Supreme Court and LGBT Job Bias

[San Lumen]

I dont see why it ought to be legal.

Yet you cant make a case for why it should be illegal.

Because skin color or sexual orientation isnt something you choose and doesnt impact your ability to do the job

[Pagan Trapistan]

Because skin color or sexual orientation isnt something you choose and doesnt impact your ability to do the job

And effectively degenerates the society by depriving it of talent.

[Des-Bal]

Because skin color or sexual orientation isnt something you choose and doesnt impact your ability to do the job

Or your ability to be a friendifficult and yet...

[Pagan Trapistan]

Or your ability to be a friendifficult and yet...

I don't have any problem with there being implemented anti-racist education.

[Scomagia]

Yet you cant make a case for why it should be illegal.

Because skin color or sexual orientation isnt something you choose and doesnt impact your ability to do the job

That's not an argument. You're really very bad at this.

[San Lumen]

Because skin color or sexual orientation isnt something you choose and doesnt impact your ability to do the job

And effectively degenerates the society by depriving it of talent.

I dont follow

[Pagan Trapistan]

I dont follow

There's someone who would be best for the job, but he's black. If the entire society discriminates on this basis, its operating on a lower talent level. Whats more it is probably run by private cabals, since it is enforcing a private criteria for the creation of structures.

[San Lumen]

I dont follow

There's someone who would be best for the job, but he's black. If the entire society discriminates on this basis, its operating on a lower talent level. Whats more it is probably run by private cabals, since it is enforcing a private criteria.

Therefore why should discrimination like that be allowed?

[Pagan Trapistan]

Therefore why should discrimination like that be allowed?

It shouldn't, it empowers private cabals and corruption.

[Pagan Trapistan]

If good law is strong, the country is strong; if good law is weak, the country is weak.

If promotions are made because of mere reputations, then men are estranged and associate for treasonable purposes. If people appointed on account of their partisanship, then the people strive to cultivate friendships and never seek employment in accordance with the law. It's institutions lack able men, the state falls into confusion. When they form juntas in and out, then though they have great faults, their ways of disguise will be innumerable. Should wicked people enjoy security and prosperity without rendering any meritorious service, villainous people would advance. This is the beginning of decay.

The reason therefore is: decisions are not made in accordance with law, but people are trusted for whatever they do. Therefore, the intelligent sovereign makes the law select men. He makes protocol measure merits and makes no arbitrary regulation. In consequence, able men cannot be obscured, bad characters cannot be disguised; falsely praised fellows cannot be advanced, wrongly defamed people cannot be degraded.

If the superior uses his eyes, the inferior ornaments his looks; if the superior uses his ears, the inferior ornaments his voice; and, if the superior uses his mind, the inferior twists his sentences. So rely on protocols and numbers, and act carefully on the principles of reward and punishment.

The law does not fawn on the noble; the string does not yield to the crooked. Whatever the law applies to, the wise cannot reject nor can the brave defy. Punishment for fault never skips ministers, reward for good never misses commoners. Therefore, to correct the faults of the high, to suppress disorders, to decide against mistakes, to subdue the arrogant, to straighten the crooked, nothing can match law.

[Ors Might]

The idea that the rights one has when they don’t own a business changes the moment they do own a business is a morally bankrupt one. Either one does have a right to discriminate against who they associate with or they do not.

[Pagan Trapistan]

The idea that the rights one has when they don’t own a business changes the moment they do own a business is a morally bankrupt one. Either one does have a right to discriminate against who they associate with or they do not.

No one said you can't discriminate, people in positions of power just can't do it on a bigoted basis.

There is a difference between a business owner and a private citizen. A business owner has a license.

[Ors Might]

The idea that the rights one has when they don’t own a business changes the moment they do own a business is a morally bankrupt one. Either one does have a right to discriminate against who they associate with or they do not.

No one said you can't discriminate, people in positions of power just can't do it on a bigoted basis.

There is a difference between a business owner and a private citizen. A business owner has a license.

I’m of the position that wrong is wrong, regardless of how much power one personally holds. I see no reason to force association.

[San Lumen]

No one said you can't discriminate, people in positions of power just can't do it on a bigoted basis.

There is a difference between a business owner and a private citizen. A business owner has a license.

I’m of the position that wrong is wrong, regardless of how much power one personally holds. I see no reason to force association.

So anyone denied service or fired for race, religion or sexual orientation should simply say oh well and just move on

[Ors Might]

I’m of the position that wrong is wrong, regardless of how much power one personally holds. I see no reason to force association.

So anyone denied service or fired for race, religion or sexual orientation should simply say oh well and just move on

That’s what everyone else does when they’re fired, so yes.

[San Lumen]

So anyone denied service or fired for race, religion or sexual orientation should simply say oh well and just move on

That’s what everyone else does when they’re fired, so yes.

Well i disagree. I should not have to keep who i love secret from my employer in hopes they dont find out so I dont lose my job.

[Ors Might]

That’s what everyone else does when they’re fired, so yes.

Well i disagree. I should not have to keep who i love secret from my employer in hopes they dont find out so I dont lose my job.

Your employeer shouldn’t be forced to hire you or refrain from firing you. You aren’t entitled to their association.

[San Lumen]

Well i disagree. I should not have to keep who i love secret from my employer in hopes they dont find out so I dont lose my job.

Your employeer shouldn’t be forced to hire you or refrain from firing you. You aren’t entitled to their association.

No one said anything about being forced to hire anyone. Something one did not choose should not be grounds for termination. I fail to see how that should be allowed.

[Ors Might]

Your employeer shouldn’t be forced to hire you or refrain from firing you. You aren’t entitled to their association.

No one said anything about being forced to hire anyone. Something one did not choose should not be grounds for termination. I fail to see how that should be allowed.

I fail to see how it shouldn’t.

[San Lumen]

No one said anything about being forced to hire anyone. Something one did not choose should not be grounds for termination. I fail to see how that should be allowed.

I fail to see how it shouldn’t.

Why should it be allowed besides supposed freedom of association which is not a recognized right for business as far as I know.

[Ors Might]

I fail to see how it shouldn’t.

Why should it be allowed besides supposed freedom of association which is not a recognized right for business as far as I know.

Because business owners have freedom of association. They have the right to not associate with those they don’t wish to associate with.

[San Lumen]

Why should it be allowed besides supposed freedom of association which is not a recognized right for business as far as I know.

Because business owners have freedom of association. They have the right to not associate with those they don’t wish to associate with.

Says who? This right is not recognized as one. In your view is the Civil Rights Act unconstitutional?

If someone makes a hotel reservation that they paid for why should the hotel have the right to turn them away at the door for being gay or black or asian?

[The Rich Port]

Why should it be allowed besides supposed freedom of association which is not a recognized right for business as far as I know.

Because business owners have freedom of association. They have the right to not associate with those they don’t wish to associate with.

So what you're saying is... You're pro-Affirmative Action, then?

[Ors Might]

Because business owners have freedom of association. They have the right to not associate with those they don’t wish to associate with.

Says who? This right is not recognized as one. In your view is the Civil Rights Act unconstitutional?

If someone makes a hotel reservation that they paid for why should the hotel have the right to turn them away at the door for being gay or black or asian?

Says me. Says justice. In my view, the right to choose whether or not to associate is greater than the right to have a job.

Now this is a tricky situation. I would say essential goods and services should be required to be provided to anyone, regardless of race, sex, etc. But that’s vastly different than hiring someone and I only take that position because someone dying is of greater consequence than someone having to interact with someone else for a few minutes.

[Ors Might]

Because business owners have freedom of association. They have the right to not associate with those they don’t wish to associate with.

So what you're saying is... You're pro-Affirmative Action, then?

Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding you, I’m somewhat tired, but you seem to be asking if I’m perfectly fine with an employer independently choosing to hire based on social justice and wanting to provide better opportunities for demographics that typically lack them. If that’s the case and it isn’t being forced upon the employer, then I see no reason why I should oppose them.