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Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Jakker
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Postby Jakker » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:34 am

Havarland wrote:Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.


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Salandriagado
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:37 am

Saranidia wrote:I believe in a creator due to:
The kalam cosmological argument


Hilariously wrong in every regard.

The fact that if the laws of physics were slightly different humanity would never be able to exist.


Irrelevant.

The Fibonacci sequence in nature.


Basically doesn't exist.

The trademark argument


Bullshit.

The laws of mathematics and logic


Made by humans.

The ontological argument(although I could be unsure about it as it seems telekinetic


Also bullshit.

I think the trademark argument ties in nicely with it to explain it)
Amongst others


Got any that aren't utter bullshit?
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Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:38 am

Forestavia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
That's utterly irrelevant to the question. The children very clearly haven't consented to the torture, so torturing them is still evil, even if you're some kind of collective mind that includes them in some way.


It's 100% relevant. The issue of separation is the number one most relevant question anyone can ask themselves when it comes to the God question. Those children are not being tortured by God. Those children are God itself. Everything is one. The Creator and the Creation are one and the same. This shift in perspective contains the key to personal happiness in this life. Have you ever met someone who has suffered a lot but that person, somehow, is still relatively happy? To have peace with that thing we call "God" IS to have peace with suffering. Peace with suffering is surrender. Surrender is the end of suffering. I would much rather see a happy child die from cancer than a miserable adult. In Matthew 19, Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belongs to children. It does. Children are better at suffering than we are as adults. There are a lot of things that children can teach us about life. If we're willing to listen.


No it isn't. The separation is irrelevant: it's easily seen that these children suffer. Causing suffering is evil, whether you're "connected" or not. Nobody dies of cancer happy. You continue to be making excuses for torturing fucking children.
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Eglaecia
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Postby Eglaecia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:44 am

I find it unlikely for there not to be a God. While it will be impossible for us to prove his existence through natural means, that doesn't mean we can't assume it through simple reason. I like Aquinas' first cause argument a lot, it's something I've came to agree with so much and has changed my way of thinking a lot.
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Havarland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Havarland » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:01 am

Before Christianity there was Paganism
Before Islam there was Judaism.

Religions were created to control the masses. Nowadays everybody makes up their own God and believes and quotes The Bible however they want.
You can quote The Bible to a person that's a Christian-feminist and suddenly she's like - NO, NO, NOT TRUE. GOD NEVER PUNISHED WOMEN NOR TREATED WOMEN BADLY.
Even though in the beginning of The Bible the Bible tells how the God punished women for making giving birth painful, for giving women periods etc…
The same goes out for Koran and I'M NOT TROLLING. This is honestly my opinion to tell you why I don't believe in God.

There are billions of planets out there and there are many Earth like planets where there is water and there might be life as well. If you want to be grateful for life, you can thank the Universe for that. You can thank the Sun, the Moon and everything.

Being very religious isn't healthy to ones mind. Most people believe in God because of death. We're all afraid of the death yet we never think that the death is exactly the same as life a year before we were born.
We simply didn't exist. I don't think God exists or as we know it. Nowadays there's scientistic proof to everything.

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Salandriagado
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Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:29 am

Eglaecia wrote:I find it unlikely for there not to be a God. While it will be impossible for us to prove his existence through natural means, that doesn't mean we can't assume it through simple reason. I like Aquinas' first cause argument a lot, it's something I've came to agree with so much and has changed my way of thinking a lot.

Yes, actually, it does: asserting the literal existence of something is not a statement that can be proved by pure reason (essentially because it's not a statement of mathematics or formal logic).
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:41 am

The Galactic Supremacy wrote:
Havarland wrote:
Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.

The claims you have made are relative to the Muslims you've met. They do not represent the majority nor even Islamic ideals

They do represent the views of a significant portion of muslims living in Europe.
Which ofc is also partly Europes own fault - when the Netherlands for instance invited muslims over they explicitly asked for the poor, the uneducated and the failures so they could feel all christian and charitable about getting relatively cheap labour. It is not surprising that they mostly got what they wanted.
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 am

Havarland wrote:Before Christianity there was Paganism
Before Islam there was Judaism.



Gonna have to suggest you do some reading on the history of religions. The abrahamic religions come from Judaism. Paganism were native religions the Christians assimilated a long time ago.
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 am

In a general sense, because I was raised in an irreligious family. In a logical sense, the Riddle of Epicurus and determinism.
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Havarland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Havarland » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:03 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Havarland wrote:Before Christianity there was Paganism
Before Islam there was Judaism.



Gonna have to suggest you do some reading on the history of religions. The abrahamic religions come from Judaism. Paganism were native religions the Christians assimilated a long time ago.


I've done some reading.:)
Didn't have to put everything in such order. I wrote it to prove my point.
Last edited by Havarland on Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Havarland
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Postby Havarland » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:08 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Galactic Supremacy wrote:The claims you have made are relative to the Muslims you've met. They do not represent the majority nor even Islamic ideals

They do represent the views of a significant portion of muslims living in Europe.
Which ofc is also partly Europes own fault - when the Netherlands for instance invited muslims over they explicitly asked for the poor, the uneducated and the failures so they could feel all christian and charitable about getting relatively cheap labour. It is not surprising that they mostly got what they wanted.


Thank you for supporting me and understanding me. There was a time period when I was all for the refugees and supported them, but recently I've heard some of the Muslim refugees even mock my family, when I've told them about my great grandmother during the war time. For example the fact that she had to eat other people (as well as others had to) during the Second World War and they just mock and laugh and be like "I'd rather die".
Everybody supports & loves Islam. You have an Israeli flag? You're a racist all the sudden etc… Cross on the Swedish flag is offensive and my previous school stopped celebrating Christmas, because it might be offensive to Muslims. Is that normal?

Because of those reasons, while being an Atheist, I've read the Bible and I go to church on Sundays to support Christians. While I don't agree with Christians either I still support them, because currently they're facing oppression.

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Jarian
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Postby Jarian » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:12 am

Kyoki Chudoku wrote:I am personally irreligious. I disbelieve in any deity because I quite simply have no reason to believe in their existence. If there is a deity, I suspect it is not any we have postulated in all of human history, and I believe that their wishes would impart themselves on us all by being rules of the universe’s mechanisms. Humanity has postulated the existence of deities countless times, in countless different ways. To me, this demonstrates a variety of ways to examine the issue- some of which have been proven totally wrong, others of which have been proven wrong to a great extent, forcing interpretations to be altered to satisfy reality. Basically, I see no reason why there would be one, and so, do not believe in one.

Agreed. I would like to add that even if any higher beings exist that we would be like ants, or even lower. And if we do have 'gods', then perhaps they too have 'gods'.
But just as most of us take little interest in ants and simpler life forms, any 'gods' are unlikely to take much interest in us. In fact, our universe could simply be the equivalent of a 5 year-old's science project.
I cannot say if there are higher beings, but if they do exist... they aren't saying either.
As for 'holy' books, they do not resemble their original texts at all.
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Forestavia
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Postby Forestavia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:16 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Forestavia wrote:It's 100% relevant. The issue of separation is the number one most relevant question anyone can ask themselves when it comes to the God question. Those children are not being tortured by God. Those children are God itself. Everything is one. The Creator and the Creation are one and the same. This shift in perspective contains the key to personal happiness in this life. Have you ever met someone who has suffered a lot but that person, somehow, is still relatively happy? To have peace with that thing we call "God" IS to have peace with suffering. Peace with suffering is surrender. Surrender is the end of suffering. I would much rather see a happy child die from cancer than a miserable adult. In Matthew 19, Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belongs to children. It does. Children are better at suffering than we are as adults. There are a lot of things that children can teach us about life. If we're willing to listen.

God has always been written as separate from humanity. You're gonna have to find some biblical support for this. I mean, the entire point of jesus was to create a bridge from our sinful nature to God. By sinning, we separated this world from God according to the bible. He only accepts believers back into his fold.


Technically you don't need Biblical support. This is something that you can verify for yourself without the use of any scripture or any worldview. This is so easy that I missed it for two decades. I was a spiritual seeker for a long time. I used to call myself a Christian. I used to call myself a panentheist. I explored Buddhism, New Age, Pantheism, and Deism. But after I "experienced" the oneness for myself I dropped all the labels. The word "experience" doesn't really do it justice.

Viewing God as separate from humanity is the original sin. Buying into the illusion of separation is the epitome of missing the mark. Jesus tried to create a bridge to God. He was successful for those who had ears to hear. But most people, even his own followers, had a hard time understanding the message. Our sinful nature happens to be this human tendency to view things as inherently separate. If we view things as interconnected and interdependent - if we view things as one, then we won't miss the mark. Jesus even said, "I and the Father are one." With the truth, we will be free to walk across that bridge. We can't get across that bridge until we realize first that there is an illusion of separation and secondly, where the illusion of separation comes from. The illusion of separation comes from pride. Pride is the source of the illusion. Pride is a false sense of self. This path is narrow. Jesus was not joking at all. And yet, the kingdom of heaven is the most accessible thing in the universe. But the catch is you can't go through that narrow gate and bring all your stuff with you! However, if we get rid of pride all that remains is divine love. And we can render the bridge irrelevant because we will see that the kingdom of heaven is already here with us. Our pride is the only thing keeping us from seeing the truth.

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The Plantain Republic
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Postby The Plantain Republic » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 am

I believe in a Higher Power, yeah, but not exactly in God. I can’t explain exactly why not God in particular. But how I came into believing in something lording over the universe is easy to explain, and it’s all because of a crazy little thing called Pascal’s Wager. It’s a really interesting concept and a big part of theological philosophy, but it’s not exactly typically described in layman’s terms. There’s a Wikipedia page on it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

Here’s a quick rundown as a TL;DR- If there is no such thing as a deity that allows us into the Afterlife, literally all that happens is we die. Nothing goes on afterwards, no eternal reward, nothing, zip, nada. But if there is something out there judging where we go, then obviously we’re gonna wanna head to the best place they offer. Worship is either beneficial, or it’s pointless (but unusually rewarding and sometimes cathartic), and, ultimately, the chance of suffering forever until the heat death of our Universe just ain’t worth it.

So, as an agnostic, I don’t namedrop saints, or pray facing East, or regularly attend the local delicatessen, but I’ve got my eyes open for any sign of a Higher Power so I can be sure I’ll be somewhere that’s at least not a pit of fire when I hurtle towards my inevitable bodily destruction. I’m hoping that Dante was right, and I’ll turn up somewhere in the “noble-savage-type pagan warrior princess who was too late getting that final prayer in” section.
Last edited by The Plantain Republic on Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 am

Havarland wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:

Gonna have to suggest you do some reading on the history of religions. The abrahamic religions come from Judaism. Paganism were native religions the Christians assimilated a long time ago.


I've done some reading.:)
Didn't have to put everything in such order. I wrote it to prove my point.

Factually incorrect information doesnt help do that.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:19 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Havarland wrote:
I've done some reading.:)
Didn't have to put everything in such order. I wrote it to prove my point.

Factually incorrect information doesnt help do that.


Well, it is not incorrect. Christianity is a rather hard break from Judaism - Islam is much closer.
And all grew in pagan areas - Egypt, Rome, Mecca...
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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:19 am

Forestavia wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:God has always been written as separate from humanity. You're gonna have to find some biblical support for this. I mean, the entire point of jesus was to create a bridge from our sinful nature to God. By sinning, we separated this world from God according to the bible. He only accepts believers back into his fold.


Technically you don't need Biblical support. This is something that you can verify for yourself without the use of any scripture or any worldview. This is so easy that I missed it for two decades. I was a spiritual seeker for a long time. I used to call myself a Christian. I used to call myself a panentheist. I explored Buddhism, New Age, Pantheism, and Deism. But after I "experienced" the oneness for myself I dropped all the labels. The word "experience" doesn't really do it justice.

Viewing God as separate from humanity is the original sin. Buying into the illusion of separation is the epitome of missing the mark. Jesus tried to create a bridge to God. He was successful for those who had ears to hear. But most people, even his own followers, had a hard time understanding the message. Our sinful nature happens to be this human tendency to view things as inherently separate. If we view things as interconnected and interdependent - if we view things as one, then we won't miss the mark. Jesus even said, "I and the Father are one." With the truth, we will be free to walk across that bridge. We can't get across that bridge until we realize first that there is an illusion of separation and secondly, where the illusion of separation comes from. The illusion of separation comes from pride. Pride is the source of the illusion. Pride is a false sense of self. This path is narrow. Jesus was not joking at all. And yet, the kingdom of heaven is the most accessible thing in the universe. But the catch is you can't go through that narrow gate and bring all your stuff with you! However, if we get rid of pride all that remains is divine love. And we can render the bridge irrelevant because we will see that the kingdom of heaven is already here with us. Our pride is the only thing keeping us from seeing the truth.

Ah, you're just ignoring parts of the bible that explicitly state the separation, then. But it also sounds like you're not Christian either, so that helps explain it.

I also think you are severely misunderstanding the nature of the Trinity.
Last edited by Thuzbekistan on Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Forestavia
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Postby Forestavia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:27 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Forestavia wrote:It's 100% relevant. The issue of separation is the number one most relevant question anyone can ask themselves when it comes to the God question. Those children are not being tortured by God. Those children are God itself. Everything is one. The Creator and the Creation are one and the same. This shift in perspective contains the key to personal happiness in this life. Have you ever met someone who has suffered a lot but that person, somehow, is still relatively happy? To have peace with that thing we call "God" IS to have peace with suffering. Peace with suffering is surrender. Surrender is the end of suffering. I would much rather see a happy child die from cancer than a miserable adult. In Matthew 19, Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belongs to children. It does. Children are better at suffering than we are as adults. There are a lot of things that children can teach us about life. If we're willing to listen.


No it isn't. The separation is irrelevant: it's easily seen that these children suffer. Causing suffering is evil, whether you're "connected" or not. Nobody dies of cancer happy. You continue to be making excuses for torturing fucking children.


Okay, I'm gonna try this a different way. Suffering is one of the few things that unites all of mankind. Every human being understands, knows, experiences, and feels suffering at some point in life, in some way, shape, or form.
Why do you think suffering is such a bad thing?

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Frievolk
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Postby Frievolk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:36 am

Forestavia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
No it isn't. The separation is irrelevant: it's easily seen that these children suffer. Causing suffering is evil, whether you're "connected" or not. Nobody dies of cancer happy. You continue to be making excuses for torturing fucking children.


Okay, I'm gonna try this a different way. Suffering is one of the few things that unites all of mankind. Every human being understands, knows, experiences, and feels suffering at some point in life, in some way, shape, or form.
Why do you think suffering is such a bad thing?
... Because it's suffering. I don't need a deep philosophical reason to rationalize "things that make my life hard are inherently bad [for me]."
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Forestavia
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Postby Forestavia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:11 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:
Forestavia wrote:
Technically you don't need Biblical support. This is something that you can verify for yourself without the use of any scripture or any worldview. This is so easy that I missed it for two decades. I was a spiritual seeker for a long time. I used to call myself a Christian. I used to call myself a panentheist. I explored Buddhism, New Age, Pantheism, and Deism. But after I "experienced" the oneness for myself I dropped all the labels. The word "experience" doesn't really do it justice.

Viewing God as separate from humanity is the original sin. Buying into the illusion of separation is the epitome of missing the mark. Jesus tried to create a bridge to God. He was successful for those who had ears to hear. But most people, even his own followers, had a hard time understanding the message. Our sinful nature happens to be this human tendency to view things as inherently separate. If we view things as interconnected and interdependent - if we view things as one, then we won't miss the mark. Jesus even said, "I and the Father are one." With the truth, we will be free to walk across that bridge. We can't get across that bridge until we realize first that there is an illusion of separation and secondly, where the illusion of separation comes from. The illusion of separation comes from pride. Pride is the source of the illusion. Pride is a false sense of self. This path is narrow. Jesus was not joking at all. And yet, the kingdom of heaven is the most accessible thing in the universe. But the catch is you can't go through that narrow gate and bring all your stuff with you! However, if we get rid of pride all that remains is divine love. And we can render the bridge irrelevant because we will see that the kingdom of heaven is already here with us. Our pride is the only thing keeping us from seeing the truth.

Ah, you're just ignoring parts of the bible that explicitly state the separation, then. But it also sounds like you're not Christian either, so that helps explain it.

I also think you are severely misunderstanding the nature of the Trinity.


I don't call myself anything anymore. God is huge. God is much bigger than me or the Christian worldview, or any worldview for that matter. My understanding of the Trinity is that it is a form of idolatry (Exodus 20). We are not to create a graven image of God. It doesn't matter whether the image is a form in our minds or whether it is a carving in wood. The Trinity is a Father, Son, Holy Spirit concept. A concept is a thought with form. So the Holy Trinity has created a stumbling block for many Christians because they are expected to hold onto a graven image of God in their minds. As Lao Tzu has written, "The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao." The ancient Jews didn't even want to write the name of God on a piece of paper. We went from an attitude of sanctifying the very name of God thousands of years ago to a Trinitarian graven image concept in the 21st century.

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Forestavia
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Postby Forestavia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:34 am

Frievolk wrote:
Forestavia wrote:Okay, I'm gonna try this a different way. Suffering is one of the few things that unites all of mankind. Every human being understands, knows, experiences, and feels suffering at some point in life, in some way, shape, or form.
Why do you think suffering is such a bad thing?
... Because it's suffering. I don't need a deep philosophical reason to rationalize "things that make my life hard are inherently bad [for me]."

It's true that emotional pain and physical pain don't feel good. But suffering is at the core of our experience on earth. The truth is we can't escape suffering. So we have a choice:
1. Judge suffering as "bad" and resist it and thus view ourselves as victims of circumstance or victims of God.
or
2. Embrace suffering nonjudgmentally as part of who we are so that we see hardship as a challenge to overcome.

I recommend #2. This is easier said than done. I've suffered too but the suffering that I've gone through has helped me immensely. It has helped me to grow and develop in ways that I never could have imagined otherwise. And it's weird how this works but somehow I've noticed that the burden of suffering continues to diminish. The semantics is going to sound a little odd here but I am noticing more and more that I can experience pain without suffering from the pain. I can experience difficult emotions without suffering from those emotions. What I'm trying to say is that there is a sense that suffering is ending but to end suffering you have to make peace with suffering. Surrender is the only way to transform suffering from an enemy into an ally. To summarize, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

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Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11893
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:37 am

Esternial wrote:
British Tackeettlaus wrote:I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih.

Well if you like him, you can support him on Patreon now.

Elaborate?
В каком автобусе вы живете? А почему?
she/her
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3368
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Frievolk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:38 am

Forestavia wrote:
Frievolk wrote:... Because it's suffering. I don't need a deep philosophical reason to rationalize "things that make my life hard are inherently bad [for me]."

It's true that emotional pain and physical pain don't feel good. But suffering is at the core of our experience on earth. The truth is we can't escape suffering. So we have a choice:
1. Judge suffering as "bad" and resist it and thus view ourselves as victims of circumstance or victims of God.
or
2. Embrace suffering nonjudgmentally as part of who we are so that we see hardship as a challenge to overcome.

I recommend #2. This is easier said than done. I've suffered too but the suffering that I've gone through has helped me immensely. It has helped me to grow and develop in ways that I never could have imagined otherwise. And it's weird how this works but somehow I've noticed that the burden of suffering continues to diminish. The semantics is going to sound a little odd here but I am noticing more and more that I can experience pain without suffering from the pain. I can experience difficult emotions without suffering from those emotions. What I'm trying to say is that there is a sense that suffering is ending but to end suffering you have to make peace with suffering. Surrender is the only way to transform suffering from an enemy into an ally. To summarize, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

No. If you accept the existence of a god, then your suffering is inherently his fault. Either by criminal-level negligence (The type that would probably land you to jail if you did to your pets, much less """""'''''children'''''""""" -adopted or otherwise), or by intentional action.
Your recommended view is classical abuse victim mentality, "If my abuser torments me, it must be my fault/there's nothing I can do/they might know better". It's that supposedly existing god's fault, and only his. If god exists, he should be scorned and hated, not worshiped.
Last edited by Frievolk on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn.

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Forestavia
Envoy
 
Posts: 220
Founded: Oct 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Forestavia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:03 am

Frievolk wrote:No. If you accept the existence of a god, then your suffering is inherently his fault. Either by criminal-level negligence (The type that would probably land you to jail if you did to your pets, much less """""'''''children'''''""""" -adopted or otherwise), or by intentional action.
Your recommended view is classical abuse victim mentality, "If my abuser torments me, it must be my fault/there's nothing I can do/they might know better". It's that supposedly existing god's fault, and only his. If god exists, he should be scorned and hated, not worshiped.


The only thing I can really claim about God is that God is one because that's what I know for sure. I'm not in a position to argue for God's existence or God's nonexistence. The funny thing is when an atheist claims that God does not exist, it's kind of true. God does not exist the way we think God does. When a theist claims that God is omnipresent, it's kind of true. God is everywhere at the same time. This is really beyond the powers of language because somehow God is SO complete that God transcends existence itself. God is even above nonexistence. I don't know how this works. I don't know why it works. All I know is things are happening all around me. Life is happening.

There is no victim mentality. There is no abuse. There is only love. Again, you're viewing God as separate from us. You're judging God as being evil because you are judging suffering as evil. Suffering does not have to be evil. You have the power to free yourself from that belief. You have to power to view and experience suffering just as it is. Suffering is not separate from you, suffering is part of who you are. You can accept it or you fight it.

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Salandriagado
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19298
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:05 am

Forestavia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
No it isn't. The separation is irrelevant: it's easily seen that these children suffer. Causing suffering is evil, whether you're "connected" or not. Nobody dies of cancer happy. You continue to be making excuses for torturing fucking children.


Okay, I'm gonna try this a different way. Suffering is one of the few things that unites all of mankind. Every human being understands, knows, experiences, and feels suffering at some point in life, in some way, shape, or form.
Why do you think suffering is such a bad thing?


For the same reason that all suffering is a bad thing. I remind you, again, that you're literally defending torturing children.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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