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Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:09 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I'm not blaming any victim of cancer. What I'm saying is is that God knows how to do His job, but let's roll with your misinterpretation of what I wrote here.


Yes, you literally are. Absolutely and explicitly. If you're blaming the existence of suffering on anybody but your god, and still claiming the existence of that god, you absolutely are victim-blaming.

If you were God, would you kill baby Hitler, knowing that He would grow up and cause the holocaust?


This, this right here? Also victim blaming. Note how you're implying that every child who dies of cancer would otherwise have grown up to do something evil.

And no, no I wouldn't. Because, not being unimaginably stupid, I wouldn't have let the situation get to that point in the first place: I'd either set up the universe such that such things never occurred, or I'd simply tweak which sperm managed to fertilize his mother's egg to fix the problem. Any entity that doesn't do this, apart from being irredeemably evil, is also monumentally stupid, and so is not any kind of god.

I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.
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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Yes, you literally are. Absolutely and explicitly. If you're blaming the existence of suffering on anybody but your god, and still claiming the existence of that god, you absolutely are victim-blaming.



This, this right here? Also victim blaming. Note how you're implying that every child who dies of cancer would otherwise have grown up to do something evil.

And no, no I wouldn't. Because, not being unimaginably stupid, I wouldn't have let the situation get to that point in the first place: I'd either set up the universe such that such things never occurred, or I'd simply tweak which sperm managed to fertilize his mother's egg to fix the problem. Any entity that doesn't do this, apart from being irredeemably evil, is also monumentally stupid, and so is not any kind of god.

I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.


So God seeks to prevent a child from experiencing a great tragedy... by giving them cancer? A tragedy in and of itself?
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:13 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.

That excuse really doesn't wash. There are countless suffering people throughout history that God should have seen fit to kill before they suffered later in life, but didn't. Why? Sounds like complete nonsense to me.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Yes, you literally are. Absolutely and explicitly. If you're blaming the existence of suffering on anybody but your god, and still claiming the existence of that god, you absolutely are victim-blaming.



This, this right here? Also victim blaming. Note how you're implying that every child who dies of cancer would otherwise have grown up to do something evil.

And no, no I wouldn't. Because, not being unimaginably stupid, I wouldn't have let the situation get to that point in the first place: I'd either set up the universe such that such things never occurred, or I'd simply tweak which sperm managed to fertilize his mother's egg to fix the problem. Any entity that doesn't do this, apart from being irredeemably evil, is also monumentally stupid, and so is not any kind of god.

I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life,


More victim blaming. More to the point, if god's going around killing babies who would grow up to be evil, why the fuck didn't he do it to Hitler?

maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.


"Kill them to avoid them being killed later" is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.

That excuse really doesn't wash. There are countless suffering people throughout history that God should have seen fit to kill before they suffered later in life, but didn't. Why?

I don't know. Ask Him
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Valrifell
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:That excuse really doesn't wash. There are countless suffering people throughout history that God should have seen fit to kill before they suffered later in life, but didn't. Why?

I don't know. Ask Him


I did, he didn't respond. Hence the atheism.
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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:19 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:God does not mix metaphors. I can't believe how many times I have to repeat this, but once again, God did NOT write the Bible. The Bible was written by humans, in human language of the humans who lived in that era. Humans wrote the Bible, and humans are NOT infallible

So why didn't god didn't ensure his message was set down perfectly?

Because He didn't send it down. He interacted with people and those people wrote down what their interactions felt like to them
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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:21 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So why didn't god didn't ensure his message was set down perfectly?

Because He didn't send it down. He interacted with people and those people wrote down what their interactions felt like to them

So why didn't god send it down?
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:22 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Because He didn't send it down. He interacted with people and those people wrote down what their interactions felt like to them

So why didn't god send it down?

I don't know. Ask Him...
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian. Date of Birth: 1 October 1995
Why stylised as "rePublic"
16 Published Issues and 1 WA resolution
Please sign my petition to help me achieve justice (real life)
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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:24 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:That excuse really doesn't wash. There are countless suffering people throughout history that God should have seen fit to kill before they suffered later in life, but didn't. Why? Sounds like complete nonsense to me.

I don't know. Ask Him

Tried.

Silence...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:25 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So why didn't god send it down?

I don't know. Ask Him...

Let me add additional things, since you think the bible is inaccurate at best, why do you believe in any part of it, Why are you a Christian?
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:27 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I don't know. Ask Him...

Let me add additional things, since you think the bible is inaccurate at best, why do you believe in any part of it, Why are you a Christian?

I do NOT think it's inaccurate. I never said it was innaccurate. What I said was is that it's difficult to translate it properly
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:29 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.


So God seeks to prevent a child from experiencing a great tragedy... by giving them cancer? A tragedy in and of itself?

I had to burn the village down to keep it from burning down.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:29 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Let me add additional things, since you think the bible is inaccurate at best, why do you believe in any part of it, Why are you a Christian?

I do NOT think it's inaccurate. I never said it was innaccurate. What I said was is that it's difficult to translate it properly

Australian rePublic wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:So why do you even say it?

Besides, the idea of God just straight-out mixing metaphor with face value and covering it in ahistorical data seems fishy.

God does not mix metaphors. I can't believe how many times I have to repeat this, but once again, God did NOT write the Bible. The Bible was written by humans, in human language of the humans who lived in that era. Humans wrote the Bible, and humans are NOT infallible


This says nothing about translation, it talks about being written in human languages based on how people where perceiving god. And the fact that humans are not infallible is an indirect way of saying that they could have written something wrong.
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Frievolk
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Postby Frievolk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
So God seeks to prevent a child from experiencing a great tragedy... by giving them cancer? A tragedy in and of itself?

I had to burn the village down to keep it from burning down.

In order to make sure someone in that village wouldn't burn down the village, I burned the place he lived in down: The Village.
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Dogmeat
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Postby Dogmeat » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 pm

Frievolk wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I had to burn the village down to keep it from burning down.

In order to make sure someone in that village wouldn't burn down the village, I burned the place he lived in down: The Village.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I do NOT think it's inaccurate. I never said it was innaccurate. What I said was is that it's difficult to translate it properly

Australian rePublic wrote:God does not mix metaphors. I can't believe how many times I have to repeat this, but once again, God did NOT write the Bible. The Bible was written by humans, in human language of the humans who lived in that era. Humans wrote the Bible, and humans are NOT infallible


This says nothing about translation, it talks about being written in human languages based on how people where perceiving god. And the fact that humans are not infallible is an indirect way of saying that they could have written something wrong.

No, what I originally said was that reading the Bible in English is not the same as reading it in Ancient Greek/Hebrew, as the meaning of expressions/metaphors is lost in translation, causing us to interpret metaphors literally. That's what I said
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:38 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I do NOT think it's inaccurate. I never said it was innaccurate. What I said was is that it's difficult to translate it properly

Australian rePublic wrote:God does not mix metaphors. I can't believe how many times I have to repeat this, but once again, God did NOT write the Bible. The Bible was written by humans, in human language of the humans who lived in that era. Humans wrote the Bible, and humans are NOT infallible


This says nothing about translation, it talks about being written in human languages based on how people where perceiving god. And the fact that humans are not infallible is an indirect way of saying that they could have written something wrong.

Are there any errors in the Bible? Probably, but if there are, they would be tiny and irrelevant
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:52 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Yes, you literally are. Absolutely and explicitly. If you're blaming the existence of suffering on anybody but your god, and still claiming the existence of that god, you absolutely are victim-blaming.



This, this right here? Also victim blaming. Note how you're implying that every child who dies of cancer would otherwise have grown up to do something evil.

And no, no I wouldn't. Because, not being unimaginably stupid, I wouldn't have let the situation get to that point in the first place: I'd either set up the universe such that such things never occurred, or I'd simply tweak which sperm managed to fertilize his mother's egg to fix the problem. Any entity that doesn't do this, apart from being irredeemably evil, is also monumentally stupid, and so is not any kind of god.

I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.

Or maybe god doesn’t give a shit
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:58 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Are there any errors in the Bible? Probably, but if there are, they would be tiny and irrelevant

Some of the errors are significant and glaring.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:15 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Are there any errors in the Bible? Probably, but if there are, they would be tiny and irrelevant

Some of the errors are significant and glaring.

Some of these contardict themsleves
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:20 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:

Some of these contardict themsleves

Are there any error in the Skeptics Annotated Bible? Probably, but if there are, they would be tiny and irrelevant.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:24 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:

Some of these contardict themsleves

Do they indeed? :roll:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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The World Capitalist Confederation
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Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:27 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Yes, you literally are. Absolutely and explicitly. If you're blaming the existence of suffering on anybody but your god, and still claiming the existence of that god, you absolutely are victim-blaming.



This, this right here? Also victim blaming. Note how you're implying that every child who dies of cancer would otherwise have grown up to do something evil.

And no, no I wouldn't. Because, not being unimaginably stupid, I wouldn't have let the situation get to that point in the first place: I'd either set up the universe such that such things never occurred, or I'd simply tweak which sperm managed to fertilize his mother's egg to fix the problem. Any entity that doesn't do this, apart from being irredeemably evil, is also monumentally stupid, and so is not any kind of god.

I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.

If he was really omnipotent, he could just stop the tragedy and make every human being infinitely happy, remove everything evil and create heaven on Earth. There would be no need for suffering, death, or even being careful. Decadent, yes, but good nonetheless. There's literally one solution that doesn't require you to remove your belief of this magic man: antitheism, or rather, the acknowledgement that he is not benevolent. Although it could be argued that the definition of an omnipotent being makes its existence impossible, and more importantly, why would it allow people not to believe it? By that I mean give people the very possibility of not believing it.

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Normund
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Postby Normund » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:07 pm

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I never said it was that the baby was going to grow up evil. Sure, that might be one reason, but it wouldn't be the only reason. (And even then, it would probably be for the vast minority of babies) Maybe God thinks the child will be too weak to handle life, maybe God knows that the innocent baby will be the victim of a tragedy that God wishes to prevent, maybe... any number of things could fall into this catagory.

If he was really omnipotent, he could just stop the tragedy and make every human being infinitely happy, remove everything evil and create heaven on Earth. There would be no need for suffering, death, or even being careful. Decadent, yes, but good nonetheless. There's literally one solution that doesn't require you to remove your belief of this magic man: antitheism, or rather, the acknowledgement that he is not benevolent. Although it could be argued that the definition of an omnipotent being makes its existence impossible, and more importantly, why would it allow people not to believe it? By that I mean give people the very possibility of not believing it.

Actually, "antitheism" just means one is opposed to religion as a whole - real or not. What you’re thinking of is "misotheism", which is literally hated of a deity.
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