Japan surrenders to immigration

[Cedoria]

The period after Europe was hit by the Black Death was a period of major advancements in peasant rights and taking power from the nobility which eventually led to liberalism and the end of absolute aristocracy in Europe. This was because Labor shortages allowed peasants to demand more for their labor.

We should let these immigration crises produce similar results and gain in terms of workers rights AND preservation of our unique cultures, rather than acquiescing to a race to the bottom and neoliberal nonsense.

"Yes, that's right, there's a Labor shortage. Not enough workers. So that means not all of you capitalists can stay in business. Start bidding for us. If you lose this bidding war, you will go bankrupt."

Wah wah the economy will shrink.

So what.

Workers will have a bigger slice of it. Less rich fucks, and the rich fucks who remain having less of a share. Sounds positive.

Why should we bail out the rich AGAIN? This time by mortgaging our national stability and culture to facilitate a relentless wealth transfer from the bottom to the top without any regression of that trend because we keep doing these kind of policies?

Imagine if there was a general strike, but people from the miners union were scabs who worked for the automobile corporations, and the automobile workers were scabs working for the mines. Who would that benefit? Not workers, that's for sure, it seems like a situation built up specifically to fuck them over, right?

These immigrants should bloody stay where they are and demand better conditions instead of crossing the picket line. Everyone should be doing that.

And here is the fake leftist hot take I was expecting.

The labour movement is international or it ain't worth shit.

Indeed. If capital is international, labour should be as well. How else can we expect that 'level playing field' the ruling classes always bang on about while doing everything to stop.

[Ostroeuropa]

The period after Europe was hit by the Black Death was a period of major advancements in peasant rights and taking power from the nobility which eventually led to liberalism and the end of absolute aristocracy in Europe. This was because Labor shortages allowed peasants to demand more for their labor.

We should let these immigration crises produce similar results and gain in terms of workers rights AND preservation of our unique cultures, rather than acquiescing to a race to the bottom and neoliberal nonsense.

"Yes, that's right, there's a Labor shortage. Not enough workers. So that means not all of you capitalists can stay in business. Start bidding for us. If you lose this bidding war, you will go bankrupt."

Wah wah the economy will shrink.

So what.

Workers will have a bigger slice of it. Less rich fucks, and the rich fucks who remain having less of a share. Sounds positive.

Why should we bail out the rich AGAIN? This time by mortgaging our national stability and culture to facilitate a relentless wealth transfer from the bottom to the top without any regression of that trend because we keep doing these kind of policies?

Imagine if there was a general strike, but people from the miners union were scabs who worked for the automobile corporations, and the automobile workers were scabs working for the mines. Who would that benefit? Not workers, that's for sure, it seems like a situation built up specifically to fuck them over, right?

These immigrants should bloody stay where they are and demand better conditions instead of crossing the picket line. Everyone should be doing that.

And here is the fake leftist hot take I was expecting.

The labour movement is international or it ain't worth shit.

I'm proposing exactly that the Labour movement be international. The lack of international solidarity is what i'm criticizing here. Crossing picket lines is not something we should celebrate.

[Ostroeuropa]

Also, the Japanese economic and political power brought this on themselves by neglecting how their own economy has been downright hostile towards young Japanese trying to have the time and resources to build a family, at least in the traditional sense.

They haven't brought anything on themselves. They won't suffer one bit from this. It is merely the continuation of their abuses against the young Japanese and a necessary condition for it to be facilitated. If these measures are opposed and prevented, the abuses have to abate and recede. But you and other "Leftists" celebrate it because it makes society slightly more Brown or whatever and there's a chronic impulse to be pro-minority even where it makes no sense or harms workers.

[Benjabobaria]

Great! Glad that Japan is not prolonging the inevitable. I hope they can do a good job assimilating the immigrants and teaching their citizens not to be racist.

[Liriena]

And here is the fake leftist hot take I was expecting.

The labour movement is international or it ain't worth shit.

I'm proposing exactly that the Labour movement be international. The lack of international solidarity is what i'm criticizing here. Crossing picket lines is not something we should celebrate.

Immigrants are not "crossing picket lines", for fuck's sakes.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm proposing exactly that the Labour movement be international. The lack of international solidarity is what i'm criticizing here. Crossing picket lines is not something we should celebrate.

Immigrants are not "crossing picket lines", for fuck's sakes.

Yes, they are. They should remain in their own country and lobby for better wages rather than up and deciding to assist our capitalist class with their fucking over of the labor force of the country they move to and reducing their bargaining power.

Like I said, imagine if the mines and automobiles are both on strike and both provoking a labour shortage, but then their workers go to scab for eachothers companies while Liberals like yourself whine about how they are entitled to seek out a better quality of life, even though it means everyone loses out except the rich.

Without immigrants, capital would be forced to invest in education and raise wages.

[Reikoku]

Are we still ignoring that there are ethnic minority communities in Japan before this? Like the Vietnamese community is around 300,000 residents iirc. Around the same exact number of foreign workers that are being allowed in. This scenario is becoming a Rorschach test.

Oh, yes, I know Japan already has its own minorities. Not trying to erase them from the discussion.

Then why are you pretending that Japan was formerly ruled by a clique of ethnic nationalists (though anyone seeing Abe as an ethno-nationalist is laughable) who are only now letting in foreign workers because it is capitally expedient?

[Saiwania]

Great! Glad that Japan is not prolonging the inevitable. I hope they can do a good job assimilating the immigrants and teaching their citizens not to be racist.

It isn't inevitable. Japan could choose to simply not have much immigration or go into relative isolation like they did before for centuries. There might be some downsides, but that can easily be tolerated or diminished.

[Oil exporting People]

I'm proposing exactly that the Labour movement be international. The lack of international solidarity is what i'm criticizing here. Crossing picket lines is not something we should celebrate.

Immigrants are not "crossing picket lines", for fuck's sakes.

Being explicitly imported to work for occupations with low wages that natives don't wish to do for said lack of quality pay and working conditions is pretty much crossing the picket line as it removes any incentive on the part of employers to improve conditions. This also doesn't address the very real fact I pointed out earlier: There is no rational argument for immigration in contemporary times.

[Ostroeuropa]

What's better for international workers Lir, a couple of thousand of those individuals with the most capitalist aligned mentalities getting a bit more money while globally workers get worse and worse off, or entire societies moving collectively closer toward socialism and worker empowerment.

If barring immigrants led to a Socialist united kingdom, THAT has international implications. It has implications in terms of there now being a major player on the international stage prepared to go to bat for workers, major implications in terms of investment, and loans, and capital.

Increasing the bargaining power and share of the wealth of British workers or in this case Japanese workers is a better goal and more likely to bring meaningful systemic change than buying in to the individualist crap about individual immigrants being "better off" than the ones they left behind in a country without a Socialist Nation backing them, their rights, and their agency.

A socialist nation can back workers movements in other countries and their moves to secure more power. I'm not proposing isolationism. Merely anti-immigration measures.

The pro-migration rhetoric is built on liberal individualism because you cannot pretend it benefits anyone collectively. But you call me a fake leftist.

The existence of the USSR as a counterweight and a threat to the capitalist elite did more for workers in all countries of the world than some liberal nonsense about individualism being a good thing that we should celebrate ever did.

[Deutschess Kaiserreich]

That goes too far. They should be encouraging younger citizens to procreate more.

[Reikoku]

But you call me a fake leftist.

Because you're a national syndicalist who praises far-right thinkers like Oswald Mosley and Oswald Spengler, and appropriates leftist rhetoric to attack multiculturalism and immigration. You're basically Troy Southgate in a nutshell.

[Oil exporting People]

But you call me a fake leftist.

Because you're a national syndicalist who praises far-right thinkers like Oswald Mosley and Oswald Spengler, and appropriates leftist rhetoric to attack multiculturalism and immigration. You're basically Troy Southgate in a nutshell.

National Syndicalism is Third Positionist.

[Liriena]

Immigrants are not "crossing picket lines", for fuck's sakes.

Yes, they are. They should remain in their own country and lobby for better wages rather than up and deciding to assist our capitalist class with their fucking over of the labor force of the country they move to and reducing their bargaining power.

Like I said, imagine if the mines and automobiles are both on strike and both provoking a labour shortage, but then their workers go to scab for eachothers companies while Liberals like yourself whine about how they are entitled to seek out a better quality of life, even though it means everyone loses out except the rich.

Without immigrants, capital would be forced to invest in education and raise wages.

"Liberals like yourself"? Lmao fuck off all the way to your nazbol buds. I'm not taking that shit from a nationalist who casts immigrant workers as enemies of native workers for having the gall to escape from an impossible situation. You don't get to define other people's ideology.

Also, no. Shitting on immigrants doesn't guarantee that capital can and will be forced to make concessions. What major concessions has capital made to workers in Hungary, Italy or Poland? What concessions have been made in the United States?

[Ostroeuropa]

But you call me a fake leftist.

Because you're a national syndicalist who praises far-right thinkers like Oswald Mosley and Oswald Spengler, and appropriates leftist rhetoric to attack multiculturalism and immigration. You're basically Troy Southgate in a nutshell.

I'm not a national syndicalist, because i'm not an Integral nationalist.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, they are. They should remain in their own country and lobby for better wages rather than up and deciding to assist our capitalist class with their fucking over of the labor force of the country they move to and reducing their bargaining power.

Like I said, imagine if the mines and automobiles are both on strike and both provoking a labour shortage, but then their workers go to scab for eachothers companies while Liberals like yourself whine about how they are entitled to seek out a better quality of life, even though it means everyone loses out except the rich.

Without immigrants, capital would be forced to invest in education and raise wages.

"Liberals like yourself"? Lmao fuck off all the way to your nazbol buds. I'm not taking that shit from a nationalist who casts immigrant workers as enemies of native workers for having the gall to escape from an impossible situation. You don't get to define other people's ideology.

Also, no. Shitting on immigrants doesn't guarantee that capital can and will be forced to make concessions. What major concessions has capital made to workers in Hungary, Italy or Poland? What concessions have been made in the United States?

Hungaries wages have raised year on year now. This year they rose 10%. Ten fucking percent. You're ill informed precisely because the wealthy elite and their media would rather ignore that kind of stuff and focus on the admittedly authoritarian bullshit Hungary is engaged in.

The US doesn't have control over its immigration problem by any stretch of the imagination.

In the UK, wages rose as immigration fell post-brexit. Spooky!

[Reikoku]

Because you're a national syndicalist who praises far-right thinkers like Oswald Mosley and Oswald Spengler, and appropriates leftist rhetoric to attack multiculturalism and immigration. You're basically Troy Southgate in a nutshell.

I'm not a national syndicalist, because i'm not an Integral nationalist.

Neither were a lot of the so-called Italian national syndicalists who identified with the Risorgimento.

[Liriena]

Because you're a national syndicalist who praises far-right thinkers like Oswald Mosley and Oswald Spengler, and appropriates leftist rhetoric to attack multiculturalism and immigration. You're basically Troy Southgate in a nutshell.

I'm not a national syndicalist

No, you're just a nationalist and syndicalist who's just filled to the brim with endless generosity towards the far right.

[Liriena]

That goes too far. They should be encouraging younger citizens to procreate more.

Been there, done that, you can't encourage young people to have babies while also overworking and underpaying them to the point where they can't ever move out of their parents' homes, let alone form long-term romantic relationships.

[Liriena]

Oh, yes, I know Japan already has its own minorities. Not trying to erase them from the discussion.

Then why are you pretending that Japan was formerly ruled by a clique of ethnic nationalists (though anyone seeing Abe as an ethno-nationalist is laughable) who are only now letting in foreign workers because it is capitally expedient?

My wording was shit. I do apologize for that.

[Reikoku]

Then why are you pretending that Japan was formerly ruled by a clique of ethnic nationalists (though anyone seeing Abe as an ethno-nationalist is laughable) who are only now letting in foreign workers because it is capitally expedient?

My wording was shit. I do apologize for that.

Thank you.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, they are. They should remain in their own country and lobby for better wages rather than up and deciding to assist our capitalist class with their fucking over of the labor force of the country they move to and reducing their bargaining power.

Like I said, imagine if the mines and automobiles are both on strike and both provoking a labour shortage, but then their workers go to scab for eachothers companies while Liberals like yourself whine about how they are entitled to seek out a better quality of life, even though it means everyone loses out except the rich.

Without immigrants, capital would be forced to invest in education and raise wages.

"Liberals like yourself"? Lmao fuck off all the way to your nazbol buds. I'm not taking that shit from a nationalist who casts immigrant workers as enemies of native workers for having the gall to escape from an impossible situation. You don't get to define other people's ideology.

Also, no. Shitting on immigrants doesn't guarantee that capital can and will be forced to make concessions. What major concessions has capital made to workers in Hungary, Italy or Poland? What concessions have been made in the United States?

They're not enemies, merely not helping.

What's better for international workers Lir, a couple of thousand of those individuals with the most capitalist aligned mentalities getting a bit more money while globally workers get worse and worse off, or entire societies moving collectively closer toward socialism and worker empowerment.

If barring immigrants led to a Socialist united kingdom, THAT has international implications. It has implications in terms of there now being a major player on the international stage prepared to go to bat for workers, major implications in terms of investment, and loans, and capital.

Increasing the bargaining power and share of the wealth of British workers or in this case Japanese workers is a better goal and more likely to bring meaningful systemic change than buying in to the individualist crap about individual immigrants being "better off" than the ones they left behind in a country without a Socialist Nation backing them, their rights, and their agency.

A socialist nation can back workers movements in other countries and their moves to secure more power. I'm not proposing isolationism. Merely anti-immigration measures.

The pro-migration rhetoric is built on liberal individualism because you cannot pretend it benefits anyone collectively. But you call me a fake leftist.

The existence of the USSR as a counterweight and a threat to the capitalist elite did more for workers in all countries of the world than some liberal nonsense about individualism being a good thing that we should celebrate ever did.

This will help the countries that migrate to the west far more than merely helping out a handful of individuals escaping shit conditions imposed by capital ever could.

Our countries exploit the fuck out of them because we're capitalist. We're capitalist because workers do not have power. Immigration keeps that situation in place.

I'm not a national syndicalist

No, you're just a nationalist and syndicalist who's just filled to the brim with endless generosity towards the far right.

Their criticism is sometimes apt, their proposed solutions are shit though.

[Oil exporting People]

That goes too far. They should be encouraging younger citizens to procreate more.

Been there, done that, you can't encourage young people to have babies while also overworking and underpaying them to the point where they can't ever move out of their parents' homes, let alone form long-term romantic relationships.

Which is why we come back to another point; you are, again, removing any incentives to improve these conditions and at best are only giving a short fix.

[Liriena]

"Liberals like yourself"? Lmao fuck off all the way to your nazbol buds. I'm not taking that shit from a nationalist who casts immigrant workers as enemies of native workers for having the gall to escape from an impossible situation. You don't get to define other people's ideology.

Also, no. Shitting on immigrants doesn't guarantee that capital can and will be forced to make concessions. What major concessions has capital made to workers in Hungary, Italy or Poland? What concessions have been made in the United States?

Hungaries wages have raised year on year now. This year they rose 10%. Ten fucking percent. You're ill informed precisely because the wealthy elite and their media would rather ignore that kind of stuff and focus on the admittedly authoritarian bullshit Hungary is engaged in.

The US doesn't have control over its immigration problem by any stretch of the imagination.

In the UK, wages rose as immigration fell post-brexit. Spooky!

Sources. Now.

[Ostroeuropa]

Hungaries wages have raised year on year now. This year they rose 10%. Ten fucking percent. You're ill informed precisely because the wealthy elite and their media would rather ignore that kind of stuff and focus on the admittedly authoritarian bullshit Hungary is engaged in.

The US doesn't have control over its immigration problem by any stretch of the imagination.

In the UK, wages rose as immigration fell post-brexit. Spooky!

Sources. Now.

https://bbj.hu/economy/gross-wage-growt ... ust_156711

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... 0-year-low

It is shocking that you don't see how Labor being in higher demand would naturally increase its value.