100 Years of National Socialism

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I theorize that Nazism is seen as an inspiration for many if not most neo-Fascists because Nazi Germany for better or worse, was the most powerful and successful Fascist totalitarian state in human history in terms of sheer military power and accomplishments- even if Nazi Germany got itself vanquished in the end. Franco's Spain lasted for far longer, but Spain doesn't have the claim to fame of having conquered nearly an entire continent and more.

Franco and the Nazis weren't Fascists.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

Even other sins too. It almost worships money and material good as the final good, allows theft when a man cannot defend his property, will murder without cause merely for profit, and believes that people must work whenever they can, possibility also violating the 5th commandment.

Even if Capitalism has moral or ethical failings, most countries seem to use it for their economic systems to some degree, because it is simply what works in terms of producing national wealth or prosperity and is within human nature. A rich country with surplus money or material resources can provide services for their citizens better than a country that doesn't have a good economy.

If it were so simple to just do away with capitalism, many people would do it. But it isn't so simple to find a superior economic system. It at least rewards individual success and punishes individual failure, assuming the free market has enough competition and enough monopolies are prevented.

The thing is, libertarian socialism has been shot at every time it's been tried. It's like that meme where there's a meeting and some guy gets thrown out the window, but literally. They get attacked by authoritarian 'socialists' and 'liberal' capitalists alike. Libertarian socialism works, as such forms of decentralised organisation not only work in nature, but also in human society. Many organisations are moving towards it to reduce bureaucracy and increase efficiency. Cooperatives are a good example of this, but so is local government and grassroots activism.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I wouldn't say forever given how much they've rebounded since the Cold War ended.

Sorry, but a few 4chan losers waving around tiki torches in some random town isn't "rebounding".

A rally of tens of thousands of people openly flying those symbols very much is. Afaik American national socialism is today more popular than at any other point past 1945, barring maybe the peak of Rockwells popularity way back when.

[Rezmaeristan]

I theorize that Nazism is seen as an inspiration for many if not most neo-Fascists because Nazi Germany for better or worse, was the most powerful and successful Fascist totalitarian state in human history in terms of sheer military power and accomplishments- even if Nazi Germany got itself vanquished in the end. Franco's Spain lasted for far longer, but Spain doesn't have the claim to fame of having conquered nearly an entire continent and more.

Franco and the Nazis weren't Fascists.

Who would you say was, other than Mussolini? The Integralists(both Brazil and Portugal)? The Bolivian Socialist Falange? The Mouvement Populaire de la Revolution? The Baath parties? Gaddafi's Libya? Ilminism? Imperial Japan in the 1920's up to WW2?

Edit: Forgot the Syrian Social Nationalist Party. Though if Nazism isn't Fascism they probably aren't.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

The only good thing national socialists ever did was die.

Now now they also discredited themselves forever

And dragged many other collectivist/populist ideologies with it (Italian fascism, integralism, national syndicalism, etc...)

[Albydia]

Sorry, but a few 4chan losers waving around tiki torches in some random town isn't "rebounding".

A rally of tens of thousands of people openly flying those symbols very much is. Afaik American national socialism is today more popular than at any other point past 1945, barring maybe the peak of Rockwells popularity way back when.

There were like 600 people there, Total. There were probably more /leftypol/ losers than /pol/ losers, given how popular AntiFa is with the kiddies. This means that only around 200 /pol/ losers are actually committed enough to their beliefs to act on them and not just express them in the YouTube comments section.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Franco and the Nazis weren't Fascists.

Who would you say was, other than Mussolini? The Integralists(both Brazil and Portugal)? The Bolivian Socialist Falange? The Mouvement Populaire de la Revolution? The Baath parties? Gaddafi's Libya? Ilminism? Imperial Japan in the 1920's up to WW2?

None. Mussolini was really the only person who ever actually founded a Fascist state, everybody else merely took influence from him without actually emulating his ideals. The Falangists came close to doing so, but then Franco hijacked the civil war from them. Franco himself was not a Falangist, however.

Out of that entire list, I'd say Imperial Japan and the Integralist regime of Portugal were the closest. The furthest would probably be Ba'athism and Gaddafi, as they're both Socialist.

[Albydia]

Who would you say was, other than Mussolini? The Integralists(both Brazil and Portugal)? The Bolivian Socialist Falange? The Mouvement Populaire de la Revolution? The Baath parties? Gaddafi's Libya? Ilminism? Imperial Japan in the 1920's up to WW2?

None. Mussolini was really the only person who ever actually founded a Fascist state, everybody else merely took influence from him without actually emulating his ideals. The Falangists came close to doing so, but then Franco hijacked the civil war from them. Franco himself was not a Falangist, however.

Out of that entire list, I'd say Imperial Japan and the Integralist regime of Portugal were the closest. The furthest would probably be Ba'athism and Gaddafi, as they're both Socialist.

Daily reminder that Muammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein did nothing wrong. Also Bashar Al-Assad is currently occupied doing nothing wrong as we speak.

[Rezmaeristan]

Who would you say was, other than Mussolini? The Integralists(both Brazil and Portugal)? The Bolivian Socialist Falange? The Mouvement Populaire de la Revolution? The Baath parties? Gaddafi's Libya? Ilminism? Imperial Japan in the 1920's up to WW2?

None. Mussolini was really the only person who ever actually founded a Fascist state, everybody else merely took influence from him without actually emulating his ideals. The Falangists came close to doing so, but then Franco hijacked the civil war from them. Franco himself was not a Falangist, however.

Out of that entire list, I'd say Imperial Japan and the Integralist regime of Portugal were the closest. The furthest would probably be Ba'athism and Gaddafi, as they're both Socialist.

What about Mobutu's Zaire?(The MPR) While they did not identify as Fascist, they did identify as Third Positionist and had many characteristics of Fascism.

[Kustonia]

Yes to National Socialism! Sieg Heil!

[Albydia]

None. Mussolini was really the only person who ever actually founded a Fascist state, everybody else merely took influence from him without actually emulating his ideals. The Falangists came close to doing so, but then Franco hijacked the civil war from them. Franco himself was not a Falangist, however.

Out of that entire list, I'd say Imperial Japan and the Integralist regime of Portugal were the closest. The furthest would probably be Ba'athism and Gaddafi, as they're both Socialist.

What about Mobutu's Zaire?(The MPR) While they did not identify as Fascist, they did identify as Third Positionist and had many characteristics of Fascism.

Memes aside, I do believe that Zaire, Syria, Baathist Iraq, and Gaddafi's Libya are closer to SFR Yugoslavia and Peron's Argentina than to Fascist Italy.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

None. Mussolini was really the only person who ever actually founded a Fascist state, everybody else merely took influence from him without actually emulating his ideals. The Falangists came close to doing so, but then Franco hijacked the civil war from them. Franco himself was not a Falangist, however.

Out of that entire list, I'd say Imperial Japan and the Integralist regime of Portugal were the closest. The furthest would probably be Ba'athism and Gaddafi, as they're both Socialist.

Daily reminder that Muammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein did nothing wrong. Also Bashar Al-Assad is currently occupied doing nothing wrong as we speak.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

None. Mussolini was really the only person who ever actually founded a Fascist state, everybody else merely took influence from him without actually emulating his ideals. The Falangists came close to doing so, but then Franco hijacked the civil war from them. Franco himself was not a Falangist, however.

Out of that entire list, I'd say Imperial Japan and the Integralist regime of Portugal were the closest. The furthest would probably be Ba'athism and Gaddafi, as they're both Socialist.

What about Mobutu's Zaire?(The MPR) While they did not identify as Fascist, they did identify as Third Positionist and had many characteristics of Fascism.

Mobutu was primarily concerned with Mobutu; just as Franco was primarily concerned with Franco. Thus nationalism was merely a pretext to consolidate power and nothing less.

[Albydia]

Daily reminder that Muammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein did nothing wrong. Also Bashar Al-Assad is currently occupied doing nothing wrong as we speak.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

My very next post on that topic said "Memes aside".

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Yes to National Socialism! Sieg Heil!

I'll never understand this trend of people thinking evil is cool.

[Oil exporting People]

I probably would have initially supported the Nazis and Hitler, but later rejected them. For Heidegger the point he realized he no longer liked them was the Night of the Long Knives. I admire Edgar Julius Jung, so I would have felt the same way

Agreed.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I hope you're being sarcastic.

My very next post on that topic said "Memes aside".

Well I can't see the future, unfortunately.

[Oil exporting People]

I miss Prussia. It’s borders were so sexy. Now instead we have the border gore that is Eastern Europe

Also agreed. My preferred alternative to interwar Germany would've been the restoration of the Hohenzollerns, under the guidance of the DVNP and the restoration of 1914 borders in the East.

[Lucifersguardian]

Nice. A whole thread where everyone basically,agrees with each other.

National Socialism and the Nazi party, while related are not the same thing.

The party created a homogenous race based idealism founded on the basic tenants of NS. Such as Germany first in economics, in housing, in you name it. They used an economic social experiment as a basis for the everyday running of the country (to create wealth for its people).

It was a pro Aryan party first and for most, the politics didnt matter so much.

NS as a whole has seen a rise in popularity as a whole. They changed the name but populism is basically the same thing. It's a me first at all costs system that ultimately fails because it is limited to those who actually can access (believe in) the system. It leaves free market people locked out. It keeps contradicting authoritarians from having a voice. Etc. It locks in the fears of a very vocal minority (sometimes small, sometimes nearly half) that is afraid of a new day, a new beginning, etc. To be left out of what makes us; us.

NS can work for short periods of time. It can also create vast sums of wealth.

The issue is that every country that dabbles in it hires vain leaders, or paranoid leaders and things just go off tract (faster than most political systems).

No system is fail safe. They all rely on its people to feel comfort in it. When the people abandon the system, it fails. They all do. Eventually.

PS: to be clear, I am not endorsing, or glossing over, or whatever else might be said about that time in history. So much has been stated already. I am just relaying a very short view of the party itself. Not its people. Not its politics. Not its acts.

[Kustonia]

Even other sins too. It almost worships money and material good as the final good, allows theft when a man cannot defend his property, will murder without cause merely for profit, and believes that people must work whenever they can, possibility also violating the 5th commandment.

Even if Capitalism has moral or ethical failings, most countries seem to use it for their economic systems to some degree, because it is simply what works in terms of producing national wealth or prosperity and is within human nature. A rich country with surplus money or material resources can provide services for their citizens better than a country that doesn't have a good economy.

If it were so simple to just do away with capitalism, many people would do it. But it isn't so simple to find a superior economic system. It at least rewards individual success and punishes individual failure, assuming the free market has enough competition and enough monopolies are prevented.

Capitalism and communism have been equally destructive. They are both materialist and egalitarian. The blood will always overcome money, and the forces that seek to replace us will be entirely defeated. The individual is a rootless extension of the crowd, and the individual is the adversary of the natural, organic hierarchy that is "life."

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Yes to National Socialism! Sieg Heil!

How about we say no to genocide instead?

[Albydia]

I miss Prussia. It’s borders were so sexy. Now instead we have the border gore that is Eastern Europe

Also agreed. My preferred alternative to interwar Germany would've been the restoration of the Hohenzollerns, under the guidance of the DVNP and the restoration of 1914 borders in the East.

Poland wasn't going to give up their gateway to the world that easily. I do believe that a sort of early European Union with an Anti-Soviet focus would have fixed this problem.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Even if Capitalism has moral or ethical failings, most countries seem to use it for their economic systems to some degree, because it is simply what works in terms of producing national wealth or prosperity and is within human nature. A rich country with surplus money or material resources can provide services for their citizens better than a country that doesn't have a good economy.

If it were so simple to just do away with capitalism, many people would do it. But it isn't so simple to find a superior economic system. It at least rewards individual success and punishes individual failure, assuming the free market has enough competition and enough monopolies are prevented.

Capitalism and communism have been equally destructive. They are both materialist and egalitarian. The blood will always overcome money, and the forces that seek to replace us will be entirely defeated. The individual is a rootless extension of the crowd, and the individual is the adversary of the natural, organic hierarchy that is "life."

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

[Azurius]

100 years ago today, in a Munich hotel- Anton Drexler, Dietrich Eckart, Gottfried Feder, and Karl Harrer, first formed the German Worker's Party (DAP). Little did they know that the small party they had formed to discuss their antisemitic and nationalist ideals, would evolve into the National Socialist German Worker's Party (NSDAP) and go on to forever change Germany and the course of world history; leaving behind a legacy that remains an inspiration to some, or a cautionary tale wrought with tragedy and sorrow to this day. None of the founders would live to see the party and movement to its very end in 1945.

This is the story of National Socialism- its past, present, and potential future in whatever form it may take. A discussion or debate thread over its legacy and ramifications, good or bad. It is said to be the single greatest political movement of the 20th century besides Communism in terms of impacting our world. Given that the National Socialist movement in Germany spanned 26 years and quite a lot happened within this relatively short time frame, the full story of the NSDAP is too long and complex to post here: Its rise, its fall, its attempted revivals, and final evolution into the neo-Nazism of today.

It took 14 years for Adolf Hitler to rise to power and he had intended for his Third Reich to last for 1,000 years but it only lasted for 12, because his invasion of the Soviet Union had failed and he had aligned too many other industrialized nations against Germany.

I theorize that Nazism is seen as an inspiration for many if not most neo-Fascists because Nazi Germany for better or worse, was the most powerful and successful Fascist totalitarian state in human history in terms of sheer military power and accomplishments- even if Nazi Germany got itself vanquished in the end. Franco's Spain lasted for far longer, but Spain doesn't have the claim to fame of having conquered nearly an entire continent and more. Whilst Italy was a known weak power for the duration of its time as a Fascist state under Mussolini. It is tempting for a lot of people to think that Hitler's dreams of a German empire could've come true if World War II had gone in a different direction from different decisions being made.

People who lean towards Fascism are often impressed with the iconic SA or SS uniforms and are in awe with the classic and legendary anthem that was the Horst Wessel Lied that had fine enough lyrics and an appealing enough instrumental to influence the music for other Fascist movements the world over and the creation of variants from different countries beyond Germany.

With my thoughts out of the way, what do you think went wrong with National Socialism? Was the NSDAP evil from the beginning or was it primarily Adolf Hitler and his cohorts who hijacked the party from the founders of the ideology? Is it still even National Socialism if antisemitism is divorced from the platform but most of the other Fascist or social Darwinist elements are kept intact? Is Nazism something that can be modernized or salvaged in any way? What are your opinions on the Communist or Capitalist variations of neo-Nazism- the rumored NazBol (National Bolshevism) and NazCap (National Capitalist) movements on the internet?

Nazism is often discarded as the very worst the world of politics has to offer, but the way I see it- it wasn't the first nor will it be the last political force that did atrocities or caused a lot of damage in its wake, just look at ISIS.

In your view, is Nazism only a unique phenomenon confined to one place and era in world history or does it have potential for an indirect successor movement via the alt-right or a political party like France's Front National or Greece's Golden Dawn party?

In the best interests of complying with the rules of this website, please do not post neo-Nazi responses or glorify Adolf Hitler or the Holocaust. Thank you.

It starts out wrongly with the fact that the DAP was not anti-semetic and nationalist but not ultra-nationalist either, which in fact were main reasons why a portion of the DAP splitt into the NSDAP under Hitler.

I should also add that the DAP and NSDAP were bitter rivals and that the DAP sympathized and unionized with left wing workers parties too, unlike the NSDAP. Nor did the DAP engage in any sort of violant hooliganism like the NSDAP did right from the start.

[Lucifersguardian]

Capitalism and communism have been equally destructive. They are both materialist and egalitarian. The blood will always overcome money, and the forces that seek to replace us will be entirely defeated. The individual is a rootless extension of the crowd, and the individual is the adversary of the natural, organic hierarchy that is "life."

All systems are wealth driven. Resource driven systems fail because a select few end up controlling the wealth. People driven systems fail because humanity is only concerned with its immediate survival.
In the end both use leaders who that keep the system going in name only, but rule for a given social class.

[Kustonia]

Yes to National Socialism! Sieg Heil!

I'll never understand this trend of people thinking evil is cool.

National Socialism is NOT evil, it is the political process of life itself. National Socialism is more than just "cool", it is our natural instinct. If you want to know what evil is, just look at Communism and it's 332 million victims.