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Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Dogmeat
Minister
 
Posts: 2179
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:07 pm

The Free Panama Commune wrote:Here are my reasons for Belief in God (Ironically my nation is Atheist) :

-The bible is too unique to have been made up, although it can be interpreted to be aligned with scientific fact. For example, the bible says that the world was created in 6 days and on the 7th day God rested. Our vision of a 24 hour day could be a lot different than those who actually wrote those accounts. Those "days" could be a multiple millenniums.

-There is tons of archaeological proof of a prophet who came to save sinners

-It is not possible for the universe to spontaneously explode through the "Big Bang" without something triggering it

Dude, Kali dances the world to death.

The Bible is bland.

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Forestavia
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Oct 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Forestavia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:34 pm

Salandriagado wrote:That's not an answer. That's a cop out. Good and evil are descriptions of actions. Entities are evil if they intentionally perform evil actions. Causing childhood cancer is evil. If you claim that your god (a) is omniscient; and (b) created the universe, then your god necessarily intentionally created childhood cancer. Thus, your god, if your claims are true, is evil.

So what if the consciousness of God decides to experience life through the eyes of a child cancer patient! Why should we judge God for this?


Because torturing children so you can experience something is evil. Any entity that does so is evil, and given that he's supposed to be unchanging, irredeemably evil. Thus, if your god exists, we absolutely should not worship it, and should instead devote all of our efforts to figuring out how to kill it, or at least prevent it from influencing the universe.


I thought it was a cop out too, up until a number of weeks ago. I'm not asking you to believe me. In fact, I'd rather you don't believe me because then you'll have more motivation to verify this for yourself. (You do have that power.)

God doesn't torture people. God doesn't have any wants, needs, or desires. God is love. God is love itself. (No! Not human love!) Unconditional love. Love devoid of any motive, goal, or expectation. This kind of love is beyond human comprehension. (The only reason why I'm even sharing this is because God provided the grace for me to "experience" a tiny piece of it.) It's absolute acceptance of everything life has to offer. Everything. Yes, including situations like children with cancer. I prefer to look at suffering as an opportunity for us to love ourselves and each other. If you look at suffering this way, then there's nothing evil about it. Even something as heartbreaking as childhood cancer can become a beautiful opportunity to practice love on the earthly plane.

As a side note, I don't think God cares if we worship It or not. But I do think the practice of gratitude is an act of worship by default and I think gratitude is beneficial for everyone to practice, whether they are religious or not.

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Salandriagado
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17578
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Forestavia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:That's not an answer. That's a cop out. Good and evil are descriptions of actions. Entities are evil if they intentionally perform evil actions. Causing childhood cancer is evil. If you claim that your god (a) is omniscient; and (b) created the universe, then your god necessarily intentionally created childhood cancer. Thus, your god, if your claims are true, is evil.



Because torturing children so you can experience something is evil. Any entity that does so is evil, and given that he's supposed to be unchanging, irredeemably evil. Thus, if your god exists, we absolutely should not worship it, and should instead devote all of our efforts to figuring out how to kill it, or at least prevent it from influencing the universe.


I thought it was a cop out too, up until a number of weeks ago. I'm not asking you to believe me. In fact, I'd rather you don't believe me because then you'll have more motivation to verify this for yourself. (You do have that power.)

God doesn't torture people. God doesn't have any wants, needs, or desires. God is love. God is love itself. (No! Not human love!) Unconditional love. Love devoid of any motive, goal, or expectation. This kind of love is beyond human comprehension. (The only reason why I'm even sharing this is because God provided the grace for me to "experience" a tiny piece of it.) It's absolute acceptance of everything life has to offer. Everything. Yes, including situations like children with cancer. I prefer to look at suffering as an opportunity for us to love ourselves and each other. If you look at suffering this way, then there's nothing evil about it. Even something as heartbreaking as childhood cancer can become a beautiful opportunity to practice love on the earthly plane.

As a side note, I don't think God cares if we worship It or not. But I do think the practice of gratitude is an act of worship by default and I think gratitude is beneficial for everyone to practice, whether they are religious or not.


Either your god created the universe, in which case it is absolutely responsible for all suffering, or it's a vague bullshit concept, in which case it (a) doesn't exist, and (b) isn't a god.

Even something as heartbreaking as childhood cancer can become a beautiful opportunity to practice love on the earthly plane.


Nope, this is still "torturing children is OK if it's for the greater good", which is still evil.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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The Nordican Islands
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Dec 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Nordican Islands » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:47 pm

I believe in a science + god hybrid I believe the scientist way of thinking and I believe a god is the reason for those things I might name it like Scientlic or something stupid

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Forestavia
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Oct 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Forestavia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:56 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Forestavia wrote:I thought it was a cop out too, up until a number of weeks ago. I'm not asking you to believe me. In fact, I'd rather you don't believe me because then you'll have more motivation to verify this for yourself. (You do have that power.)

God doesn't torture people. God doesn't have any wants, needs, or desires. God is love. God is love itself. (No! Not human love!) Unconditional love. Love devoid of any motive, goal, or expectation. This kind of love is beyond human comprehension. (The only reason why I'm even sharing this is because God provided the grace for me to "experience" a tiny piece of it.) It's absolute acceptance of everything life has to offer. Everything. Yes, including situations like children with cancer. I prefer to look at suffering as an opportunity for us to love ourselves and each other. If you look at suffering this way, then there's nothing evil about it. Even something as heartbreaking as childhood cancer can become a beautiful opportunity to practice love on the earthly plane.

As a side note, I don't think God cares if we worship It or not. But I do think the practice of gratitude is an act of worship by default and I think gratitude is beneficial for everyone to practice, whether they are religious or not.


Either your god created the universe, in which case it is absolutely responsible for all suffering, or it's a vague bullshit concept, in which case it (a) doesn't exist, and (b) isn't a god.

Even something as heartbreaking as childhood cancer can become a beautiful opportunity to practice love on the earthly plane.


Nope, this is still "torturing children is OK if it's for the greater good", which is still evil.


Why are you viewing God as separate from these children? That's quite an assumption. That assumption tells me that you believe in a God removed from humanity.

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Woudlora
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Posts: 17
Founded: Dec 31, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Woudlora » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:58 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
The Free Panama Commune wrote:Here are my reasons for Belief in God (Ironically my nation is Atheist) :

-The bible is too unique to have been made up, although it can be interpreted to be aligned with scientific fact. For example, the bible says that the world was created in 6 days and on the 7th day God rested. Our vision of a 24 hour day could be a lot different than those who actually wrote those accounts. Those "days" could be a multiple millenniums.

-There is tons of archaeological proof of a prophet who came to save sinners

-It is not possible for the universe to spontaneously explode through the "Big Bang" without something triggering it

Dude, Kali dances the world to death.

The Bible is bland.

The Bible is hardly bland! The Vedas and Rigvedas are interesting, I'll give you that, but have you read the part where Samuel tells Saul he needs to wipe out an entire race of people? I wouldn't call that boring.
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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:44 am

Dogmeat wrote:
The Free Panama Commune wrote:Here are my reasons for Belief in God (Ironically my nation is Atheist) :

-The bible is too unique to have been made up, although it can be interpreted to be aligned with scientific fact. For example, the bible says that the world was created in 6 days and on the 7th day God rested. Our vision of a 24 hour day could be a lot different than those who actually wrote those accounts. Those "days" could be a multiple millenniums.

-There is tons of archaeological proof of a prophet who came to save sinners

-It is not possible for the universe to spontaneously explode through the "Big Bang" without something triggering it

Dude, Kali dances the world to death.

The Bible is bland.


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The Alma Mater
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Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:47 am

Woudlora wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Dude, Kali dances the world to death.

The Bible is bland.

The Bible is hardly bland! The Vedas and Rigvedas are interesting, I'll give you that, but have you read the part where Samuel tells Saul he needs to wipe out an entire race of people? I wouldn't call that boring.


The Bible is mostly a rehash and retelling of already existing stories. Similar to Ovids metamorphoses or Grimms fairytales.
While entertaining, chances are you read it all before.
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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:51 am

Also, no, compared to other holy works, the Bible is indeed pretty fuckin' boring, the New Testament especially.

Jesus is a pretty good waifu I guess.

Could have used a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure crossover.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

Tracking | History | Factbook | Dharma
Economic Report | Regional Forum | Political Compass
CAPINTERN | OMSA | OZZY | PACT | APAC
Summary | Vanguard | The Book Of Sue
THE BILLION BIT BRONY
AHAHAHAHA PONY PONY PONY PONYYY


LOVEWHOYOUARE~


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Havarland
Envoy
 
Posts: 201
Founded: Nov 24, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Havarland » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 am

I'm an atheist personally, but the declining population of Christians worry me, since there will be more Muslims that are very radical and obsessed with their religion.

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Page
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Posts: 9377
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:14 am

Havarland wrote:I'm an atheist personally, but the declining population of Christians worry me, since there will be more Muslims that are very radical and obsessed with their religion.


I don't see what fewer Christians has to do with more Muslims.
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Havarland
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Founded: Nov 24, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Havarland » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:16 am

Page wrote:
Havarland wrote:I'm an atheist personally, but the declining population of Christians worry me, since there will be more Muslims that are very radical and obsessed with their religion.


I don't see what fewer Christians has to do with more Muslims.

Christianity will die eventually and ISIS like Muslims will take over.

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The Galactic Supremacy
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Posts: 64
Founded: Mar 20, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Supremacy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:29 am

Havarland wrote:
Page wrote:
I don't see what fewer Christians has to do with more Muslims.

Christianity will die eventually and ISIS like Muslims will take over.

Barely any educated Muslims, trained in the recitation and interpretative sciences of the Quran, or in any of the secular sciences, would support ISIS or those like them. The Prophet Muhammad would call these groups: Khawarij. The Khawarij were an ancient offshoot sect from Islam who were absolutely violent in their actions, and committed takfir; the calling of other Muslims who disagree with them as Non-Muslims.

I doubt you could back the claim that more Muslims means more terrorists, with statistical evidence for it. Regardless of such, terrorists are defined to be persons who use unlawful violence for political gain. Such could encompass any fanatic politico-religious group.
Last edited by The Galactic Supremacy on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Islamic Caliphate of The Human Republic
A nation founded purely on Islam, dedicated to the uplifting of the righteous individual, and the formation of a moral, free, and intellectual society.
A federation of various states and territories, differing in levels of autonomy, organized as a caliphate, in a republican model, spanning the Local Group.
A 4.3 civilization, according to this index.

"Almost a libertarian."
9Axes
Pro: Free Speech, Islam, Capitalism, Property Rights, Republicanism, Traditional Family Values, Pro-Life, Gun Rights,
Neutral: Palestine, Busting Monopolies
Anti: Blasphemy Laws, Minimum Wage, Corporatism, Socialism, Unlawful Sex, Wahhabism, Progressivism

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Salandriagado
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Posts: 17578
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:33 am

Forestavia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Either your god created the universe, in which case it is absolutely responsible for all suffering, or it's a vague bullshit concept, in which case it (a) doesn't exist, and (b) isn't a god.



Nope, this is still "torturing children is OK if it's for the greater good", which is still evil.


Why are you viewing God as separate from these children? That's quite an assumption. That assumption tells me that you believe in a God removed from humanity.


That's utterly irrelevant to the question. The children very clearly haven't consented to the torture, so torturing them is still evil, even if you're some kind of collective mind that includes them in some way.
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Havarland
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Posts: 201
Founded: Nov 24, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Havarland » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:38 am

The Galactic Supremacy wrote:
Havarland wrote:Christianity will die eventually and ISIS like Muslims will take over.

Barely any educated Muslims, trained in the recitation and interpretative sciences of the Quran, or in any of the secular sciences, would support ISIS or those like them. The Prophet Muhammad would call these groups: Khawarij. The Khawarij were an ancient offshoot sect from Islam who were absolutely violent in their actions, and committed takfir; the calling of other Muslims who disagree with them as Non-Muslims.

I doubt you could back the claim that more Muslims means more terrorists, with statistical evidence for it. Regardless of such, terrorists are defined to be persons who use unlawful violence for political gain. Such could encompass any fanatic politico-religious group.


Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.

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The Galactic Supremacy
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Founded: Mar 20, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Supremacy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:51 am

Havarland wrote:
The Galactic Supremacy wrote:Barely any educated Muslims, trained in the recitation and interpretative sciences of the Quran, or in any of the secular sciences, would support ISIS or those like them. The Prophet Muhammad would call these groups: Khawarij. The Khawarij were an ancient offshoot sect from Islam who were absolutely violent in their actions, and committed takfir; the calling of other Muslims who disagree with them as Non-Muslims.

I doubt you could back the claim that more Muslims means more terrorists, with statistical evidence for it. Regardless of such, terrorists are defined to be persons who use unlawful violence for political gain. Such could encompass any fanatic politico-religious group.


Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.

The claims you have made are relative to the Muslims you've met. They do not represent the majority nor even Islamic ideals; the Prophet Muhammad never exemplified the act of being "egoistic, uneducated, short-tempered" or "racist". The claims you have made are also cherry-picked from the garden of bad Muslims. It's hard to see how one could classify a group of people collectively by any means, from personal experiences or horrid happenings, in a rational way to represent the entire group. In the end, it all comes down to the individual's character and piety. I can respect your position regarding Islam if these were what you experienced. May peace and God's blessings be upon you.
Last edited by The Galactic Supremacy on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Islamic Caliphate of The Human Republic
A nation founded purely on Islam, dedicated to the uplifting of the righteous individual, and the formation of a moral, free, and intellectual society.
A federation of various states and territories, differing in levels of autonomy, organized as a caliphate, in a republican model, spanning the Local Group.
A 4.3 civilization, according to this index.

"Almost a libertarian."
9Axes
Pro: Free Speech, Islam, Capitalism, Property Rights, Republicanism, Traditional Family Values, Pro-Life, Gun Rights,
Neutral: Palestine, Busting Monopolies
Anti: Blasphemy Laws, Minimum Wage, Corporatism, Socialism, Unlawful Sex, Wahhabism, Progressivism

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Wunderstrafanstalt
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Wunderstrafanstalt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:07 am

Havarland wrote:
Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.


To make such bold claims, you also have to get out of your metaphorical closet. Self-closing of one's self breeds extremism and that applies to both sides.

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Frievolk
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Postby Frievolk » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:48 am

Wunderstrafanstalt wrote:
Havarland wrote:
Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.


To make such bold claims, you also have to get out of your metaphorical closet. Self-closing of one's self breeds extremism and that applies to both sides.

The problem he's referring to exist in Iran and Afghanistan, and have more to do with Islamic cutlure than Islamic theology (Culturally, Islam -like Ancient Greece- was very fond of... being near little boys. It wasn't accepted but often just overlooked) though Iran has been trying to get rid of that for a while now.

And yes. Like their prophet, many Muslims are often egoistic, uneducated, short tempered asshats who they take help for granted.
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Communal concils
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Postby Communal concils » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:57 am

Havarland wrote:
The Galactic Supremacy wrote:Barely any educated Muslims, trained in the recitation and interpretative sciences of the Quran, or in any of the secular sciences, would support ISIS or those like them. The Prophet Muhammad would call these groups: Khawarij. The Khawarij were an ancient offshoot sect from Islam who were absolutely violent in their actions, and committed takfir; the calling of other Muslims who disagree with them as Non-Muslims.

I doubt you could back the claim that more Muslims means more terrorists, with statistical evidence for it. Regardless of such, terrorists are defined to be persons who use unlawful violence for political gain. Such could encompass any fanatic politico-religious group.


Most of the Muslims I've met in real life have been egoistic, uneducated, short tempered and they take help for granted. Muslims are extremely racist and they DO NOT help atheists or Christians, unless you are a woman and they want to fuck you.
They still have many Bacha Bazis in Afghanistan where GROW MEN WHO CALL THEMSELVES MUSLIMS FUCK LITTLE YOUNG BOYS! Such people are also in Iran.
There are many flaws with Islam and with majority of Muslims and I do not want to see Muslims being a majority in Europe.




It never helps to assume that 1 billion people are the same.It's a very diverse religion.Shia, Sunni and Sufi are diverse branchs with in the religion.The president of syria follows the Alwaite Branch of Islam.They have christian Names, Drink alcohol and Beleive in a Trinity(which is against most orthodx veiws of God being One).Maybe most of the Muslims you met were from a certain region, The religion is all across Africa, Asia and Europe( Balkan regions, not as in the conspiracy about their current invasions).It's also not racist to discriminate against other religions(they are not ethnic groups).Such claims are over emotional, and don't have backing. Only a fool believes that Europe will completely turn Islamic(If it was true, then it shows how weak Europe is. Which shows their inferiority).
Last edited by Communal concils on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:26 am

I'm surprised this thread ain't locked...
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Wunderstrafanstalt
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Postby Wunderstrafanstalt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:34 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:I'm surprised this thread ain't locked...


Well wouldn't you believe it but I still see some people expressing genuine opinion, and we're still roughly staying on the discussion topic, for now. Some others... well let's just say are "inconveniently motivated"

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Thuzbekistan
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:35 am

Wunderstrafanstalt wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:I'm surprised this thread ain't locked...


Well wouldn't you believe it but I still see some people expressing genuine opinion, and we're still roughly staying on the discussion topic, for now. Some others... well let's just say are "inconveniently motivated"

I've seen that. The Europe discussion is a bit over the top tho.
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Saranidia
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Postby Saranidia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:40 am

I believe in a creator due to:
The kalam cosmological argument
The fact that if the laws of physics were slightly different humanity would never be able to exist.
The Fibonacci sequence in nature.
The trademark argument
The laws of mathematics and logic
The ontological argument(although I could be unsure about it as it seems telekinetic
I think the trademark argument ties in nicely with it to explain it)
Amongst others
Last edited by Saranidia on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Forestavia
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Founded: Oct 06, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Forestavia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:09 am

Salandriagado wrote:
Forestavia wrote:
Why are you viewing God as separate from these children? That's quite an assumption. That assumption tells me that you believe in a God removed from humanity.


That's utterly irrelevant to the question. The children very clearly haven't consented to the torture, so torturing them is still evil, even if you're some kind of collective mind that includes them in some way.


It's 100% relevant. The issue of separation is the number one most relevant question anyone can ask themselves when it comes to the God question. Those children are not being tortured by God. Those children are God itself. Everything is one. The Creator and the Creation are one and the same. This shift in perspective contains the key to personal happiness in this life. Have you ever met someone who has suffered a lot but that person, somehow, is still relatively happy? To have peace with that thing we call "God" IS to have peace with suffering. Peace with suffering is surrender. Surrender is the end of suffering. I would much rather see a happy child die from cancer than a miserable adult. In Matthew 19, Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belongs to children. It does. Children are better at suffering than we are as adults. There are a lot of things that children can teach us about life. If we're willing to listen.

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:23 am

Forestavia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
That's utterly irrelevant to the question. The children very clearly haven't consented to the torture, so torturing them is still evil, even if you're some kind of collective mind that includes them in some way.


It's 100% relevant. The issue of separation is the number one most relevant question anyone can ask themselves when it comes to the God question. Those children are not being tortured by God. Those children are God itself. Everything is one. The Creator and the Creation are one and the same. This shift in perspective contains the key to personal happiness in this life. Have you ever met someone who has suffered a lot but that person, somehow, is still relatively happy? To have peace with that thing we call "God" IS to have peace with suffering. Peace with suffering is surrender. Surrender is the end of suffering. I would much rather see a happy child die from cancer than a miserable adult. In Matthew 19, Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven belongs to children. It does. Children are better at suffering than we are as adults. There are a lot of things that children can teach us about life. If we're willing to listen.

God has always been written as separate from humanity. You're gonna have to find some biblical support for this. I mean, the entire point of jesus was to create a bridge from our sinful nature to God. By sinning, we separated this world from God according to the bible. He only accepts believers back into his fold.
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