postby Ausinia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:01 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:All I read in this thread is "cancer, cancer, cancer". Let me tell you a story. I almost died when I was 5 years old (not from cancer, but death is death). I don't even know how I survived this long. In addition to that, and seperate to that, I have a genetic disease called Thallasemia Minor, I have aspberger's syndrome. All of these don't mean that God isn't real. All of these don't mean that God is evil. Just because you don't understand why God does something, it doesn't mean that God is evil. I learnt that the hard way. (And no, before you strawman me, I am NOT saying that cancer is good. We should try to fight cancer as hard as possible, as we are doing, which is an excellent thing). Atheists keep talking about how morality is subjective, and indeed, 200 years ago, it was perfectly considered perfectly acceptable to think that one race was superior to other races, yet we changed our perspective of that, why? (Well, in all honesty, because Hitler took that concept way too far, causing the rest of us to see how idiotic it was.) Up until 200 years ago, slavery was perfectly acceptable, but then we abandoned it, why, I don't know. Now as for cancer, cancer is an evil and horrible thing, I rhink so, you think so and God thinks so. So why does God allow such a horrid thing to exist? I don't know. What I do know however, is that we humans cannot agree on what is good and evil, because we don't have access to the bigger picture, God who has access to the bigger picture, is capable of knowing how to run the universe, and has remained fairly consistant with His morality. Why does God allow cancer? Does He enjoy watch people suffer? No, of coarse not, in fact, it's the opposite, God suffers with them. So why does He allow cancer? I don't know. All I know ia that God is more knowlegable than me. Trying to argue that God is evil for the simple reason that you don't understand His will, is like trying to argue that your mechanic is evil because you don't understand why He changed the motor oil. Trying to argue that God is evil because you don't understand His will, is like trying to argue that your hotel receptionist is evil, because you don't understand why she's charging you for room service, etc.

I think you forgot all the posts answering your alien question.

It’s funny when you’ve had enough time to answer them all, but choose not to.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:02 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:In English


In English


My point is that we shouldn't get too caught up o n terminology


Nobody is discussing terminology here. We're discussing if torturing children to death is an evil act.

*looks at thread topic*

Funny! I could've sworn it was "Why Do/Don't You Believe in God", not "On the Torture of Children". I don't share Aussie's beliefs, but the wideness of the topic would allow for a variety of acceptable branches, I'd have thought.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:02 am

Fun story.

I was not raised as an atheist. Nobody in my youth ever tried to indoctrinate me against god. But nobody ever tried to indoctrinate me with religion either. Like, the few religious rituals I ever engaged in were more so "because that's how it's done" than because anyone actually believed. Thus I always grew up thinking it was basically just a set of things people do because of tradition and heritage and stuff. Like wedding rings or ties. (seriously, there is no functional use for a tie)

Imagine my shock and surprise upon learning people actually genuinely believe that stuff. That actually took me a while to process.


I think that answers the OP.
Last edited by Purpelia on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:02 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:This is kind of silly, since Genesis even defines what it means by day: "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." So we're clearly talking about actual days.

In English

But even if it were true that these are epochs or something, the story still gets the order of everything wrong. With God creating the Earth and plantlife before the sun and stars. So it doesn't matter how long the days are, the story is still clearly wrong.

In English


Fred Hoyle came up with the name as an insult. It's not something scientists are committed to, it just sort of stuck.

My point is that we shouldn't get too caught up o n terminology

You cant just say "in English" and act like that saved you. You're gonna have to go back to the oldest copies you have and explain how this creation myth is just bad translation.
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:04 am

Ausinia wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:I think you forgot all the posts answering your alien question.

It’s funny when you’ve had enough time to answer them all, but choose not to.

? I answered it?
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Ausinia
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Postby Ausinia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:12 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Ausinia wrote:It’s funny when you’ve had enough time to answer them all, but choose not to.

? I answered it?

No I mean Aussie, he has all the time, sorry, not you
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This nation does not completely agree with my views
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:15 am

Ausinia wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:? I answered it?

No I mean Aussie, he has all the time, sorry, not you


Aussie first has to watch all of Startrek, Starwars, Stargate, Doctor Who, the movies of the alien franchise, dune, Captain Harlock, the Marvel extended univserse etc. etc. etc. before he can decide which aliens are definately real and which are made up.

Obviously.
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United States of Americanas
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Postby United States of Americanas » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:19 am

I believe in God Jesus and The Holy Spirit but not in any way that traditional religion portrays them.

Traditional religion says that the gays will be condemned and those who masturbate or view porn or “sin” will be condemned.

JESUS DIED ON A FUCKING CROSS TO SET US FREE FROM THE LAWS OF SIN AND DEATH. HE HUNG THERE FOR HORRIBLE AGONIZING DEATH TO SET US FREE BUT INSTEAD THE CHURCHES CONTINUE TO PUSH THE HELL AND BRIMSTONE BULLSHIT.

Therefore yes, I believe in God but I have created my own religion. The core beliefs are as follows.

1. God is universal love existing everywhere and nowhere at all times. He is lawful and lawless at the same time and he will approach his followers and attempt to reach people to become connected with them by whatever avenue the person is comfortable receiving God.

2. God set a rainbow in the sky after the great flood and decreed that he shall never strike the earth or its people’s. In addition is one and only son died an agonizing death to set us free from the tyranny of religious doctrinal laws of sin and death. Therefore the vast majority of The Bible and most holy texts are null and void.

3. ALL ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENTITLED TO LIFE IN THE HEAVENS. PERIOD. (Some May need to undergo purification processes before entry. Nonetheless ALL SHALL ENTER THE GOLDEN GATES!)

(PS: I WILL NOT RESPOND TO THIS THREAD ANY FURTHER. I CAME HERE TO ANSWER THE OP’S SINGLE LINE QUESTION STATED IN THE TOPIC. I DIDNT COME TO ENTERTAIN DEBATES OF RELIGION)
Last edited by United States of Americanas on Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:23 am

United States of Americanas wrote:3. ALL ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENTITLED TO LIFE IN THE HEAVENS. PERIOD. (Some May need to undergo purification processes before entry. Nonetheless ALL SHALL ENTER THE GOLDEN GATES!)

Even pedophiles?

I actually think this is a version of god I like even less than the original.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:26 am

United States of Americanas wrote:I believe in God Jesus and The Holy Spirit but not in any way that traditional religion portrays them.

Traditional religion says that the gays will be condemned and those who masturbate or view porn or “sin” will be condemned.

JESUS DIED ON A FUCKING CROSS TO SET US FREE FROM THE LAWS OF SIN AND DEATH. HE HUNG THERE FOR HORRIBLE AGONIZING DEATH TO SET US FREE BUT INSTEAD THE CHURCHES CONTINUE TO PUSH THE HELL AND BRIMSTONE BULLSHIT.

Therefore yes, I believe in God but I have created my own religion. The core beliefs are as follows.

1. God is universal love existing everywhere and nowhere at all times. He is lawful and lawless at the same time and he will approach his followers and attempt to reach people to become connected with them by whatever avenue the person is comfortable receiving God.

2. God set a rainbow in the sky after the great flood and decreed that he shall never strike the earth or its people’s. In addition is one and only son died an agonizing death to set us free from the tyranny of religious doctrinal laws of sin and death. Therefore the vast majority of The Bible and most holy texts are null and void.

3. ALL ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENTITLED TO LIFE IN THE HEAVENS. PERIOD. (Some May need to undergo purification processes before entry. Nonetheless ALL SHALL ENTER THE GOLDEN GATES!)

1. Doubt. He has killed millions on purpose supposedly to cleanse the world of the wicked.
2. Yup. Right after killing millions. But seven colors caused by the refraction of light through water is a pretty enough sight to make up for that, I guess.
3. Only if you ignore the bible and what jesus said. Edit: I wonder what sort of purification process awaits Hitler and stalin and if their victims will be ok seeing them in heaven....

Your statement of fact regarding Jesus's execution also seems odd since there isn't a record of it. The only reason to accept that Jesus even existed is the size of the religion which came afterwards. Though, I do wonder if jesus had a twin brother like some first century churches believed...
Last edited by Thuzbekistan on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Diversita
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Postby Diversita » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:27 am

Without saying whether I do or not, I'll simply say because my heart leads me that way. If you want to make up your own answer based on that, I'm not going to stop you.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:31 am

United States of Americanas wrote:I believe in God Jesus and The Holy Spirit but not in any way that traditional religion portrays them.

Traditional religion says that the gays will be condemned and those who masturbate or view porn or “sin” will be condemned.

JESUS DIED ON A FUCKING CROSS TO SET US FREE FROM THE LAWS OF SIN AND DEATH. HE HUNG THERE FOR HORRIBLE AGONIZING DEATH TO SET US FREE BUT INSTEAD THE CHURCHES CONTINUE TO PUSH THE HELL AND BRIMSTONE BULLSHIT.

Therefore yes, I believe in God but I have created my own religion. The core beliefs are as follows.
Well, at least you don’t follow the organized crooks...
United States of Americanas wrote:1. God is universal love existing everywhere and nowhere at all times. He is lawful and lawless at the same time and he will approach his followers and attempt to reach people to become connected with them by whatever avenue the person is comfortable receiving God.
You’re going to need to be more concrete: How does he reach non-believers?
United States of Americanas wrote:2. God set a rainbow in the sky after the great flood and decreed that he shall never strike the earth or its people’s.
I knew there’d be bullshit somewhere!
United States of Americanas wrote: In addition is one and only son died an agonizing death to set us free from the tyranny of religious doctrinal laws of sin and death. Therefore the vast majority of The Bible and most holy texts are null and void.
“I sent my son to die to change the rules I created and can change at any time.”
United States of Americanas wrote:3. ALL ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENTITLED TO LIFE IN THE HEAVENS. PERIOD. (Some May need to undergo purification processes before entry. Nonetheless ALL SHALL ENTER THE GOLDEN GATES!)
Hitler and Ghandi are neighbors in heaven. This is just...
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:31 am

Diversita wrote:Without saying whether I do or not, I'll simply say because my heart leads me that way. If you want to make up your own answer based on that, I'm not going to stop you.


A far better answer than "I saw a flame flicker, and therefor denomination X of religion Y is the only one that can be correct".
So I hope you find happiness in your heart.
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:33 am

Kowani wrote:Hitler and Ghandi are neighbors in heaven. This is just...

On the plus side I heard Charley Manson actually plays some mean music.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:34 am

Kowani wrote:Hitler and Ghandi are neighbors in heaven. This is just...


They were both vegetarians and loved animals. So plenty common ground.
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Diversita
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Postby Diversita » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:34 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Diversita wrote:Without saying whether I do or not, I'll simply say because my heart leads me that way. If you want to make up your own answer based on that, I'm not going to stop you.


A far better answer than "I saw a flame flicker, and therefor denomination X of religion Y is the only one that can be correct".
So I hope you find happiness in your heart.


Thank you. :3

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:37 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Kowani wrote:Hitler and Ghandi are neighbors in heaven. This is just...


They were both vegetarians and loved animals. So plenty common ground.

Depends on your definition of animal considering Hitler called and described Jews as rats.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:39 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
They were both vegetarians and loved animals. So plenty common ground.

Depends on your definition of animal considering Hitler called and described Jews as rats.

True. But you'll struggle to find animal rights activists these days that are going to protest killing rats or roaches either. And Nazi Germany was the first and largest adopter of animal rights legislation. Bottom line is really that it's an easy step from being a racist to being a traitor to your own species as well. Modern activists would do good to remember that.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:42 am

Purpelia wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Depends on your definition of animal considering Hitler called and described Jews as rats.

True. But you'll struggle to find animal rights activists these days that are going to protest killing rats or roaches either. And Nazi Germany was the first and largest adopter of animal rights legislation. Bottom line is really that it's an easy step from being a racist to being a traitor to your own species as well. Modern activists would do good to remember that.

Not a fan of where this is going. Let's stop here.
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Ausinia
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Postby Ausinia » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:45 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:I believe in God Jesus and The Holy Spirit but not in any way that traditional religion portrays them.

Traditional religion says that the gays will be condemned and those who masturbate or view porn or “sin” will be condemned.

JESUS DIED ON A FUCKING CROSS TO SET US FREE FROM THE LAWS OF SIN AND DEATH. HE HUNG THERE FOR HORRIBLE AGONIZING DEATH TO SET US FREE BUT INSTEAD THE CHURCHES CONTINUE TO PUSH THE HELL AND BRIMSTONE BULLSHIT.

Therefore yes, I believe in God but I have created my own religion. The core beliefs are as follows.

1. God is universal love existing everywhere and nowhere at all times. He is lawful and lawless at the same time and he will approach his followers and attempt to reach people to become connected with them by whatever avenue the person is comfortable receiving God.

2. God set a rainbow in the sky after the great flood and decreed that he shall never strike the earth or its people’s. In addition is one and only son died an agonizing death to set us free from the tyranny of religious doctrinal laws of sin and death. Therefore the vast majority of The Bible and most holy texts are null and void.

3. ALL ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENTITLED TO LIFE IN THE HEAVENS. PERIOD. (Some May need to undergo purification processes before entry. Nonetheless ALL SHALL ENTER THE GOLDEN GATES!)

1. Doubt. He has killed millions on purpose supposedly to cleanse the world of the wicked.
2. Yup. Right after killing millions. But seven colors caused by the refraction of light through water is a pretty enough sight to make up for that, I guess.
3. Only if you ignore the bible and what jesus said.

Your statement of fact regarding Jesus's execution also seems odd since there isn't a record of it. The only reason to accept that Jesus even existed is the size of the religion which came afterwards. Though, I do wonder if jesus had a twin brother like some first century churches believed...

on your second point, ahah, seven colours refracted that is done through science, not a ‘miracle’
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Im currently working on my storefront and factbooks, estimated time of completion: ERROR
This nation does not completely agree with my views
You though I was bothered? No, not yet
Ausinia Weapons & Tech
THE UNITED COMMONWEALTH of AUSINIA
Maybe, soon :(
My Battery’s low and it’s getting dark...

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