NationStates

Nova Corina wrote:When the government starts to persecute people who don't share the same beliefs as the government, that would be a good time to leave.

This.

Pretty much I would fucking leave my home country if my government started persecuting people for any reason that is inhumane and unlawful. Mainly because I be pretty fucking worried that I be one of the persecuted people.

Frievolk wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:They have nuclear weapons dude. It’s pretty much a know fact

It's less a known fact and more an open secret tbh. How else would they actually implement the Samson Option?

Well there is no proof the Samson option, at least as widely publicized, actually exists.
More likely it is more a massive retaliation (against the attackers) rather than “destroy everything and everyone” which Israel cannot do anyways (while it certainly has nuclear weapons it does not have that many).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Though it is difficult to make any certain statements as Israel uses a calculated ambiguity nuclear doctrine.

Still the only ones stating it should involve destroying the entire world are private citizens who grossly exaggerate the power of nuclear weapons, not the Israel government.

I can share another true story, Voltaire the rich upper class Padrino of the family in Cuba, once told me, we were ready willing and able to support and help Fidel, but he turned against us, nationalized our businesses, exiled and imprisoned us. Voltaire the same one who spent x numbers of years in prison for trying to leave Cuba illegally on a raft with his wife and two young daughters, his wife was placed under house arrest because of thier two young daughters.

The raft was built secretly on a farm near the coast, A member of the family who was to accompany him on the raft told Voltaire a few days before, I so x who was also supposed to join them on the raft, and he seemed very nervous, I think he told on us, dont go, but Voltaire did not listen to him, and when they set sail on the raft their was the coast guard waiting for them, he went to prision for x numbers of years and his wife was placed under house arrest because of their two young daughters.

Never.
You're supposed to stay until you die

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Never.
You're supposed to stay until you die

Or until the weather gets so unbareable you decide to move to Oz, Polynesia or the Caribbean.

Never, because emigration has been outlawed.

Moskochev wrote:Never, because emigration has been outlawed.

That doesn't make emigration impossible. Hell, the Berlin Wall had machine guns to shoot people climbing over it and even that didn't stop emigration.

Moskochev wrote:Never, because emigration has been outlawed.

Not all dictatorships outlaw emigration. Most allow it, even if they often restrict it.

Emigration can often help a dictatorship get rid of people considered “undesirable” without the bad optics of doing it via another way.

And as another poster pointed out you can still try to leave. And sometimes still succeed.

Page wrote:

Moskochev wrote:Never, because emigration has been outlawed.

That doesn't make emigration impossible. Hell, the Berlin Wall had machine guns to shoot people climbing over it and even that didn't stop emigration.

It did not stop all emigration true.
It did massively reduce emigration however.

The New California Republic wrote:

The Slightly Madlands wrote:I don't really think you can make any non selfish argument for fleeing your nation, unless you have a family to look after, you should stand and fight.

There can be. The person that is fleeing might be involved in work that aids the regime, so fleeing might actually help others considerably.

Good point.

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Exactly. Don't run away. Fix the problem.

Big Jim P wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Exactly. Don't run away. Fix the problem.

It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.

Kubra wrote:

Big Jim P wrote:
Exactly. Don't run away. Fix the problem.

It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.

So? Better to die fighting than running.

Big Jim P wrote:

Kubra wrote: It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.

So? Better to die fighting than running.

if it were the case that it were so easy, we would have never conceived of the word "rout".

I don't think I'll leave, I got roots here, I'll die here. This is my home.

I'm no internet tough guy, if I fight it probably won't be very successful, that's okay. I'm not leaving.

My people have survived murder, theft and persecution here before.

When the way you look, act, and what you believe are being sidelined and ostracized by the majority OR in some implicit or explicit way these things are encoded in law.

Addition: IFF things are somehow truly beyond your control and there is simply no more fight to be fought AND the above is occurring to you/those of your community, then maybe it's time to get out. Your self preservation matters more for you and those you share commonalities with, so you may one day, take back what was lost. Know when to fold them but always keep justice in mind. Play with courage, not with recklessness.

Mushet wrote:I don't think I'll leave, I got roots here, I'll die here. This is my home.

My people have survived murder, theft and persecution here before.

i praise you, i think you are right, if you wish it. about me, i ll try to flee and won t fight. each doing what he she unconstrained feels, is the better.

not regarding your country, i don t know about, i was saying as a principle

Big Jim P wrote:

Kubra wrote: It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.

So? Better to die fighting than running.

I agree. I would rather die fighting, with the knowledge that I was trying to fix the problem, then live with the knowledge that I ran and abandoned my country.

Kubra wrote:

Big Jim P wrote:
So? Better to die fighting than running.

if it were the case that it were so easy, we would have never conceived of the word "rout".

Not seeing how that's relevant, since Jim's sentiment is shared by pretty much every rebel, insurgent, and guerilla in the world.

If anything, routing proves that it's better to fight and die than to run.

The sooner, the better.

Unithonia wrote:

Tokora wrote:You always hear that you have to stay in the country to vote in the next election, but what about when that election is either rigged or never comes. What about when any kind of revolution is doomed to failure? Under what circumstances is it finally acceptable to abandon a country sliding into a dictatorship?

Mind you I don't honestly believe that America is that bad yet, but as I watch Brazil, Turkey, and central Europe I need to know when it's finally time to abandon ship.

Personally I think it's time to leave when your group is too small to have a chance of winning at all anymore.

When Bernie or Ocasio-Cortez is elected, if you are a private business owner like my uncle. Trust me, there's no such thing as a democratic socialist.

Sig checks out lol

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Because we've only got one life to live and sometimes it ain't worth losing, even for a good cause.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Says the guy with an IRA member for a flag.

Any proper American supports the destruction of the UK and a 32 county republic.

me_ira

Liriena wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Because we've only got one life to live and sometimes it ain't worth losing, even for a good cause.

Are bullets traversing your body actually painful?


A question I keep asking myself many times...

Liriena wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Because we've only got one life to live and sometimes it ain't worth losing, even for a good cause.

Also depends on how much one values the cause in comparison with, y'know, their entire existence. In the hypothetical scenario the US ever became completely dictatorial, I'm not sure if I'd leave. Part of me would want to just take my money and run south of the border, but the patriotic side of me would make me inclined to stay and potentially fight.

In which case, I'd likely get my ass kicked.