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When is it time to leave a country becoming a dictatorship?

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Southerniva
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Founded: Jun 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Southerniva » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:30 am

Nova Corina wrote:When the government starts to persecute people who don't share the same beliefs as the government, that would be a good time to leave.

This.

Pretty much I would fucking leave my home country if my government started persecuting people for any reason that is inhumane and unlawful. Mainly because I be pretty fucking worried that I be one of the persecuted people.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:49 am

Frievolk wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:They have nuclear weapons dude. It’s pretty much a know fact

It's less a known fact and more an open secret tbh. How else would they actually implement the Samson Option?


Well there is no proof the Samson option, at least as widely publicized, actually exists.
More likely it is more a massive retaliation (against the attackers) rather than “destroy everything and everyone” which Israel cannot do anyways (while it certainly has nuclear weapons it does not have that many).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Though it is difficult to make any certain statements as Israel uses a calculated ambiguity nuclear doctrine.

Still the only ones stating it should involve destroying the entire world are private citizens who grossly exaggerate the power of nuclear weapons, not the Israel government.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater La Habana Cuba and Miami Shores » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 am

I can share another true story, Voltaire the rich upper class Padrino of the family in Cuba, once told me, we were ready willing and able to support and help Fidel, but he turned against us, nationalized our businesses, exiled and imprisoned us. Voltaire the same one who spent x numbers of years in prison for trying to leave Cuba illegally on a raft with his wife and two young daughters, his wife was placed under house arrest because of thier two young daughters.

The raft was built secretly on a farm near the coast, A member of the family who was to accompany him on the raft told Voltaire a few days before, I so x who was also supposed to join them on the raft, and he seemed very nervous, I think he told on us, dont go, but Voltaire did not listen to him, and when they set sail on the raft their was the coast guard waiting for them, he went to prision for x numbers of years and his wife was placed under house arrest because of their two young daughters.

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Internationalist Bastard
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:28 am

Never.
You're supposed to stay until you die
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Izaakia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Izaakia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:15 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Never.
You're supposed to stay until you die


Or until the weather gets so unbareable you decide to move to Oz, Polynesia or the Caribbean.
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Moskochev
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Moskochev » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:17 pm

Never, because emigration has been outlawed.
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Page
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:34 pm

Moskochev wrote:Never, because emigration has been outlawed.


That doesn't make emigration impossible. Hell, the Berlin Wall had machine guns to shoot people climbing over it and even that didn't stop emigration.
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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:34 pm

Moskochev wrote:Never, because emigration has been outlawed.


Not all dictatorships outlaw emigration. Most allow it, even if they often restrict it.

Emigration can often help a dictatorship get rid of people considered “undesirable” without the bad optics of doing it via another way.

And as another poster pointed out you can still try to leave. And sometimes still succeed.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:43 pm

Page wrote:
Moskochev wrote:Never, because emigration has been outlawed.


That doesn't make emigration impossible. Hell, the Berlin Wall had machine guns to shoot people climbing over it and even that didn't stop emigration.


It did not stop all emigration true.
It did massively reduce emigration however.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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The Slightly Madlands
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Founded: Mar 01, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Slightly Madlands » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:57 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
The Slightly Madlands wrote:I don't really think you can make any non selfish argument for fleeing your nation, unless you have a family to look after, you should stand and fight.

There can be. The person that is fleeing might be involved in work that aids the regime, so fleeing might actually help others considerably.

Good point.

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Big Jim P
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:43 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?


Exactly. Don't run away. Fix the problem.

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Kubra
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:13 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?


Exactly. Don't run away. Fix the problem.
It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.
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Big Jim P
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Postby Big Jim P » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:26 pm

Kubra wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
Exactly. Don't run away. Fix the problem.
It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.


So? Better to die fighting than running.

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Kubra
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Kubra wrote: It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.


So? Better to die fighting than running.
if it were the case that it were so easy, we would have never conceived of the word "rout".
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Mushet
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Founded: Apr 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Mushet » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:38 am

I don't think I'll leave, I got roots here, I'll die here. This is my home.

I'm no internet tough guy, if I fight it probably won't be very successful, that's okay. I'm not leaving.

My people have survived murder, theft and persecution here before.
Last edited by Mushet on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Senyosu
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Ex-Nation

Postby Senyosu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:45 am

When the way you look, act, and what you believe are being sidelined and ostracized by the majority OR in some implicit or explicit way these things are encoded in law.

Addition: IFF things are somehow truly beyond your control and there is simply no more fight to be fought AND the above is occurring to you/those of your community, then maybe it's time to get out. Your self preservation matters more for you and those you share commonalities with, so you may one day, take back what was lost. Know when to fold them but always keep justice in mind. Play with courage, not with recklessness.
Last edited by Senyosu on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Phoenicaea
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Phoenicaea » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:53 am

Mushet wrote:I don't think I'll leave, I got roots here, I'll die here. This is my home.

My people have survived murder, theft and persecution here before.


i praise you, i think you are right, if you wish it. about me, i ll try to flee and won t fight. each doing what he she unconstrained feels, is the better.

not regarding your country, i don t know about, i was saying as a principle
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:55 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Pax Nerdvana
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Anarchy

Postby Pax Nerdvana » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:20 am

Big Jim P wrote:
Kubra wrote: It's easy to say and lofty to think of, but let's be real: fighting sucks, especially when you're the worst off of the two sides.
Insurgents, y'know, you're expected to have greater casualties. 3:1 is a good day. 1:1 is total victory.


So? Better to die fighting than running.

I agree. I would rather die fighting, with the knowledge that I was trying to fix the problem, then live with the knowledge that I ran and abandoned my country.
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The Empire of Pretantia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:08 am

Kubra wrote:
Big Jim P wrote:
So? Better to die fighting than running.
if it were the case that it were so easy, we would have never conceived of the word "rout".

Not seeing how that's relevant, since Jim's sentiment is shared by pretty much every rebel, insurgent, and guerilla in the world.

If anything, routing proves that it's better to fight and die than to run.
Last edited by The Empire of Pretantia on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:20 am

The sooner, the better.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:24 am

Unithonia wrote:
Tokora wrote:You always hear that you have to stay in the country to vote in the next election, but what about when that election is either rigged or never comes. What about when any kind of revolution is doomed to failure? Under what circumstances is it finally acceptable to abandon a country sliding into a dictatorship?

Mind you I don't honestly believe that America is that bad yet, but as I watch Brazil, Turkey, and central Europe I need to know when it's finally time to abandon ship.

Personally I think it's time to leave when your group is too small to have a chance of winning at all anymore.

When Bernie or Ocasio-Cortez is elected, if you are a private business owner like my uncle. Trust me, there's no such thing as a democratic socialist.

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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:26 am

Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Because we've only got one life to live and sometimes it ain't worth losing, even for a good cause.
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I am:
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Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:28 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Says the guy with an IRA member for a flag.


Any proper American supports the destruction of the UK and a 32 county republic.

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Western Vale Confederacy
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:43 pm

Liriena wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Because we've only got one life to live and sometimes it ain't worth losing, even for a good cause.


Are bullets traversing your body actually painful?


A question I keep asking myself many times...

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Major-Tom
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Major-Tom » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:39 pm

Liriena wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Why leave when you can fight?

Because we've only got one life to live and sometimes it ain't worth losing, even for a good cause.


Also depends on how much one values the cause in comparison with, y'know, their entire existence. In the hypothetical scenario the US ever became completely dictatorial, I'm not sure if I'd leave. Part of me would want to just take my money and run south of the border, but the patriotic side of me would make me inclined to stay and potentially fight.

In which case, I'd likely get my ass kicked.
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