NATION

## Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Olthar
Khan of Spam

Posts: 59474
Founded: Jun 23, 2010
Corporate Police State
Uan aa Boa wrote:... Mathematical objects, ...

An abstract concept.

... the 1707 Act of Union, ...

A piece of paper detailing an abstract concept.

... the way strawberries taste to you, ...

Qualia based on electrical signals in the brain.

... Harry Potter, ...

A book series about a fictional character.

... justice ...

Doesn't exist.

My mommy says I'm special.
Add 37 to my post count for my previous nation.

Copy and paste this into your signature if you're a unique and special individual who won't conform to another person's demands.

The Foxes Swamp

Posts: 1055
Founded: Jul 13, 2014
New York Times Democracy
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”
Albert Einstein
“Your perspective is always limited by how much you know. Expand your knowledge and you will transform your mind.”
Bruce H. Lipton

Nordengrund
Negotiator

Posts: 7472
Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
I was raised believing in God and I still do. Even as a kid, I figured someone or something created us, but vague on the details. I find some atheistic arguments reasonable, but nothing that has made me want to deconvert.
Why I’m not a conservative.

Pro:Life, Christianity, Christian humanism, libertarianism, Georgism, LVT, legalization of soft drugs, marriage privatization, Israel
Neutral/Mixed: Trump, capital punishment, vaccinations (everyone should be vaccinated, but I oppose giving the government power over it), euthanasia, Libertarian Party, capitalism, Palestine
Anti: Gun control, auhtoritarianism, Communism, theocracy, antitheism, progressivism, Republican Party, Democratic Party

Cekoviu
Negotiator

Posts: 6403
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest
Rojava Free State wrote:One thing i dont get is why white people are less religious than minorities. Like you would expect the people with on average harder lives to have less faith in all loving god. As a puerto rican, this always baffled me.

Like ive had 18 friends murdered, suicide or OD, and you're still tryna tell me god is looking out for us? Tell God to do something already, kids are dying and my neighborhood is like Sudan. S.O.S.

My guess is that it's comforting to the underprivileged for there to be a second life where everything is in abundance.
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Senyosu
Senator

Posts: 3609
Founded: Mar 14, 2014
New York Times Democracy
I'm a (kinda practicing) Buddhist, so whether or not God exists is out of the question for me, really don't care if that exists let alone believe in it.

You may, and rightfully so, try to prove the existence and thus justify belief in such an entity. But why does this matter? Even if it turns out that entity has a moral compass, why does it matter? Ultimately you are responsible for what to do with this information. Although, I do hope you do some kind of "good" unto others, God believing or God denying, since that is what matters.

your/my metaphysics and your/my theology are dust in the wind when it comes to what matters

basically idk/idc if god exists just be a good human being ffs
Last edited by Senyosu on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Senyosu is under reconstruction, however, former tropes still apply

The State of Senyosu ― Senñosy-ül Jür

Your resident Frugal, Nationalistic, Quasi-Jingoist, Buddhist-Tengrist, North-East Asian, Technocratic, Democratic Khanate
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Wunderstrafanstalt
Chargé d'Affaires

Posts: 374
Founded: Feb 19, 2017
Corporate Bordello
So I see there are a lot of agnostics here, but there is this question: if "God" exists and you don't subscribe to any system of belief, is there any point/benefit in believing at all? One of the most important part of organized religion is its moral system. I agree with my religion's moral system, okay a major portion of its moral system, which is why I still abide its rules even though I'm standing in a crosspoint by now. Besides, one of the most important part of religion is providing internal salvation and meaning which I definitely get.
Last edited by Wunderstrafanstalt on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

CFR WUNDERSTRAFANSTALT - LAIRAN UNION
"Ad astra et ultra" - "To the stars and beyond"

14.0 | MT | F17 | $LFD | Kurzgesagt | IC Flag | Flag Patron: Bill Gates The Continel - Jovesday, 12019-3-3: Big Green Axe planetary carbon tax and cap program in action starting 1 Maxxch 12019, fossil energy taxed up to 40% | Hayska orders investigation after a suspiciously positioned potted plant fell and landed 3m from the president during BGA announcement in Narclaw. Acknowledge IRL me as emperor of the world; this nation in general and this in particular will be the result | Lowkey and socially awkward Indonesian agnostic | #JokowiLagi | Antivaxx is a conspiracy spread by Big Alt-Med to exploit the poor /depopulate the world. Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt Panem and Circensis wrote:I don’t believe in God for the following reasons: 1. Let’s start off with the obvious: if there was an omniscient deity in the skies, we would have probably found such a person. Remember, all major religions were founded more than a thousand years before the Enlightenment and modern science. Heck, Christianity was founded 2,000 years ago. People learned washing your hands fought germs in the 19th century. 2. In all texts, this omniscient being demands the loyalty of humanity, so that they get a reserved spot in the clouds. If not, you get sent to a place of fire and torture. Why would any god need humanity’s unconditional fealty if they are all powerful and much more altruistic than the rest of us? 3. In all religious text, this deity is a benevolent figure. If this deity is so benevolent, then why were there so many wars, plagues, and famines. Today, there is repression, inequality both in income and in race, discrimination, murder, ignorance, disease, and bad things happening to good people. Why? 4. The very definition of death revolves around it being the end of your consciousness. Ergo, the idea of an afterlife is ludicrous, because then death doesn’t really exist. 1. But He doesn't live in the sky 2. I, as an Orthodox, do not believe that a loving God sends anyone to an eternal tourture chamber 3. Free will 4. Yep. Moat religions will argue that there is no death Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt Rojava Free State wrote:One thing i dont get is why white people are less religious than minorities. Like you would expect the people with on average harder lives to have less faith in all loving god. As a puerto rican, this always baffled me. Like ive had 18 friends murdered, suicide or OD, and you're still tryna tell me god is looking out for us? Tell God to do something already, kids are dying and my neighborhood is like Sudan. S.O.S. Aside from everything else here, white privilege is absolute bullcrap Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt Bienenhalde wrote: Rojava Free State wrote:One thing i dont get is why white people are less religious than minorities. Like you would expect the people with on average harder lives to have less faith in all loving god. As a puerto rican, this always baffled me. Like ive had 18 friends murdered, suicide or OD, and you're still tryna tell me god is looking out for us? Tell God to do something already, kids are dying and my neighborhood is like Sudan. S.O.S. On the contrary, it seems that many people who have difficult lives turn to religion as a source of solace, while people who are materially wealthy and have things handed to them on a silver platter are more likely to be religiously apathetic. Of course, such trends do not hold true for all individuals. If God didn't exist, life would be easier. Now I have the fear of hell hanging over my head Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Godular Powerbroker Posts: 9012 Founded: Sep 09, 2004 New York Times Democracy Australian rePublic wrote: Bienenhalde wrote: On the contrary, it seems that many people who have difficult lives turn to religion as a source of solace, while people who are materially wealthy and have things handed to them on a silver platter are more likely to be religiously apathetic. Of course, such trends do not hold true for all individuals. If God didn't exist, life would be easier. Now I have the fear of hell hanging over my head If God doesn't exist, neither would Hell. Unless there's some sort of blimp floating around named The Fear of Hell, and it just sorta hovered over you. RL position Active RP: ASCENSION Active RP: SHENRYAX Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- A collective of formerly human bioborgs engaged in a galaxy-spanning reign of terror for as-yet-unknown reasons. (SWG) Faction 2: The Servants of the True Way of the Will-- A multi-species anti-technology crusade that travels the galaxy in ships brought forth from the power of their own minds. (MWG) (Faction represented in WA) A 3.1 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt The World Capitalist Confederation wrote: Bienenhalde wrote: On the contrary, it seems that many people who have difficult lives turn to religion as a source of solace, while people who are materially wealthy and have things handed to them on a silver platter are more likely to be religiously apathetic. Of course, such trends do not hold true for all individuals. Rather than materialism, it’s more linked to education: those with more education are more likely to be wealthy, and atheist at the same time. Correlation =/= Causation. Give a poor person education for free and they’ll be as likely to become an atheist as the rich man with the same amount of education. It’s a case of C causes both A and B rather than A causing B. With the same fallacy, we could say that cigarettes cause cancer by physically existing. The argument that religious people are uneducated is absolutely and utterly moronic. I have a basic, basic understanding of theology, and can tell you that there is absolutely no way that you can conduct advanced, or even intimediate theology, unless you're HIGHLY educated. And that's just if you conduct theology in YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE. That does NOT include those who learn Ancient Hebrew/Greek/(insert language which applies to your religion). I'll pose a theological question to you and you judge for yourself if you can answer it, USING THE BIBLE ALONE: What does the Old Testament tell us about Jesus (and don't say nothing. The answer most certainly is NOT nothing. Also, don't tell us the requirements for the arrival of the messiah. That's a cop out) Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt Dogmeat wrote: Olthar wrote:I also doubt God ever had acne, and I'm sure he has a full head of hair. I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him. I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt The blAAtschApen wrote: Esternial wrote:Well, if you go with someone (relatively) less outlandish like aliens, you get the same discussion. You can never 100% confirm the absence of intelligent alien life. The main distinction I see is that God is being credited with a much wider array of deeds - mostly because (as I see it) God is a personification of "something we cannot understand". Soooo God is a woman? Actully, God is genderless. Refering to God with male pronouns is because of a bad mistranslation Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt Godular wrote: Australian rePublic wrote:If God didn't exist, life would be easier. Now I have the fear of hell hanging over my head If God doesn't exist, neither would Hell. My point, exactly Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Frievolk Minister Posts: 3368 Founded: Jun 14, 2018 Left-Leaning College State Australian rePublic wrote: Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him. I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly ... How else can you interpret that though? OOC Libertarian Constitutionalist Part-time Anarchist Anti-Monotheist Iranian Nationalist Templates ♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn. Petrolheadia Postmaster-General Posts: 10009 Founded: May 02, 2015 New York Times Democracy Australian rePublic wrote: Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him. I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly Why not? Australian rePublic wrote: The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Rather than materialism, it’s more linked to education: those with more education are more likely to be wealthy, and atheist at the same time. Correlation =/= Causation. Give a poor person education for free and they’ll be as likely to become an atheist as the rich man with the same amount of education. It’s a case of C causes both A and B rather than A causing B. With the same fallacy, we could say that cigarettes cause cancer by physically existing. The argument that religious people are uneducated is absolutely and utterly moronic. I have a basic, basic understanding of theology, and can tell you that there is absolutely no way that you can conduct advanced, or even intimediate theology, unless you're HIGHLY educated. And that's just if you conduct theology in YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE. That does NOT include those who learn Ancient Hebrew/Greek/(insert language which applies to your religion). I'll pose a theological question to you and you judge for yourself if you can answer it, USING THE BIBLE ALONE: What does the Old Testament tell us about Jesus (and don't say nothing. The answer most certainly is NOT nothing. Also, don't tell us the requirements for the arrival of the messiah. That's a cop out) If even your holy book says your God will be despised, there's quite a chance it isn't a good one. Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need. Communism, socialism, Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, multiculturalism, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need. We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS! Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic, centre-libertarian. Where you can talk about cars! If you can't get a convertible, run really fast down a highway with wind in your hair and people shouting "You're crazy!". - Kenny Loggins, If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki. Australian rePublic Post Marshal Posts: 15429 Founded: Mar 18, 2013 Capitalizt Petrolheadia wrote: Australian rePublic wrote:I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly Why not? I don't have enough theological training to answer that Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian Why stylised as "rePublic" 14 Published Issues Fantastic Song Quotes Issue Ideas You Can Steal Petrolheadia Postmaster-General Posts: 10009 Founded: May 02, 2015 New York Times Democracy Australian rePublic wrote: Petrolheadia wrote:Why not? I don't have enough theological training to answer that So why do you even say it? Besides, the idea of God just straight-out mixing metaphor with face value and covering it in ahistorical data seems fishy. Last edited by Petrolheadia on Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total. Capitalism, single-payer healthcare, pro-choice, LGBT rights, progressive personal taxation, low corporate tax, pro-business law, welfare for those in need. Communism, socialism, Nazism, edgism, dogmatic statements, multiculturalism, most of Abrahamic-derived morality (esp. as law), welfare for those not in need. We are not Albania and I am not Albanian, FFS! Male, gearhead, classic rock fan, gamer, agnostic, centre-libertarian. Where you can talk about cars! If you can't get a convertible, run really fast down a highway with wind in your hair and people shouting "You're crazy!". - Kenny Loggins, If a Porsche owner treats it like a bicycle, he's a gentleman. And if he prays to it, he's simply a moron. - Jan Nowicki. The blAAtschApen Retired Moderator Posts: 52001 Founded: Antiquity Forumer Mod Australian rePublic wrote: The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Rather than materialism, it’s more linked to education: those with more education are more likely to be wealthy, and atheist at the same time. Correlation =/= Causation. Give a poor person education for free and they’ll be as likely to become an atheist as the rich man with the same amount of education. It’s a case of C causes both A and B rather than A causing B. With the same fallacy, we could say that cigarettes cause cancer by physically existing. The argument that religious people are uneducated is absolutely and utterly moronic. I have a basic, basic understanding of theology, and can tell you that there is absolutely no way that you can conduct advanced, or even intimediate theology, unless you're HIGHLY educated. And that's just if you conduct theology in YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE. That does NOT include those who learn Ancient Hebrew/Greek/(insert language which applies to your religion). Good old fashioned Scientology luckily has original sacred texts in English Time to convert! Former mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo Heaven is other people Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state. Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain Silent is an anagram of listen. Proud adopter of a lamb called violet: http://imgur.com/a/pxnSf Male. Please address me as 'he'. This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long. Frievolk Minister Posts: 3368 Founded: Jun 14, 2018 Left-Leaning College State Petrolheadia wrote: Australian rePublic wrote:I don't have enough theological training to answer that So why do you even say it? Besides, the idea of God just straight-out mixing metaphor with face value and covering it in ahistorical data seems fishy. But it still does check out with the MO of Jehova all through the OT, all things considered. OOC Libertarian Constitutionalist Part-time Anarchist Anti-Monotheist Iranian Nationalist Templates ♔ The Frievolker Empire || Frievolker Kaiserreik ♔ The Realm in the Sun || De Reik in de Sonne ♔ Led by Kaiser Johann, Part of the Erstwelt Never forget that the Muslims literally made up a new meaningless name for him when they forgot the name of Adam's Firstborn. British Tackeettlaus Attaché Posts: 92 Founded: Oct 28, 2018 Liberal Democratic Socialists I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih. Wunderstrafanstalt Chargé d'Affaires Posts: 374 Founded: Feb 19, 2017 Corporate Bordello British Tackeettlaus wrote:I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih. My mother's a muslim yet she likes Christian teachings especially the things about "love", "forgiveness" etc (She was enrolled to a Christian school), as opposed to "kill the gays" ruling of Islam. The point is that religious morality and teachings doesn't instantly evaporate even if you don't believe in the god(s) of [INSERT FAITH], and isn't it's what organized religions are trying to achieve? CFR WUNDERSTRAFANSTALT - LAIRAN UNION "Ad astra et ultra" - "To the stars and beyond" 14.0 | MT | F17 |$LFD | Kurzgesagt | IC Flag | Flag Patron: Bill Gates

The Continel - Jovesday, 12019-3-3: Big Green Axe planetary carbon tax and cap program in action starting 1 Maxxch 12019, fossil energy taxed up to 40% | Hayska orders investigation after a suspiciously positioned potted plant fell and landed 3m from the president during BGA announcement in Narclaw.
Acknowledge IRL me as emperor of the world; this nation in general and this in particular will be the result | Lowkey and socially awkward Indonesian agnostic | #JokowiLagi | Antivaxx is a conspiracy spread by Big Alt-Med to exploit the poor /depopulate the world.

Uan aa Boa
Diplomat

Posts: 661
Founded: Apr 23, 2017
Democratic Socialists
Australian rePublic wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. There was that one time God killed a bunch of kids for calling Elisha bald. Obviously it's a touchy issue for him.

I'm pretty sure we weren't meant to interpret that literaly

If we found the same things in another text of the period that came from one of the many Ancient Near Eastern religions that are no longer practised we wouldn't bat an eyelid. We'd just say that evidently the Assyrians (or whatever) believed their holy men had the ability to curse their enemies. It's only problematic because a descendent of this religion still exists, so we feel that this particular ancient text must in some way be read so as to be compatible with 21st century ethics.

British Tackeettlaus
Attaché

Posts: 92
Founded: Oct 28, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists
Wunderstrafanstalt wrote:
British Tackeettlaus wrote:I'm an atheist, but I really like jesus. A agree with a lot of his views on acceptance, love and charity. Less so on his stuff about the kingdom of heaven, and being the son of God, the messaih.

My mother's a muslim yet she likes Christian teachings especially the things about "love", "forgiveness" etc (She was enrolled to a Christian school), as opposed to "kill the gays" ruling of Islam. The point is that religious morality and teachings doesn't instantly evaporate even if you don't believe in the god(s) of [INSERT FAITH], and isn't it's what organized religions are trying to achieve?

Yeah. People think that if you are an atheist you must not have any morals. They say, "if there is no hell and no judgement from above, what's to stop you killing and raping?"

What terrifies me is the implication the only thing stopping them from being an evil monster is fear of punishment in the afterlife!

Gospel Power
Diplomat

Posts: 558
Founded: Sep 03, 2017
Authoritarian Democracy
Not going to say anything deep here, for me to believe in God is a choice.
I found the Bible to be true enough for me and accepted Jesus sacrifice for my sins, I view him as a model to follow.

I don't need to seek proofs and to live my entire life questioning if there is a God or not, to become a great scientist or priest, since no one can prove if there is a God or not, I choose to believe in God and Jesus as my saviour.
For me, there is life after death so I try to make myself ready for it (I have a lot of years to live until death).

It gives me happiness to believe that there is life after I die and stop questioning things which I cannot prove, and I love my church and christian life.

Say whatever you want and believe whatever you want, it doesn't affect me, Jesus loves you and died for your sins, he is waiting for us all after we die.
Last edited by Gospel Power on Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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