Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[New Legland]

There's a number differences between a belief in aliens and a belief in a god. You can't use the same logic to justify belief for both of them.

Why?

For one, the main justification for belief in aliens is simply the vastness of the universe and that probability suggests that as it has occurred once, there is a very high chance it has occurred elsewhere. Meanwhile, justifications that I've seen for belief in a god similar to this are based off of the appearance of the universe to be designed and the probability that it was pure chance. The differences lie when you consider that belief in aliens is based off of the already known existence of life, but (this justification, anyway) belief in a god is based off of conjecture with a god as an explanation. There are a few arguments against the supposed design of the universe, but I'll leave it at that. Also, you don't see many people claiming that they believe in a god, but that they believe in their god. While the justification shown above could be considered evidence for a god, it says nothing for specific gods. And I recognize that many people have had experiences with their god, but testimonials don't do much for actual evidence and many people of different faiths have had these experiences. Meanwhile, the vast majority of people don't believe in any specific kind of alien, just the fact that life of some form exists out there.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Because there is much more evidence for aliens and it is much more possible they exist than god. Don’t be obtuse.

Pardon me, but evidence for aliens? What would that be? I would love to learn.

Me.

I mean what?

[Dogmeat]

This is kind of silly, since Genesis even defines what it means by day: "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." So we're clearly talking about actual days.

In English

But even if it were true that these are epochs or something, the story still gets the order of everything wrong. With God creating the Earth and plantlife before the sun and stars. So it doesn't matter how long the days are, the story is still clearly wrong.

In English

You think the order changes between the Hebrew and its English translation? And that thousands of competent theologians and translators just never noticed?

At this point, your justification for believing the Bible is, "we are so bad at understanding the Bible, it could say anything."

My point is that we shouldn't get too caught up o n terminology

No. That was Godular's point. You used it to try and accuse us of something. And you failed.

[Australian rePublic]

Pardon me, but evidence for aliens? What would that be? I would love to learn.

Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space

[Australian rePublic]

If God does exist, then His job would be very stressful

[Farnhamia]

If God does exist, then His job would be very stressful

Why? If, as you say, God exists "outside of time and space," why is he subject to physical ailments like stress?

[Hrythingland]

If God does exist, then His job would be very stressful

God is omnipotent, he cannot suffer from 'stress'.

[Andsed]

Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space

Okay let me state this in a way you will understand. While there is no real evidence of god or aliens we can reasonably believe in aliens as we know it is possible for them to exist. But with god we don’t have any pieces of proof saying god could even exist.

[Australian rePublic]

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space

Okay let me state this in a way you will understand. While there is no real evidence of god or aliens we can reasonably believe in aliens as we know it is possible for them to exist. But with god we don’t have any pieces of proof saying god could even exist.

You're assuming omni-potency=lack of emotion

[Andsed]

Okay let me state this in a way you will understand. While there is no real evidence of god or aliens we can reasonably believe in aliens as we know it is possible for them to exist. But with god we don’t have any pieces of proof saying god could even exist.

You're assuming omni-potency=lack of emotion

Please address my arguments instead of some shit about god and emotion which I never brought up.

[Menassa]

If God does exist, then His job would be very stressful

Perhaps that's why he "rested and was refreshed."

[Segral]

Okay let me state this in a way you will understand. While there is no real evidence of god or aliens we can reasonably believe in aliens as we know it is possible for them to exist. But with god we don’t have any pieces of proof saying god could even exist.

You're assuming omni-potency=lack of emotion

Yes, perhaps aliens do not have the same mental/emotional capacity as Homo Sapiens, but there is reasonable evidence to suggest that it is POSSIBLE for aliens to exist. Meanwhile, while I believe in God, some people point to the fact that there is no clear evidence that God exists.

[New Legland]

You're assuming omni-potency=lack of emotion

Please address my arguments instead of some shit about god and emotion which I never brought up.

I think he accidentally quoted the wrong comment.

I believe he meant to quote this:

If God does exist, then His job would be very stressful

God is omnipotent, he cannot suffer from 'stress'.

[Andsed]

Please address my arguments instead of some shit about god and emotion which I never brought up.

I think he accidentally quoted the wrong comment.

I believe he meant to quote this:

God is omnipotent, he cannot suffer from 'stress'.

That makes a lot more sense.

[Australian rePublic]

Please address my arguments instead of some shit about god and emotion which I never brought up.

I think he accidentally quoted the wrong comment.

I believe he meant to quote this:

God is omnipotent, he cannot suffer from 'stress'.

Correct. Sorry about that

[Ausinia]

Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space

Interesting that you ask a question, get at least 5 answers and reply to the one you see fallacies, but hey, I’m not here to judge.

[Dogmeat]

Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space

Here's the thing though:
We try to go into the possibility of alien life in a fairly open ended way. We might have certain expectations about what alien life might be like, or how common it might be, but we are willing to revise those expectations if necessary because we admit that we don't know.

You lot, on the other hand, say that you do know. This is what your god is like, this is what he likes, this is what he hates, and this is what he wants from you (oh, and by the way there's definitely only one of them.)

That's not like saying, "yeah, aliens probably exist." It's like saying, "the Romulan Star Empire is real!"

[Costa Fierro]

I was raised in a non-believing family. My mother was raised as a Methodist, and her family left the church at the behest of my grandfather.

[Ausinia]

Yea, but by your own argument, you can't prove that aliens, and by your own argument lack of evidence is evodence of absense. If that logic doesn't apply to aleins which live in time and space, how does that logic apply to God which exists outside of time and space

Here's the thing though:
We try to go into the possibility of alien life in a fairly open ended way. We might have certain expectations about what alien life might be like, or how common it might be, but we are willing to revise those expectations if necessary because we admit that we don't know.

You lot, on the other hand, say that you do know. This is what your god is like, this is what he likes, this is what he hates, and this is what he wants from you (oh, and by the way there's definitely only one of them.)

That's not like saying, "yeah, aliens probably exist." It's like saying, "the Romulan Star Empire is real!"

Bet if you read my post, I never said that they probably exist, I said that they’re just as likely as humans, a god however is likely do to your belief in one god. One being is is less likely then billions, two beings is really more then twice as Likely as two beings of appropriate sex ca well, ok you get it, but that was never my response of ‘well their likely’.

[Jolthig]

Pardon me, but evidence for aliens? What would that be? I would love to learn.

Okay evidence is the wrong word so let me rephrase. We know that intelligent life can and does exist in the universe because we exist. We also know there are many worlds that have similar conditions to earth so with these two pieces of knowledge we can say it is possible than alien life exist. We cannot say the same for god.

God cannot be found through the physical world by itself. Rather, proof of God comes from divine revelation. Otherwise, if I were to argue for God, then it would be my own opinion on why I think he exists.

[Salandriagado]

It seems like your whole problem with God is that kids get cancer. This is a very, very common argument against the faithand it really doesn't hold any kind of logical water if you think about it.

God created the universe apart from Himself. That means He gave up some level of His complete control in doing so. Cancer is just a thing that occurs in this Universe, which follows Newton's laws. It isn't like God created the whole fucking universe to just make cancer, haha. He created it so that we could exist within it, and then choose Him.

You had a lot more to say, but the only issue with the faith I could really distinguish was this, so, I'm glad to try and offer a refutation to any other theological claims you'd like to make against the Church.

I've said it many times before, and I'll say it a million more, there's no argument against the Catholic faith which can't be refuted.

Agreed. Disease=/=God does not exist

No. But it does imply one of the following:

1. No god exists.
2. There exists an evil god.
3. There exists an unimaginably stupid god.
4. There exists a powerless god.

So, which is it?

[Salandriagado]

The bible is hardly unique. Many fo the stories are based on legends that have long since existed (look at Noahs flood). Second your saying the day was different so it could mean millenia is simply interpretation, it is not what the bible actually says, and so it cannot be said to be scientifically accurate.

There really isn't

Show that something is a god, show that it could not have happened spontaneously.

Point Number 2: Nope. The Bible, in the original Hebrew, uses the word "Yom". "Yom" can apparently mean any number of things , a physical day "24 hours" (the most common translation), an unspecified amount of time, an unspecified consistant length of time, millenia, or anything else, really

And it's still completely wrong, because things are in the wrong order.

[Salandriagado]

All I read in this thread is "cancer, cancer, cancer". Let me tell you a story. I almost died when I was 5 years old (not from cancer, but death is death). I don't even know how I survived this long. In addition to that, and seperate to that, I have a genetic disease called Thallasemia Minor, I have aspberger's syndrome. All of these don't mean that God isn't real. All of these don't mean that God is evil. Just because you don't understand why God does something, it doesn't mean that God is evil. I learnt that the hard way. (And no, before you strawman me, I am NOT saying that cancer is good. We should try to fight cancer as hard as possible, as we are doing, which is an excellent thing). Atheists keep talking about how morality is subjective, and indeed, 200 years ago, it was perfectly considered perfectly acceptable to think that one race was superior to other races, yet we changed our perspective of that, why? (Well, in all honesty, because Hitler took that concept way too far, causing the rest of us to see how idiotic it was.) Up until 200 years ago, slavery was perfectly acceptable, but then we abandoned it, why, I don't know. Now as for cancer, cancer is an evil and horrible thing, I rhink so, you think so and God thinks so. So why does God allow such a horrid thing to exist? I don't know. What I do know however, is that we humans cannot agree on what is good and evil, because we don't have access to the bigger picture, God who has access to the bigger picture, is capable of knowing how to run the universe, and has remained fairly consistant with His morality. Why does God allow cancer? Does He enjoy watch people suffer? No, of coarse not, in fact, it's the opposite, God suffers with them. So why does He allow cancer? I don't know. All I know ia that God is more knowlegable than me. Trying to argue that God is evil for the simple reason that you don't understand His will, is like trying to argue that your mechanic is evil because you don't understand why He changed the motor oil. Trying to argue that God is evil because you don't understand His will, is like trying to argue that your hotel receptionist is evil, because you don't understand why she's charging you for room service, etc.

And, once again, we're at "torturing children to death is A-OK if it's for the greater good".

[Salandriagado]

Both what? Gaining insights and convincing others?

My initial plan was gaining insights, but I can't see why we can't do both- gain insights and convince others

The former would require you to actually think about your beliefs, rather than rejecting all criticism out of hand. The latter would require a rational argument. You've singularly failed to provide either requirement, and so, you will not achieve either objective.

[Salandriagado]

This is kind of silly, since Genesis even defines what it means by day: "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." So we're clearly talking about actual days.

In English

But even if it were true that these are epochs or something, the story still gets the order of everything wrong. With God creating the Earth and plantlife before the sun and stars. So it doesn't matter how long the days are, the story is still clearly wrong.

In English

Fred Hoyle came up with the name as an insult. It's not something scientists are committed to, it just sort of stuck.

My point is that we shouldn't get too caught up o n terminology

Nobody is discussing terminology here. We're discussing if torturing children to death is an evil act.