When is it time to leave a country becoming a dictatorship?

[Unithonia]

I pointed out that, rather then tell me your definition, you looked it up and copy-pasted. That speak volumes about your level of knowledge

I didn't look it up at all. You are clearly confused.

Considering that comes word-by-word from Oxford Dictionaries, I doubt that

[Caracasus]

Socialism is the belief that the means of production should be collectively owned rather than the property of private individuals. This requires the abolition of capitalism.

Social democracy is the belief that the worst excesses of capitalism can be restrained with the provision of adequate social support and welfare.

Sanders is a social democrat and I've seen enough of New California Republic to confidently state they are more than aware of these definitions.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I would, but that'd be blatant threadjacking, which I am not going to indulge for your benefit.

The classic, I would BUT
How to avoid a debate 101, with your host, Ocasio-Cortez

Ironic, because you've just committed this very fallacy by refusing to abandon your threadjack.

[The New California Republic]

I would, but that'd be blatant threadjacking, which I am not going to indulge for your benefit.

The classic, I would BUT
How to avoid a debate 101, with your host, Ocasio-Cortez

Shame they didn't have a "how to prevent confusion 101", as you clearly need it, since you confused me with another forum user earlier.

I didn't look it up at all. You are clearly confused.

Considering that comes word-by-word from Oxford Dictionaries, I doubt that

West Leas Oros 2 posted the definition, not me. Like I said, you are clearly confused.

[Thermodolia]

Only if your a fucking marxist

Which the majority of Americans advocating for Socialism are

Um no. There’s a good bit of Libertarian socialists and syndicalists running around.

[Violet Kingdom]

I would, but that'd be blatant threadjacking, which I am not going to indulge for your benefit.

The classic, I would BUT
How to avoid a debate 101, with your host, Ocasio-Cortez

I mean, it's not avoiding since it's literally going against the point of the thread, aka threadjacking which is against the rules...
If anything you declare victory based on the fact that people don't want to break rules to argue with you, how to win a debate 101.



About the topic though, whenever you feel like leaving it, really, if it starts being too unfree for your liking, get out of it if you can, move to a place with better standards of living, it doesn't have to involve a dictatorship really, just basic common-sense.

[Frievolk]

As, probably, the only person currently on this thread that does live in a Dictatorship, I'd say you should -if you're not planning on submitting to the State, betraying your fellow citizens, or violently revolting in the next few months- get the hell out of dodge the moment the state -or, indeed, any establishment politician, or any politician with a popular base- starts using an Us vs. Them fearmongering rhetoric to centralize power. The moment you see the State cease to be neutral and go against a group (any group: Religious, Political, Social, Ethnic or gender demographic, et. al.). There are a lot of other signs of rising authoritarianism too, but these are honestly the most obvious. If someone wants to centralize power, either assassinate them, arrest them, force them out of politics, or get the fuck out of the country.

[Novus America]

Only if your a fucking marxist

Which the majority of Americans advocating for Socialism are

The vast majority of Americans advocating socialism are a confused mess who have no idea what they are talking about who think Sweden is socialist whey it obviously is not, and claim to support the Nordic Model of social democracy despite having no idea how said model actually works.

Namely because that model is actually capitalist, combining high economic freedom (which they oppose) with a welfare state (which they support).

So I am not sure if they are truly socialist. But certainly Cortez and Sanders really have no clue what they are talking about, and are either simply ignorant and/or not very bright.

[Trumptonium1]

Depends on the dictatorship.

I have a soft spot for China, and I could live with it. If it was something like Chile under Pinochet, I'd be fine with it, since it isn't a dictatorship if you're right-wing as you have nothing to fear as I do.

Turkey, Russia and Brazil are most definitely not dictatorships, nor is any country in Central Europe, which I'm assuming you refer to Italy/Hungary/Poland.

I would leave if a authoritarian commie/socialist won. Not quite the new Mexican Pres, but a bit further left.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Which the majority of Americans advocating for Socialism are

The vast majority of Americans advocating socialism are a confused mess who have no idea what they are talking about who think Sweden is socialist whey it obviously is not, and claim to support the Nordic Model of social democracy despite having no idea how said model actually works.

Namely because that model is actually capitalist, combining high economic freedom (which they oppose) with a welfare state (which they support).

So I am not sure if they are truly socialist. But certainly Cortez and Sanders really have no clue what they are talking about, and are either simply ignorant and/or not very bright.

They're called College Commies. Young adults who found out about Marx for the first time last semester and think they have the answers for all society's problems now. The irony being they contribute to society's problems by complaining about Capitalism on Facebook using Apple laptops while wearing Che Guevara t-shirts they ordered off Amazon.

They're usually blissfully unaware of their own irony.

[Novus America]

Which the majority of Americans advocating for Socialism are

Um no. There’s a good bit of Libertarian socialists and syndicalists running around.

But certainly the majority (including Cortez and Sanders) do not seem to actually understand socialism nor social democracy and just babble on about how Sweden and Denmark are socialist even though they obviously are not, and clearly not understanding or outright rejecting key parts of the systems in those countries (they would probably have a heart attack to learn the Nordic countries have conscription, and are pro business with a very high degree of economic freedom.

But to get back on topic Cortez and Sanders are not would be dictator Marxists Leninists.
Just clueless.

[Thermodolia]

Um no. There’s a good bit of Libertarian socialists and syndicalists running around.

But certainly the majority (including Cortez and Sanders) do not seem to actually understand socialism nor social democracy and just babble on about how Sweden and Denmark are socialist even though they obviously are not, and clearly not understanding or outright rejecting key parts of the systems in those countries (they would probably have a heart attack to learn the Nordic countries have conscription, and are pro business with a very high degree of economic freedom.

But to get back on topic Cortez and Sanders are not would be dictator Marxists Leninists.
Just clueless.

Oh I definitely agree. Americans have no clue what socialism actually is. Newsflash Sweden isn’t socialist.

Sanders isn’t socialist just a crazy haired social democrat. Cortez is definitely bonkers though

[Heloin]

As, probably, the only person currently on this thread that does live in a Dictatorship, I'd say you should -if you're not planning on submitting to the State, betraying your fellow citizens, or violently revolting in the next few months- get the hell out of dodge the moment the state -or, indeed, any establishment politician, or any politician with a popular base- starts using an Us vs. Them fearmongering rhetoric to centralize power. The moment you see the State cease to be neutral and go against a group (any group: Religious, Political, Social, Ethnic or gender demographic, et. al.). There are a lot of other signs of rising authoritarianism too, but these are honestly the most obvious. If someone wants to centralize power, either assassinate them, arrest them, force them out of politics, or get the fuck out of the country.

After reading that and thinking about it, I'm probably too nostalgic for Zimbabwe seeing as I'm looking over alot of its faults. Hell it's hard not to want to live in your home country and I'll probably still be heading back in a number of years.

Depends on the dictatorship.

I have a soft spot for China, and I could live with it. If it was something like Chile under Pinochet, I'd be fine with it, since it isn't a dictatorship if you're right-wing as you have nothing to fear as I do.

Spoken like someone who's never had to fear for there life from the state.

[Saiwania]

In Nazi Germany's case, if you're not in a position to join the regime- it'd be after the Enabling Act or the Night of the Long Knives. Things only get really interesting after people are actually murdered or imprisoned extrajudicially on an arbitrary basis.

[West Leas Oros 2]

The vast majority of Americans advocating socialism are a confused mess who have no idea what they are talking about who think Sweden is socialist whey it obviously is not, and claim to support the Nordic Model of social democracy despite having no idea how said model actually works.

Namely because that model is actually capitalist, combining high economic freedom (which they oppose) with a welfare state (which they support).

So I am not sure if they are truly socialist. But certainly Cortez and Sanders really have no clue what they are talking about, and are either simply ignorant and/or not very bright.

They're called College Commies. Young adults who found out about Marx for the first time last semester and think they have the answers for all society's problems now. The irony being they contribute to society's problems by complaining about Capitalism on Facebook using Apple laptops while wearing Che Guevara t-shirts they ordered off Amazon.

They're usually blissfully unaware of their own irony.

Most of them haven’t even read Marx.

[Longweather]

Depends on the regime and one's goals. If you're in the demonized out-group, it would be safest at the ascension of power. Otherwise, stay and fight or leave when it looks like targeted state violence will come your way.

If you're in the privileged group, leave if your prospects look to be getting worse. Either if rights are taken or circumstances start to go downhill. The alternative is also staying and fighting.

[Mardla]

Most states throughout most of history were authoritarian dictatorships or oligarchies. I don't see how that is a valid reason to leave your homeland

[Cetacea]

It’s a democratic republic. Though the democratic part is being chipped away

By whom? I still see popular vote as mattering to the electoral college, I just think they found Trump was a better candidate, that's not a dictatorship. It's not like in 2020 there won't be another election.

The irony is the Electoral College is the very thing that makes you not a democracy, you don’t vote for your government you vote for your Plutarch and they choose El Presidente

[Heloin]

Most states throughout most of history were authoritarian dictatorships or oligarchies. I don't see how that is a valid reason to leave your homeland

And for most of history most people were illiterate peasants who couldn't know there lives could be better.

[God Tere Norld]

As soon as the government starts displaying:

Clamping down on personal freedoms

Clamping down on gun rights

Clamping down on speech

(Assuming its still a democracy at this point) Having a vote on making it illegal to leave the country

That’s a good sign that its becoming a dictatorship. Some countries do 2-3 of those things like the UK, but once its Having a vote on making it illegal to leave the country, or even an executive order in the US being planned, GO GO GO GO

[The New California Republic]

As soon as the government starts displaying:

Clamping down on personal freedoms

Clamping down on gun rights

Clamping down on speech

(Assuming its still a democracy at this point) Having a vote on making it illegal to leave the country

That’s a good sign that its becoming a dictatorship. Some countries do 2-3 of those things like the UK, but once its Having a vote on making it illegal to leave the country, or even an executive order in the US being planned, GO GO GO GO

Which ones, pray tell? And don't say the gun rights one, that option is invalid, since the UK never had gun rights in the first place; the 2nd Amendment is an American phenomenon.

[Bienenhalde]

But certainly the majority (including Cortez and Sanders) do not seem to actually understand socialism nor social democracy and just babble on about how Sweden and Denmark are socialist even though they obviously are not, and clearly not understanding or outright rejecting key parts of the systems in those countries (they would probably have a heart attack to learn the Nordic countries have conscription, and are pro business with a very high degree of economic freedom.

But to get back on topic Cortez and Sanders are not would be dictator Marxists Leninists.
Just clueless.

Nordic countries have monarchies and state churches, too!!!

[God Tere Norld]

As soon as the government starts displaying:

Clamping down on personal freedoms

Clamping down on gun rights

Clamping down on speech

(Assuming its still a democracy at this point) Having a vote on making it illegal to leave the country

That’s a good sign that its becoming a dictatorship. Some countries do 2-3 of those things like the UK, but once its Having a vote on making it illegal to leave the country, or even an executive order in the US being planned, GO GO GO GO

Which ones, pray tell? And don't say the gun rights one, that option is invalid, since the UK never had gun rights in the first place; the 2nd Amendment is an American phenomenon.

1: Guns rights was one of the ones, as I believe non building-destroying weapons fall under self defense. But if you dont want to include that then there is only one

2: Hate speech is banned in the UK, wich falls under free speech

[Mardla]

Most states throughout most of history were authoritarian dictatorships or oligarchies. I don't see how that is a valid reason to leave your homeland

And for most of history most people were illiterate peasants who couldn't know there lives could be better.

Literacy was far less important before books could be mass-produced.

[Trumptonium1]

As, probably, the only person currently on this thread that does live in a Dictatorship, I'd say you should -if you're not planning on submitting to the State, betraying your fellow citizens, or violently revolting in the next few months- get the hell out of dodge the moment the state -or, indeed, any establishment politician, or any politician with a popular base- starts using an Us vs. Them fearmongering rhetoric to centralize power. The moment you see the State cease to be neutral and go against a group (any group: Religious, Political, Social, Ethnic or gender demographic, et. al.). There are a lot of other signs of rising authoritarianism too, but these are honestly the most obvious. If someone wants to centralize power, either assassinate them, arrest them, force them out of politics, or get the fuck out of the country.

After reading that and thinking about it, I'm probably too nostalgic for Zimbabwe seeing as I'm looking over alot of its faults. Hell it's hard not to want to live in your home country and I'll probably still be heading back in a number of years.

Depends on the dictatorship.

I have a soft spot for China, and I could live with it. If it was something like Chile under Pinochet, I'd be fine with it, since it isn't a dictatorship if you're right-wing as you have nothing to fear as I do.

Spoken like someone who's never had to fear for there life from the state.

Why would I fear for my life from a state which I politically agree with? What do I have to fear?

Ultra right wingers have their entire freedom to lose in Germany, and ultra left wingers have their entire freedom to lose in Hungary. Perhaps not life, but what difference is there. If you agree with the politics of the regime you're fine. Or in some cases like Franco's Spain, you're more than fine.

No state has true freedom of speech, just varying degrees of crackdown on wrongthink and varying sizes of the overton window.

There's absolutely no reason for me to fear his regime, let alone leave the country.