The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice. Is Chris

[GnosticChristian]

My understanding has always been that the value of the sacrifice of Jesus is in that it was a selfless act. The idea is not that you have a good child and a bad child, through the concept of the trinity Jesus is God, so it is more akin to a parent choosing to bear the punishment for the actions of their child. In that scenario, the parent is giving of them-self so that their child may live.

For God so loved the world they he gave his only begotten Son
and for this reason I have given you the right to be called the Sons and Daughters of God

So it was Jesus the Son and not God the Father who was crucified for the sins of His children (indeed Jesus' last words on the cross are "Father Why have you abandoned me". Jesus is also the Son of Man to me it suggest that Man had to pay the blood price for the sins of Man

If God loved the world, he would not have unjustly condemned us and would just have forgiven us outright.

Regards
DL

[Holy Tedalonia]

Assuming jesus is real, and god is real etc. Then jesus ultimately went to heaven. If you consider it, the body jesus had, was nothing more than a tool to spread the word and sacrifice his flesh. And assuming the text is real, experiencing bliss in heaven as well as others in heaven.

The lesson is greater good. Jesus had nothing to lose for being killed (again assuming gods real) and did the ultimate sacrifice for our benefit.

Sacrifice is when someone gives up something of value to another.

As you say, Jesus had nothing to lose, especially if he did not stay dead, so no lose for him means no gain for his vile father who demanded the sacrifice, so no real sacrifice existed.

Regards
DL

I mean every life has value, and jesus's life did have a substantial amount of value as he would bring the word of god. Its however a thing to note that Jesus' s sacrifice was painful, but ultimately for the greater good, as those who did wrong no longer have to be subject to their sins.

[GnosticChristian]

Egalitarian??

What kind of Christian are you?

If egalitarian, Yahweh would not have created a hell for those he found un-egalitarian.

You do not seem to know your bible much for a guy who reads his myth literally.

Christianity is about as egalitarian as Islam.

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Qur'an 8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: `Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Regards
DL

I'm sorry, do you think that the Bible happened all at once, in a timeless void? In the beginning there was nothing, and then God created the world. Onto the world he added creatures and then as his last act in that regard, he created man to watch over the creatures. And then he created Eve to assist Adam in safeguarding the living things - just as Adam would watch over her. Do you think that you cannot extrapolate that, if there had been other families, they would have all had an essentially identical obligation to care for one another and keep an eternal peace between one another, a peace ultimately founded on man's innocence without the taint of the Fruit of Knowledge?

This was first in a chronological sequence of historical events. You do not think it is egalitarian?

Do not be stupid enough to believe in talking serpents and donkeys.

I wanted to discuss morals and not get into this garbage side road, but if you that much of an immature reader and insist.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

[GnosticChristian]

That is one of the many things I dislike. That is mostly why I am a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL

Why do you call yourself a Gnostic Christian if you hate Christianity so much?

Because of tradition and the fact and truth of the saying that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. It also suits my personality style almost to a T.

The inquisitions ended a lot of better creeds than Christianity and mine was the best and remains the best ideology that I have found to date.

If you know of a better one, I am all ears as that is what esoteric ecumenists like me search for perpetually so as not to become idol worshipers like Christians and Muslims.

We see how well that has worked for the world. Poorly.

Regards
DL

[GnosticChristian]

Sacrifice is when someone gives up something of value to another.

As you say, Jesus had nothing to lose, especially if he did not stay dead, so no lose for him means no gain for his vile father who demanded the sacrifice, so no real sacrifice existed.

Regards
DL

I mean every life has value, and jesus's life did have a substantial amount of value as he would bring the word of god. Its however a thing to note that Jesus' s sacrifice was painful, but ultimately for the greater good, as those who did wrong no longer have to be subject to their sins.

Which means Jesus breaking the law he said he came to fulfil.

Jesus would not do that just so Christian who have no sense of justice could get a get out of hell free card.

You do not seem to want to believe your own bible. Perhaps a Bishop telling you will put some moral sense in your immoral mind.

Bishop John Shelby Spong: Why Atonement Theology will Kill Christianity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

Regards
DL

[Xmara]

Why do you call yourself a Gnostic Christian if you hate Christianity so much?

Because of tradition and the fact and truth of the saying that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. It also suits my personality style almost to a T.

The inquisitions ended a lot of better creeds than Christianity and mine was the best and remains the best ideology that I have found to date.

If you know of a better one, I am all ears as that is what esoteric ecumenists like me search for perpetually so as not to become idol worshipers like Christians and Muslims.

We see how well that has worked for the world. Poorly.

Regards
DL

You sound more like an anti-theist to me, but that’s just my opinion.

Also there’s good Christians who aren’t gnostic.

And finally, you don’t have to end all of your posts with “regards DL.” You’re posting on a web forum, not writing a letter to a potential employer. You can be a bit less formal.

[Holy Tedalonia]

I mean every life has value, and jesus's life did have a substantial amount of value as he would bring the word of god. Its however a thing to note that Jesus' s sacrifice was painful, but ultimately for the greater good, as those who did wrong no longer have to be subject to their sins.

Which means Jesus breaking the law he said he came to fulfil.

Jesus would not do that just so Christian who have no sense of justice could get a get out of hell free card.

You do not seem to want to believe your own bible. Perhaps a Bishop telling you will put some moral sense in your immoral mind.

Bishop John Shelby Spong: Why Atonement Theology will Kill Christianity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

Regards
DL

Believe in my bible? Moral sense? Look pal, I get that your big on theology, but saying I dont believe in my bible is a stretch, furthermore to question my morality. Look, I- like most other people on this thread, arent as theological as you. Surely we can improve are underdtanding, and likely should, but your thread isnt going to draw a bunch professional theologists.

It might be better to look for people who have the time and the knowledge on theology such as priests rather than getting opinions on forums. Afterall, they are paid to think about these deep thinking questions. If your going to have this question on a forum, you might as well, treat people less informed with respect and not br condescending.

[GnosticChristian]

Because of tradition and the fact and truth of the saying that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. It also suits my personality style almost to a T.

The inquisitions ended a lot of better creeds than Christianity and mine was the best and remains the best ideology that I have found to date.

If you know of a better one, I am all ears as that is what esoteric ecumenists like me search for perpetually so as not to become idol worshipers like Christians and Muslims.

We see how well that has worked for the world. Poorly.

Regards
DL

You sound more like an anti-theist to me, but that’s just my opinion.

Also there’s good Christians who aren’t gnostic.

And finally, you don’t have to end all of your posts with “regards DL.” You’re posting on a web forum, not writing a letter to a potential employer. You can be a bit less formal.

It is a business memo writing habit that I like.

There are no Christians that are good as they all who fly the cross support a homophobic and misogynous religion that is far from moral. What you call good Christians would either change their policies or move to a moral religion.

I do give some goodness to the far left leaning Christian religions who ignore the bulk of their bible or actually follow it the way it was meant to be followed. That being to follow the Golden Rule regardless of what their lying preachers tell them.

As to me being anti-theist. If you are not, then you ignore the harm religions do to us and are not living by the Golden rule.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Regards
DL

[GnosticChristian]

Which means Jesus breaking the law he said he came to fulfil.

Jesus would not do that just so Christian who have no sense of justice could get a get out of hell free card.

You do not seem to want to believe your own bible. Perhaps a Bishop telling you will put some moral sense in your immoral mind.

Bishop John Shelby Spong: Why Atonement Theology will Kill Christianity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

Regards
DL

Believe in my bible? Moral sense? Look pal, I get that your big on theology, but saying I dont believe in my bible is a stretch, furthermore to question my morality. Look, I- like most other people on this thread, arent as theological as you. Surely we can improve are underdtanding, and likely should, but your thread isnt going to draw a bunch professional theologists.

It might be better to look for people who have the time and the knowledge on theology such as priests rather than getting opinions on forums. Afterall, they are paid to think about these deep thinking questions. If your going to have this question on a forum, you might as well, treat people less informed with respect and not br condescending.

I go where I choose and as you can see, Christians of all shades need all the guidance they can get as their moral sense is quite corrupted.

Those who wish to stay in their comfy immoral thinking always wish that I went elsewhere.

For evil to grow, all I need do is as you say.

Regards
DL

[Holy Tedalonia]

You sound more like an anti-theist to me, but that’s just my opinion.

Also there’s good Christians who aren’t gnostic.

And finally, you don’t have to end all of your posts with “regards DL.” You’re posting on a web forum, not writing a letter to a potential employer. You can be a bit less formal.

It is a business memo writing habit that I like.

Use a signature then. Less annoying and more efficient.

[quoteThere are no Christians that are good as they all who fly the cross support a homophobic and misogynous religion that is far from moral. What you call good Christians would either change their policies or move to a moral religion.[/quote]
Well, one thing. Misogyny aint inherent in christianity. Sure you got your old testament condescending talk to women, but in the new testament there are some women who played roles more important than some roles men played.

Furthermore, my church may teach against homophobia, but Im so apathetic about it, I really don't care. When it comes done to it. It may be a wrong that may need to be made right, but no point being a asshole over it.

As to me being anti-theist. If you are not, then you ignore the harm religions do to us and are not living by the Golden rule.

It aint religion thats dangerous, but beliefs. Some men and women will do anything to uphold their beliefs. Which makes them dangerous. Religion aint at fault.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies,

Do explain why they are "slave holding" when slavery aint even a thing anymor?

have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions.

Honestly intolerance is inherent to culture nowadays. Even the most tolerant people are intolerant to intolerant people. Misogyny, isnt that widespread save for very traditional churches who wont allow women to take any roles outside that of nuns, and other less relevant roles.

Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Sorry, but christianity spread fairly peacefully throughout the roman empire facing much persecution. Until Charlemagnes exspansions into germany, did the "by the sword" really happened. Even then some conversions were moreso peaceful, than by the sword. The conversions in Norway, Denmark, and Sweden are good examples of that.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

This is "if our founding fathers came back to life" talk. Which is irrelevant.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Ok, we dont need the "ya'll sinners and you should join us the pure and perfect guys," talk

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

I think most religions regard themselves as humane. Makes little difference if you yourself make this claim.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

Whats 'natural' about a god manipulating human society? Rather not natural. Supernatural can be bad, sure. But not all of it.

Regards
DL

Please make a sig

[Holy Tedalonia]

Believe in my bible? Moral sense? Look pal, I get that your big on theology, but saying I dont believe in my bible is a stretch, furthermore to question my morality. Look, I- like most other people on this thread, arent as theological as you. Surely we can improve are underdtanding, and likely should, but your thread isnt going to draw a bunch professional theologists.

It might be better to look for people who have the time and the knowledge on theology such as priests rather than getting opinions on forums. Afterall, they are paid to think about these deep thinking questions. If your going to have this question on a forum, you might as well, treat people less informed with respect and not br condescending.

I go where I choose and as you can see, Christians of all shades need all the guidance they can get as their moral sense is quite corrupted.

Those who wish to stay in their comfy immoral thinking always wish that I went elsewhere.

For evil to grow, all I need do is as you say.

Regards
DL

If your goal is to convert than honestly just meet them in person, not many can be converted based off some theologist on a forum.

[Xmara]

I go where I choose and as you can see, Christians of all shades need all the guidance they can get as their moral sense is quite corrupted.

Those who wish to stay in their comfy immoral thinking always wish that I went elsewhere.

For evil to grow, all I need do is as you say.

Regards
DL

If your goal is to convert than honestly just meet them in person, not many can be converted based off some theologist on a forum.

Insulting them and telling them how horrible they are doesn't help...

[Reikoku]

DL is this person who posts on various forums for like ten years now about how Gnosticism is true Christianity, and how modern Christianity is a fraud. I've seen people come across him for years now. He just posts the same thing over and over again like a reset button.

[Xmara]

DL is this person who posts on various forums for like ten years now about how Gnosticism is true Christianity, and how modern Christianity is a fraud. I've had people come across him for years now.

Yeah, this is my first encounter with him so I didn't know.

[Salus Maior]

I don't know, is Chris?

[Reploid Productions]

1) As others already noted, we have a Christian Discussion Thread. This post is basically a glorified blog and its argument belongs where it was originally posted; in said Christian Discussion Thread. So, iLock.

2) Hooboy. Putting all the actionable content from GnosticChristian's post history here for convenience, along with a quick breakdown on why it's actionable.

Typical Christian hypocrisy.

<snip>

Have the common decency to speak to why Christianity reversed the moral of the Jewish myth or take your hypocrisy where your interlocutor has your type of I.Q. and debating skills.

Flaming/flamebaiting. You can make your arguments without calling people who disagree with you hypocrites or taking cheap shots at their intelligence and debate skills.

we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do.

Trolling. Statement translates to "All Christians are lazy", aka "all x are y" flavor trolling.

in case you do not have the moral sense to know that.

Flaming/flamebaiting. Statement is a cheap jab that basically implies the other user is immoral and/or too stupid to recognize what is moral.

The discussion starts if you have the moral whit to answer the last question in the O.P.

Cowards can never be moral. Are you a coward?

Flaming/flamebaiting. As above, cheap shot at your opponent's intelligence. The coward line serves no other purpose but to be needlessly inflammatory.

Even todays they continue their low key inquisitions against women and gays with their homophobic and misogynous ways.

Trolling. Statement translates to "all Christians are misogynistic and homophobic" aka "all x are y" flavor trolling. Sweeping generalizations very easily become trolling and are best avoided.

Do not be stupid enough to believe in talking serpents and donkeys.

I wanted to discuss morals and not get into this garbage side road, but if you that much of an immature reader and insist.

Flaming. Again, calling the other person stupid, calling them immature. Attack the argument, NOT the poster.

Perhaps a Bishop telling you will put some moral sense in your immoral mind.

Flaming. Again, calling the other person immoral and implying they do not have sufficient intelligence to be moral .

There are no Christians that are good as they all who fly the cross support a homophobic and misogynous religion that is far from moral.

Trolling. Statement basically reads as "No Christians are good, all Christians are homophobes and misogynists." Blanket statements that serve no purpose but to rile people.

Christians of all shades need all the guidance they can get as their moral sense is quite corrupted.

Trolling. Statement reads as "Christians are corrupt" aka "all x is y" flavor trolling.

Any one of these by itself would probably merit an unofficial warning for a first offense or maybe an official warning. Taken together, it establishes a clear intent to be as needlessly inflammatory and trolling as possible, which is why I am escalating a couple steps up the ladder right out of the gate.

*** GnosticChristian, 1-day ban for trolling/flaming/flamebaiting. ***

You need to review the site rules immediately. If you wish to discuss and debate theology, you are welcome to do so. However, if all you are here to do is pick fights, insult other players and proselytize under a flimsy guise of debate, you will not have a long or fruitful NSG career.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku