NationStates

Zex wrote:

Medwind wrote:Personally, I don't think I'd leave, I'd probably go about reenlisting, with the expectation of war.

This is the only, objectively, correct answer.
Anyone who has answered anything else besides this has failed.

It all boils down to this: how important is your country to you?

People who don't consider their country very important will jump ship as soon as things start heading south.

People who refuse to ever leave (or simply can't due to limited mobility or poverty) under any condition will be there until they die.

Most folks fall somewhere in the middle. There are no objectively right or wrong answers.

Infected Mushroom wrote:

Heloin wrote:My parents didn't take us out of Zimbabwe till 2009. There is really no point when you get the hell out of Dodge aside from the point you decide you can't take it anymore. Some people leave day one, some people take years, and some never leave. Hell, as soon as I can I'm heading back to my dictatorship even if I hate the government.

Don't go (please consider) =(

You might get hurt. =(

Why do you not like America? Because of the Trump?

Home is where the heart is, Kefka. If one's heart is in Zimbabwe, to Zimbabwe they will return one day.

Go where your heart says you ought to be. Just stay safe.

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:If there is ever a war where I am at, and there is a better place that I can reach, and it is worth the risks of the pathway to me, then I will leave. I am not hiding in a barn or abandoned house or the woods if there is a better option. Worst case scenario, I commit suicide to escape, if able, I will write a diary of it.

If by some extremely unlikely chance, there is a leader who wants to kill or prohibit me, I will do whatever I can to go.

I am going to say this as kindly as I physically can... so that your feelings aren't hurt, and the mods don't attempt to censor, or punish me. Which is one of the things you are all so afraid of, funnily enough. You are cowardly at best, and I question your manhood at worst, that is, assuming you are a man. You disappoint me, and, I do not even know you. I am sorry if these typed words hurt your delicate sensibilities. No, this is not an attempt to flame or troll, even though it will be taken as such, this is me exercising my freedom of speech, to voice my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Better yourself, cowardice is not an option, it is disgusting to me. If you wish to ban me for speaking my mind, then do as you will, I don't regret it. Please do not respond to me, I will not respond back, I have no interest in carrying a conversation with you, as I know it will go nowhere, and likely get the mods more incensed, as they are also soft, sheltered people imho. This was not an attempt to start an argument, even though it was disrespectful, I just physically cannot respect a coward,.. I am sorry, but I can't,... and yes I had to speak up.

Krasny-Volny wrote:

Zex wrote:This is the only, objectively, correct answer.
Anyone who has answered anything else besides this has failed.

It all boils down to this: how important is your country to you?

People who don't consider their country very important will jump ship as soon as things start heading south.

People who refuse to ever leave (or simply can't due to limited mobility or poverty) under any condition will be there until they die.

Most folks fall somewhere in the middle. There are no objectively right or wrong answers.

If your country is not important to you, I do not even know what to say to you. Well, actually, that's not true, I'd say extremely hateful things to you IRL, and definitely throw hands with you on the spot if you disrespected mine.

Edit: I just want to say,... I regret coming back onto these forums, I remember now why I was a neo Nazi as a child, which was in part why I was kicked out of middle school. (and they are the ones who oppress you lmao) I cannot tell you how much anger, hate, and, rage I feel in my heart when I hear these soft, weak, good for nothing, effeminate, cowardly, so called "men" openly flaunt their pacifism, and cowardice like it's normal, natural, and, ok. It's not! At least imo. I have been a warrior since birth, talking about joining the military from the age of around four, (give or take) and more specifically, the infantry by 8. Tried to get my mom to sign for me at 17, she refused, and I grew up without a father, so there was no one else who could sign, as I was a minor. I had to wait until the age of 18. It disgusts me to hear what I perceive to be weakness. I just cannot stand it, it physically sickens me. I say this not to put myself above anyone else, but to explain why I am so angry, so that you might understand to some extent, however, I know, that the people I am talking about will likely never understand me, as they are a different breed.

Medwind wrote:

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:If there is ever a war where I am at, and there is a better place that I can reach, and it is worth the risks of the pathway to me, then I will leave. I am not hiding in a barn or abandoned house or the woods if there is a better option. Worst case scenario, I commit suicide to escape, if able, I will write a diary of it.

If by some extremely unlikely chance, there is a leader who wants to kill or prohibit me, I will do whatever I can to go.

I am going to say this as kindly as I physically can... so that your feelings aren't hurt, and the mods don't attempt to censor, or punish me. Which is one of the things you are all so afraid of, funnily enough. You are cowardly at best, and I question your manhood at worst, that is, assuming you are a man. You disappoint me, and, I do not even know you. I am sorry if these typed words hurt your delicate sensibilities. No, this is not an attempt to flame or troll, even though it will be taken as such, this is me exercising my freedom of speech, to voice my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Better yourself, cowardice is not an option, it is disgusting to me. If you wish to ban me for speaking my mind, then do as you will, I don't regret it. Please do not respond to me, I will not respond back, I have no interest in carrying a conversation with you, as I know it will go nowhere, and likely get the mods more incensed, as they are also soft, sheltered people imho. This was not an attempt to start an argument, even though it was disrespectful, I just physically cannot respect a coward,.. I am sorry, but I can't,... and yes I had to speak up.

Every man would be a coward if he dared.

US-SSR wrote:

Medwind wrote:
I am going to say this as kindly as I physically can... so that your feelings aren't hurt, and the mods don't attempt to censor, or punish me. Which is one of the things you are all so afraid of, funnily enough. You are cowardly at best, and I question your manhood at worst, that is, assuming you are a man. You disappoint me, and, I do not even know you. I am sorry if these typed words hurt your delicate sensibilities. No, this is not an attempt to flame or troll, even though it will be taken as such, this is me exercising my freedom of speech, to voice my opinion, take it for what it's worth. Better yourself, cowardice is not an option, it is disgusting to me. If you wish to ban me for speaking my mind, then do as you will, I don't regret it. Please do not respond to me, I will not respond back, I have no interest in carrying a conversation with you, as I know it will go nowhere, and likely get the mods more incensed, as they are also soft, sheltered people imho. This was not an attempt to start an argument, even though it was disrespectful, I just physically cannot respect a coward,.. I am sorry, but I can't,... and yes I had to speak up.

Every man would be a coward if he dared.

Sure, whatever you say.

Edit: “We despise and abhor the bully, the brawler, the oppressor, whether in private or public life, but we despise no less the coward and the voluptuary. No man is worth calling a man who will not fight rather than submit to infamy or see those that are dear to him suffer wrong.” ― Theodore Roosevelt

Edit #2 In this situation:
The bully: the people who will inevitably try to silence me. IE: report me for perceived slights.
The Brawler: me because I'm a violent dude.
The oppressor: mods because you're job is to oppress people, while under the guise of PC.
The coward: You all should know who you are.


Thank you all for inspiring hate in my heart with your leftism, pacisfism, and pro PC outlook, this has been the first time in years that I screamed SIEG HEIL & HH! You all fill me with disgust for my fellow human being, just for being who you are,... thank you.

Depends on the people I love and what they want to do. If they want to be safe somewhere else, then I will come with them somewhere else. If they want to stay and fight, or if I'm alone, then I become an insurgent.

Tokora wrote:You always hear that you have to stay in the country to vote in the next election, but what about when that election is either rigged or never comes. What about when any kind of revolution is doomed to failure? Under what circumstances is it finally acceptable to abandon a country sliding into a dictatorship?

Mind you I don't honestly believe that America is that bad yet, but as I watch Brazil, Turkey, and central Europe I need to know when it's finally time to abandon ship.

Personally I think it's time to leave when your group is too small to have a chance of winning at all anymore.

But then the Libertarians would have nowhere to go

Shofercia wrote:

Tokora wrote:You always hear that you have to stay in the country to vote in the next election, but what about when that election is either rigged or never comes. What about when any kind of revolution is doomed to failure? Under what circumstances is it finally acceptable to abandon a country sliding into a dictatorship?

Mind you I don't honestly believe that America is that bad yet, but as I watch Brazil, Turkey, and central Europe I need to know when it's finally time to abandon ship.

Personally I think it's time to leave when your group is too small to have a chance of winning at all anymore.

But then the Libertarians would have nowhere to go

They could always go to Aleppo.

well if i was smart and had easy means readily available, i'd have left the u.s. for canada or new zealand decades ago.

for a person of less then average means, there is little else we can do, that to cross our fingers, hope,
and participate in the political process, in whatever ways are either safe enough or we are willing to risk or sacrifice ourselves for.

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:If there is ever a war where I am at, and there is a better place that I can reach, and it is worth the risks of the pathway to me, then I will leave. I am not hiding in a barn or abandoned house or the woods if there is a better option. Worst case scenario, I commit suicide to escape, if able, I will write a diary of it.

If by some extremely unlikely chance, there is a leader who wants to kill or prohibit me, I will do whatever I can to go.

It’s pretty sad that you would commit suicide instead of fighting the oppressors. If a fascist dictatorship took power in the US I’m good as dead. Why do I give them the pleasure of knowing that they drove me to kill myself? Why should I do that when I can fight them and make their lives hell.

You are worth more alive than dead.

Medwind wrote:

Krasny-Volny wrote:
It all boils down to this: how important is your country to you?

People who don't consider their country very important will jump ship as soon as things start heading south.

People who refuse to ever leave (or simply can't due to limited mobility or poverty) under any condition will be there until they die.

Most folks fall somewhere in the middle. There are no objectively right or wrong answers.

If your country is not important to you, I do not even know what to say to you. Well, actually, that's not true, I'd say extremely hateful things to you IRL, and definitely throw hands with you on the spot if you disrespected mine.

Edit: I just want to say,... I regret coming back onto these forums, I remember now why I was a neo Nazi as a child, which was in part why I was kicked out of middle school. (and they are the ones who oppress you lmao) I cannot tell you how much anger, hate, and, rage I feel in my heart when I hear these soft, weak, good for nothing, effeminate, cowardly, so called "men" openly flaunt their pacifism, and cowardice like it's normal, natural, and, ok. It's not! At least imo. I have been a warrior since birth, talking about joining the military from the age of around four, (give or take) and more specifically, the infantry by 8. Tried to get my mom to sign for me at 17, she refused, and I grew up without a father, so there was no one else who could sign, as I was a minor. I had to wait until the age of 18. It disgusts me to hear what I perceive to be weakness. I just cannot stand it, it physically sickens me. I say this not to put myself above anyone else, but to explain why I am so angry, so that you might understand to some extent, however, I know, that the people I am talking about will likely never understand me, as they are a different breed.

To die for a country is absurd, it is merely a piece fo land with a pretty cloth thrown over it. In the somewhat unlikely event that muppets like you would ever be in charge of this country I would seek a safe haven, I would never be forced to do something I do not want to do. For me that is the point at which you should leave, the point at which you would be forced to do something unreasonable or face extreme punishment.

Major-Tom wrote:

Shofercia wrote:
But then the Libertarians would have nowhere to go

They could always go to Aleppo.

Libertarians not wanting to get into the Middle Eastern mess is not the same as saying that it's an awesome region.

Izaakia wrote:

Medwind wrote:
If your country is not important to you, I do not even know what to say to you. Well, actually, that's not true, I'd say extremely hateful things to you IRL, and definitely throw hands with you on the spot if you disrespected mine.

Edit: I just want to say,... I regret coming back onto these forums, I remember now why I was a neo Nazi as a child, which was in part why I was kicked out of middle school. (and they are the ones who oppress you lmao) I cannot tell you how much anger, hate, and, rage I feel in my heart when I hear these soft, weak, good for nothing, effeminate, cowardly, so called "men" openly flaunt their pacifism, and cowardice like it's normal, natural, and, ok. It's not! At least imo. I have been a warrior since birth, talking about joining the military from the age of around four, (give or take) and more specifically, the infantry by 8. Tried to get my mom to sign for me at 17, she refused, and I grew up without a father, so there was no one else who could sign, as I was a minor. I had to wait until the age of 18. It disgusts me to hear what I perceive to be weakness. I just cannot stand it, it physically sickens me. I say this not to put myself above anyone else, but to explain why I am so angry, so that you might understand to some extent, however, I know, that the people I am talking about will likely never understand me, as they are a different breed.

To die for a country is absurd, it is merely a piece fo land with a pretty cloth thrown over it. In the somewhat unlikely event that muppets like you would ever be in charge of this country I would seek a safe haven, I would never be forced to do something I do not want to do. For me that is the point at which you should leave, the point at which you would be forced to do something unreasonable or face extreme punishment.

A country is your home. Would you not want to defend your home from invaders? The US is the only place I know, yes I’ve been elsewhere but the US is home. Why would I not want to stay and free her from the oppressors

Nolo gap wrote:well if i was smart and had easy means readily available, i'd have left the u.s. for canada or new zealand decades ago.

for a person of less then average means, there is little else we can do, that to cross our fingers, hope,
and participate in the political process, in whatever ways are either safe enough or we are willing to risk or sacrifice ourselves for.

Or start blowing shit up. If the government is oppressive then there’s no reason to respect its authority.

Borinsa wrote:

Zex wrote:N E V E R

I’d say it should depend on your connection to your nation.

If your family has lived there for thousands of years, you should probably stick with it...

If your ancestors were recent settlers or immigrants that connection isn’t there.

My ancestors have lived in North America long before the US and the colonies where ever a thing. There’s no reason for me to leave

Shofercia wrote:

Major-Tom wrote:
They could always go to Aleppo.

Libertarians not wanting to get into the Middle Eastern mess is not the same as saying that it's an awesome region.

It was a retro, perhaps ill-conceived reference, to Gary Johnson's 2016 gaffe on Aleppo.

Thermodolia wrote:

Izaakia wrote:
To die for a country is absurd, it is merely a piece fo land with a pretty cloth thrown over it. In the somewhat unlikely event that muppets like you would ever be in charge of this country I would seek a safe haven, I would never be forced to do something I do not want to do. For me that is the point at which you should leave, the point at which you would be forced to do something unreasonable or face extreme punishment.

A country is your home. Would you not want to defend your home from invaders? The US is the only place I know, yes I’ve been elsewhere but the US is home. Why would I not want to stay and free her from the oppressors

You’re assuming your nation is on the right side of history, which is different, to fight for liberty is a good reason. But if you’re German in the 1930s and 1940s, would you not hold your morals over your nation, because your nation is in the wrong.

Unithonia wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:I don't trust you.

Hey look, the Socialist
Alright, let's talk.
Do you know what Socialism is? If so, please, explain your definition to me.

You clearly don't.

Unithonia wrote:

Heloin wrote:You clearly don't.

I do. Socialism is the ownership/outlaw of all private industry, instead being controlled by the State. Please, tell me how that's not Authoritarian. Tell me how that improves quality of life. Tell me how that wouldn't put millions of Americans out of jobs.

Swing and a miss.

Not every socialist is a state socialist for one thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... e_Alliance

Izaakia wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:A country is your home. Would you not want to defend your home from invaders? The US is the only place I know, yes I’ve been elsewhere but the US is home. Why would I not want to stay and free her from the oppressors

You’re assuming your nation is on the right side of history, which is different, to fight for liberty is a good reason. But if you’re German in the 1930s and 1940s, would you not hold your morals over your nation, because your nation is in the wrong.

I’m not assuming anything. If I was a German in the 1930s I’d still fight the oppressors even moreso. I’m Jewish. The German government would want me dead.

Never underestimate a man who has nothing to lose

Izaakia wrote:

Medwind wrote:
If your country is not important to you, I do not even know what to say to you. Well, actually, that's not true, I'd say extremely hateful things to you IRL, and definitely throw hands with you on the spot if you disrespected mine.

Edit: I just want to say,... I regret coming back onto these forums, I remember now why I was a neo Nazi as a child, which was in part why I was kicked out of middle school. (and they are the ones who oppress you lmao) I cannot tell you how much anger, hate, and, rage I feel in my heart when I hear these soft, weak, good for nothing, effeminate, cowardly, so called "men" openly flaunt their pacifism, and cowardice like it's normal, natural, and, ok. It's not! At least imo. I have been a warrior since birth, talking about joining the military from the age of around four, (give or take) and more specifically, the infantry by 8. Tried to get my mom to sign for me at 17, she refused, and I grew up without a father, so there was no one else who could sign, as I was a minor. I had to wait until the age of 18. It disgusts me to hear what I perceive to be weakness. I just cannot stand it, it physically sickens me. I say this not to put myself above anyone else, but to explain why I am so angry, so that you might understand to some extent, however, I know, that the people I am talking about will likely never understand me, as they are a different breed.

To die for a country is absurd, it is merely a piece fo land with a pretty cloth thrown over it. In the somewhat unlikely event that muppets like you would ever be in charge of this country I would seek a safe haven, I would never be forced to do something I do not want to do. For me that is the point at which you should leave, the point at which you would be forced to do something unreasonable or face extreme punishment.

Muppets, lmao, believe what you want, but when did I say that I would have you forced to do anything? I just said that I can not respect a coward, and that I'd stick with my country through thick, and thin, no matter what. I don't have to respect you, my opinion of you changes nothing, I didn't say I'd hold a gun to your head to force you into anything. We can't use people like you in the military, there are people who want out, and, make for terrible soldiers even in our current volunteer forces, why would I want an unpatriotic coward at my side who was forced to be there in a gunfight? As you said, you'd have to gtfo of our country if you didn't want to sacrifice, and conform under a dictatorship, not that it will ever happen imo.

Medwind wrote:

Izaakia wrote:
To die for a country is absurd, it is merely a piece fo land with a pretty cloth thrown over it. In the somewhat unlikely event that muppets like you would ever be in charge of this country I would seek a safe haven, I would never be forced to do something I do not want to do. For me that is the point at which you should leave, the point at which you would be forced to do something unreasonable or face extreme punishment.

Muppets, lmao, believe what you want, but when did I say that I would have you forced to do anything? I just said that I can not respect a coward, and that I'd stick with my country through thick, and thin, no matter what. I don't have to respect you, my opinion of you changes nothing, I didn't say I'd hold a gun to your head to force you into anything. We can't use people like you in the military, there are people who want out, and, make for terrible soldiers even in our current volunteer forces, why would I want an unpatriotic coward at my side who was forced to be there in a gunfight? As you said, you'd have to gtfo of our country if you didn't want to sacrifice, and conform under a dictatorship, not that it will ever happen imo.

Calm down dude. If the US had a dictatorship the last thing I’d do is join the military.

Thermodolia wrote:

Medwind wrote:

Muppets, lmao, believe what you want, but when did I say that I would have you forced to do anything? I just said that I can not respect a coward, and that I'd stick with my country through thick, and thin, no matter what. I don't have to respect you, my opinion of you changes nothing, I didn't say I'd hold a gun to your head to force you into anything. We can't use people like you in the military, there are people who want out, and, make for terrible soldiers even in our current volunteer forces, why would I want an unpatriotic coward at my side who was forced to be there in a gunfight? As you said, you'd have to gtfo of our country if you didn't want to sacrifice, and conform under a dictatorship, not that it will ever happen imo.

Calm down dude. If the US had a dictatorship the last thing I’d do is join the military.

You do you, I'll do me.

Take a look at Bangladesh.The elections were obviously rigged,and the opposition weren't even allowed to campaign......