100 Years of National Socialism

[Liriena]

Don't be so PC, brah.

I'm not being PC; I'm just telling it how it is.

"I don't like that joke" is not "telling it how it is". It's just a subjective complaint.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

We've now hit a generation of young people who may not have ever known anyone with direct experience of the reality of Nazism. So it is the failed ideology of choice for life's failures looking to say 'I've not got anywhere in life because people are prejudiced against my sincerely held Nazi political beliefs'.

[Settrah]

We've now hit a generation of young people who may not have ever known anyone with direct experience of the reality of Nazism. So it is the failed ideology of choice for life's failures looking to say 'I've not got anywhere in life because people are prejudiced against my sincerely held Nazi political beliefs'.

This has ironic negative side effects for other people though, in that having no direct emotional or personal connection with Nazi Germany means there is a desensitivity to it. Therefore easier to draw faux comparisons to ideologies and movements that a person, or the peers of that person, doesnt/don't agree with. And while certain parties, politicans and representatives have views that are, or could be interpreted as, far right and borderline fascist, to describe them as Nazism is almost insulting to the real victims of that party.

People with a direct experience of Nazism, or awareness of it's impact, are probably less likely to make such overzealous comparisons because they know the reality of how evil it is, and find the comparisons in poor taste.

[Tasuirin]

[Actually, it adds to 16 trillion, but we're hoping to beat that high score once Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.

I fail to see how deaths caused by your ideology is in any way humorous.

Do you think the same of Pinochet helicopter jokes, or jokes about the idea of manifest destiny? Not trying to be snarky, just genuinely curious.

[Four Truths]

You just have to do the math yourself. Of course, the internet won't give it to you. If you add up all of the deaths of people committed by the state over the course of communism's history from Lenin, to Stalin, to Mao, to the Khmer Rouge, to North Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba, you would get a figure that adds approximately to 332 million.

Actually, it adds to 16 trillion, but we're hoping to beat that high score once Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.

Funny how if you said this about the Holocaust people would be up in arms and you'd probably get warned for trolling.

[Settrah]

You just have to do the math yourself. Of course, the internet won't give it to you. If you add up all of the deaths of people committed by the state over the course of communism's history from Lenin, to Stalin, to Mao, to the Khmer Rouge, to North Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba, you would get a figure that adds approximately to 332 million.

Actually, it adds to 16 trillion, but we're hoping to beat that high score once Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.

Gonna need a plaster, because I just cut myself on that edge.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Nazism is a horrible ideology that should stay fucking dead. And anyone who supports it in the modern day needs a few history books thrown at them.

[The Isle of Beithe]

What went wrong with national socialism is an absurd question as it implies that the ideology actually possessed some merit at its start. It didn't though. National socialism was an ideology spawned from fear and wrought with hatred. People in Germany were angry with the outcome of WWI and its social and economic consequences, and national socialism was a response to this -- initially, I'll concede, an understandable response but far from logical in any way.

National socialism was always doomed to fail.

[Painisia]

National Socialism is a scary son of a *****. The ideology's insistence on rabid racialist tribalism is frightening to the average person, even though some Nazis have dropped the race teachings in favor of a nationalism without the Volksgemmeinschaft.I think National Socialism (I use Nazism to refer to its more racialist part) will prove to be seductive towards any right-wing nativist nationalist. The fact that some Traditionalists here are tough enough to admit that they first would have supported Nazism in its first phase, when Drexler founded the NSDAP, proves my assumption that Nazism might have a future.

Ahhh, where did the National Romanticism (without any Pan-*insert nationality*) of the 19th century go? Why couldn't that type of Nationalism prevail?

[Baltenstein]

National Socialism is a scary son of a *****. The ideology's insistence on rabid racialist tribalism is frightening to the average person, even though some Nazis have dropped the race teachings in favor of a nationalism without the Volksgemmeinschaft.I think National Socialism (I use Nazism to refer to its more racialist part) will prove to be seductive towards any right-wing nativist nationalist. The fact that some Traditionalists here are tough enough to admit that they first would have supported Nazism in its first phase, when Drexler founded the NSDAP, proves my assumption that Nazism might have a future.

Ahhh, where did the National Romanticism (without any Pan-*insert nationality*) of the 19th century go? Why couldn't that type of Nationalism prevail?

Because late 19th century Social Darwinism and Scientific Racism.

[Trumptonium1]

Some people use their 15 minutes of fame to do the dumbest things.

[Baltenstein]

Something something, "Jews are evil", or some such nonsense I'm sure.

Adolf Hitler had apparently carved out many exceptions to his regime's antisemitism beyond just his mother's personal physician. Jews that Hitler happened to like, were spared from the Holocaust. I'd think that with most antisemites that either all Jews are bad and there should be no exceptions or if some Jews aren't bad that it doesn't follow that all Jews are bad and consequently, Jews in general shouldn't be persecuted.

Am I wrong in thinking that if it was made public to the party beyond just a tightly controlled Nazi leadership of "higher ups" that this would've undermined Hitler's position in relation to the NSDAP and its ideology?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/wor ... ficer.html

Hypocrisy is a common human trait.

[The New California Republic]

Nazism is a horrible ideology that should stay fucking dead. And anyone who supports it in the modern day needs a few history books thrown at them.

Amen.

[Albydia]

Some people use their 15 minutes of fame to do the dumbest things.

Adolf mein sohn, du bist fuhrer nun. du muss make zukunft fur deutschland. Wollens du build Anti-Soviet Europabund und liberate those enslaved by Stalin. Oder build impossible panzeren und murder millions of potential Slawische allies.

[Torrocca]

Lol @ the 332 million victims of Communism. I'm as anti-Communist as anyone but that's just fucking absurd. Even the commonly cited figure of 100 million is likely too high.

It's not just likely too high, it's verifiably too high as even three of the five original authors of the book itself have stated. Among other things, the book downplays and outright ignores Nazism's responsibility for the vast majority of some 70-85 million people dying because of World War Two, it says that Nazi soldiers killed in a war of extermination against the Slavic people of Eastern Europe that the Nazis themselves started were casualties of Communism, and it treats the gulag system as equivalent to the Holocaust, which systematically murdered some 17 million people in the span of about five years, from 1941 to 1939. That's another thing, if I'm not mistaken, that the book fails to account for.

(Let me make it perfectly clear before I go to this point and get accused of apologia for these despicable regimes: this is not an attempt to downplay or create apologia for their crimes against humanity, it is merely an attempt to straighten out the facts of the matter). Those 70-85 million people dying as a result of World War Two, which was caused by the Nazis and their allies? That happened in only 6-8 years (depending on when you believe the war started) with about 50 million or so directly attributable to the Nazis themselves and the rest attributable to their allies over a period of 6-8 years. That's over 10 million being killed annually in a massive war started by the Nazis and their allies to, among other reasons, completely exterminate entire groups of people like the Jews, Gypsies, and Slavic people. If they won, it's pretty much guaranteed that, at its highest, some 220 million more would've died in Eastern Europe, with whoever being left alive enslaved and worked to death while the Germans turned everything from the French Atlantic coast to the fringes of Siberia into a Nazified hellhole, if they could've stayed united.

On the other hand, even by the Black Book's absurd and easily debunkable estimate of 100 million people dying to Communism (or, much more realistically, authoritarian regimes led by Communists and Socialists whose attempts to actually enact one or both of those ideologies were dubious at best), that's about 1-2 million people dying annually from unnatural causes from a period between 1917 to 1991 (unless, of course, it still counts places like Vietnam and China as Communist (when it's easy as fuck to see that neither are), in which case it'd be 1 million dying from a period between 1917 to today (only if they do do that, of course)). Now, without any doubt at all the fact that people were being killed is atrocious in every way possible, but these two are utterly incomparable in their scope and scale. The only thing that could really be comparable to Nazism's atrocities in terms of scale is the famine that resulted from the Great Leap Forward, which killed upwards between 30 and 55 million people; although equivalent in scale to World War Two's deaths caused directly by the Nazis (both in terms of death count and timeframe), these deaths weren't caused by a regime policy of exterminating millions of people to create a racially superior empire, but by an absolutely horrific case of incompetence and malice.

At the end of the day, basically, it's an incredibly volatile subject that requires plenty of nuances and academic research to get an honest idea of what these regimes did, but it shouldn't ever be done in the light of creating apologia for them. It should be done truthfully, however. No matter what, unless the acts that led to these deaths are equivalent to the Nazi ideas of racial-based extermination to create a racially superior empire, whatever "Communism" (or, more realistically, authoritarian regimes that stated they wanted to create Communism in their countries) did is incomparable to the atrocities of Nazism, despite however horrendous the atrocities of those regimes were themselves. To insinuate otherwise downplays just how horrific and industrialized the entirety of Nazi Germany was toward creating and nearly succeeding at a genocide and a war of extermination against millions of people in less than a decade.

[AnarchoEarthlings]

[quote="Torrocca";p="35136701"]

"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti

Thank you for the reminder Torra

[Western Vale Confederacy]

"Al fascismo no se le discute, se le destruye/Fascism is not discussed, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti

Thank you for the reminder Torra

And she expects to conquer the world with the power of friendships and nice words?

Ironic.

[Merther]

National socialism dragged literally every other far-right ideology into the cesspit of being forever associated with them.

Thanks for ruining it all!

Liberals and leftists now use the term "Nazis" against anything that isn't liberal or left-wing-ish. Maybe people will someday realize that Fascism isn't Nazism, and that Fascism is the only way to save our decaying societies.

[Torrocca]

And she expects to conquer the world with the power of friendships and nice words?

Ironic.

Fascists are excluded from that, friendo.

National socialism dragged literally every other far-right ideology into the cesspit of being forever associated with them.

Thanks for ruining it all!

Liberals and leftists now use the term "Nazis" against anything that isn't liberal or left-wing-ish. Maybe people will someday realize that Fascism isn't Nazism

Fascism sure had a huge propensity for siding right along with Nazism, though.

Almost like they're close enough that the differences between them are superficial and according to their country of origin at best.

and that Fascism is the only way to save our decaying societies.

Fascism's only good for being something to systematically destroy whenever and wherever it crops up.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

National socialism dragged literally every other far-right ideology into the cesspit of being forever associated with them.

Thanks for ruining it all!

Liberals and leftists now use the term "Nazis" against anything that isn't liberal or left-wing-ish. Maybe people will someday realize that Fascism isn't Nazism, and that Fascism is the only way to save our decaying societies.

Eh, as much as I like or acknowledge certain tenets of Italian fascism attractive or sensical, I do not consider fascism itself to be the best for society.

I'd much rather surgically extract its good tenets and incorporate it into my own personal ideology and discard its less palatable aspects than identify with fascism completely.

[Gospel Power]

Those murderers viewed my slavic people as inferior, death to Nazism, death to Hitler!.

[Albydia]

Liberals and leftists now use the term "Nazis" against anything that isn't liberal or left-wing-ish. Maybe people will someday realize that Fascism isn't Nazism, and that Fascism is the only way to save our decaying societies.

Eh, as much as I like or acknowledge certain tenets of Italian fascism attractive or sensical, I do not consider fascism itself to be the best for society.

I'd much rather surgically extract its good tenets and incorporate it into my own personal ideology and discard its less palatable aspects than identify with fascism completely.

I believe in a mixture of fascist economics, federalist constitutionalism, and conservative views on society. I don't like how fascism tried to replace religion with the state, or how they destroyed individual liberty.

[Merther]

Fascism sure had a huge propensity for siding right along with Nazism, though.

Fascism's only good for being something to systematically destroy whenever and wherever it crops up.

As a Fascist, no, we don't even appreciate Nazis. I don't know in which kind of way are you even qualified to say that we see them as equals. Neo nazis are scum and should be destroyed whenever and wherever they pop up. Much like Communism, Anarchism, and all these other ideas that are based on the hatred of your very own people, and that would rather sacrifice stability and peace and replace it by greed and corruption.

Hence North Korea and China, and the Khmer Rouges, and the Soviet Union, and Transnistria, ect, ect.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Ironically enough you could argue North Korea is almost perfectly a National Socialist state, tis odd that more Nazis don't support them.

[Gospel Power]

National socialism dragged literally every other far-right ideology into the cesspit of being forever associated with them.

Thanks for ruining it all!

Liberals and leftists now use the term "Nazis" against anything that isn't liberal or left-wing-ish. Maybe people will someday realize that Fascism isn't Nazism, and that Fascism is the only way to save our decaying societies.

What about traditionalism and monarchy? Europe was a paradise before ww1 and ww2, no communism, no fascism.