Japan surrenders to immigration

[Purpelia]

1. If you allow too many foreigners into your country too quickly they will fail to assimilate and eventually overwhelm and swamp out your culture. In the short term this leads to social instability and in the long term it leads to bad things indeed.

Name literally one example of this happening.

- The large migrations into western Europe during the late Roman period.
- The Slavic settlements of Eastern Europe during the similar period.
- The Arab invasion of Persia during the rise of the first caliphate. Among other things demolished the local culture and primary religion mostly by conversion and settlement.
- The viking settlements and invasions of Britain which permanently altered the culture massively.
- The Seljuk, Tartar and Turkish settlements and invasions of Persia and previously Greek Anatolia eventually resulting in these regions completely changing hands cultural again.
- The Muslim conquests and later mass settlements of Eastern Europe and Spain, the consequences of which can still be felt to this day in the form of religious tensions so deep they have become ethnic.
- The North American and South American continents post white colonization.

Need I go on?

It is supremely racist to claim race and culture are equivalent or even strongly correlated beyond accidental geolocational happenstance.

This. I don't believe immigration destroys culture, but race and culture are not interchangeable. Maybe it may seem that way in exceptionally homogeneous countries like Japan, but it's certainly not.

I like to call it the Star Trek syndrome. This idea that all Klingons are warriors and all Romulans are sneaky. Fundamentally it's just disgusting 19th century racist theory transplanted into the modern age with a new coat of paint.

[Krasny-Volny]

Name literally one example of this happening.

- The large migrations into western Europe during the late Roman period.
- The Slavic settlements of Eastern Europe during the similar period.
- The Arab invasion of Persia during the rise of the first caliphate. Among other things demolished the local culture and primary religion mostly by conversion and settlement.
- The viking settlements and invasions of Britain which permanently altered the culture massively.
- The Seljuk, Tartar and Turkish settlements and invasions of Persia and previously Greek Anatolia eventually resulting in these regions completely changing hands cultural again.
- The Muslim conquests and later mass settlements of Eastern Europe and Spain, the consequences of which can still be felt to this day in the form of religious tensions so deep they have become ethnic.
- The North American and South American continents post white colonization.

Need I go on?

All of these cases seemed to have involved military invasion and conquest by force of arms, however. They aren't comparable to any kind of modern migration in the US or EU.

[Purpelia]

- The large migrations into western Europe during the late Roman period.
- The Slavic settlements of Eastern Europe during the similar period.
- The Arab invasion of Persia during the rise of the first caliphate. Among other things demolished the local culture and primary religion mostly by conversion and settlement.
- The viking settlements and invasions of Britain which permanently altered the culture massively.
- The Seljuk, Tartar and Turkish settlements and invasions of Persia and previously Greek Anatolia eventually resulting in these regions completely changing hands cultural again.
- The Muslim conquests and later mass settlements of Eastern Europe and Spain, the consequences of which can still be felt to this day in the form of religious tensions so deep they have become ethnic.
- The North American and South American continents post white colonization.

Need I go on?

All of these cases seemed to have involved military invasion and conquest by force of arms, however. They aren't comparable to any kind of modern migration in the US or EU.

Not really. The first several were just mass migrations, ones that were in fact welcomed by the than extend Roman empires as they provided a source of population growth from which to recruit their military. The Arab and Turkic conquests were conquests. But it was not the conquest that changed the culture but the centuries of migration and resulting pressure to assimilate that lead to the change. The Muslims at the time being actually quite cosmopolitan about it.
The Viking settlements were equally conquests only in the most tangential sense that the ruling elite changed. The cultural shift only came after mass migrations from the homelands. And indeed in some cases this happened without an invasion at all. See Normandy. And I would hardly call the colonization efforts of North America an invasion as it was a textbook example of uncontrolled ad hoc settlement with the locals being pushed out.

Bottom line is that if you allow a large population of foreigners to settle in your lands they will bring their culture with them. And over time they will act as a social and political block to try and get into power. Which in turn makes members of your own culture likely to convert for the sake of getting in on the privileged position.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So a country is literally dying a slow population decline
They let immigrants
You complain about immigration and blame women getting rights
Did I miss anything?

[Marirana]

https://boingboing.net/2019/01/01/japan-opens-its-doors-wide-to.html

In my opinion, the reason for it is Women's liberation and allowing women to participate in the workforce, making for women to have less time to think about children.

You realise the reason the government passed this legislation was because its policy to open the workforce to women and discourage stay-at-home mums to solve labour problems was a failure right?

If anything promoting more women in the workplace would've solved much of the labour issues, as would dismantling the stigma of a Japanese man not being a breadwinner for the family.

[Oil exporting People]

Inb4 someone points to a crime committed by anyone who is not Japanese and says "IMMIGRANTS ARE DEADLY!" Also, they haven't "surrendered". They have a serious labor shortage.

A temporary labor shortage.

[Utceforp]

All of these cases seemed to have involved military invasion and conquest by force of arms, however. They aren't comparable to any kind of modern migration in the US or EU.

Not really. The first several were just mass migrations, ones that were in fact welcomed by the than extend Roman empires as they provided a source of population growth from which to recruit their military. The Arab and Turkic conquests were conquests. But it was not the conquest that changed the culture but the centuries of migration and resulting pressure to assimilate that lead to the change. The Muslims at the time being actually quite cosmopolitan about it.
The Viking settlements were equally conquests only in the most tangential sense that the ruling elite changed. The cultural shift only came after mass migrations from the homelands. And indeed in some cases this happened without an invasion at all. See Normandy. And I would hardly call the colonization efforts of North America an invasion as it was a textbook example of uncontrolled ad hoc settlement with the locals being pushed out.

Bottom line is that if you allow a large population of foreigners to settle in your lands they will bring their culture with them. And over time they will act as a social and political block to try and get into power. Which in turn makes members of your own culture likely to convert for the sake of getting in on the privileged position.

In all these cases, unlike any modern case, the newcomers conquered their new land and became the new upper class. The cultural shift wasn't due to immigration, but rather overlords imposing their language and values on their subjects, as well as said subjects willingly adopting their ruler's language and values in order to increase their standing. Unless you think immigrants to Japan are planning to overthrow the government, Japanese culture is not under threat.

[Purpelia]

In all these cases, unlike any modern case, the newcomers conquered their new land and became the new upper class. The cultural shift wasn't due to immigration, but rather overlords imposing their language and values on their subjects, as well as said subjects willingly adopting their ruler's language and values in order to increase their standing. Unless you think immigrants to Japan are planning to overthrow the government, Japanese culture is not under threat.

No, not really. In most of these cases the upper class had literally zero interest in imposing anything on the local population other than taxes. You are projecting the power of a modern centralized state onto a historical context where conquest often meant literally making the foreign nobility swear to be loyal to you rather than their old king and leaving it at that.

[Eglaecia]

This is going to give ethnic Japanese even less of an incentive to try and reverse their demographic issues. I predict a lot of creepy white people with yellow fever filing for these visas.

[The New California Republic]

This is going to give ethnic Japanese even less of an incentive to try and reverse their demographic issues.

The problem is already there. I doubt a bit of immigration is going to stop Japanese people from having sex.

[Reikoku]

Japan has had immigration and foreign workers since the Meiji period. Where the bloody hell is this doomsday talk coming from?

[Oil exporting People]

Japan has had immigration and foreign workers since the Meiji period. Where the bloody hell is this doomsday talk coming from?

Wasn't the largest group Koreans at like 2% and that was it?

[The South Falls]

Japan has had immigration and foreign workers since the Meiji period. Where the bloody hell is this doomsday talk coming from?

Because gwobawism is ebil.

[The New California Republic]

Japan has had immigration and foreign workers since the Meiji period. Where the bloody hell is this doomsday talk coming from?

I mean, as far as the current situation goes, it is made difficult to ascertain precise ethnic demographics because:

The Ministry of Justice in Japan conflates nationality with ethnicity, and they have no official data on the actual ethnic breakdown of people in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_of_Japan

[Reikoku]

I find it interesting how quick people segue from "I'm not racist" to "immigration destroys culture" and back again.

It is supremely racist to claim race and culture are equivalent or even strongly correlated beyond accidental geolocational happenstance.

Depends on the culture, some are more ethnic than others.

[Duvniask]

Stupid, bait-y title.

As far as i am aware the Japanese government tried to encourage people to have more kids but seem to have failed. If this is needed for Japans economy to keep chugging along until their birth rate improves then so be it.

The LDP goverment has only taken symbolic half-measures at best, and at worst come up with empty promises and smoke screens as cover for their real ambitions; to change the constitution, empower the military and perpetuate the bureaucratic machine and its endless pork-barrel spending. To say they've "tried" much of anything is an exaggeration. Shinzō Abe talks the talk, but rarely does he walk the walk.

[Arcanda]

This stems from decades of moral emasculation. One should have seen it coming since as far back as 1945. I'm not an advocate of the harsh militarism of the pre-1945 years which only led to the downfall of Japan, but a strict and strong government, that actually fits the social workings of the country, would be better. It's always difficult to talk about a nation like Japan, but they seem to be ashamed of themselves. Japan should promote women's involvement in the workforce; raise the retirement age even more if need be - they can afford it given their life expectancy and conditions -; use robots of course; or simply size down - close down some facilities and public works, re-centralize. Of course, a better thing would be to promote a strong natalist policy. Perhaps put chilbearing at the center of biology classes for young girls and organize date nights.

I'd venture as far as to say that I'd rather see Japan empty, than Japan filled with foreigners; the same as I'd rather see my town die out than to see it populated with foreigners.
I don't intend to convince anybody here, because reading the last few pages, one cannot deny that migration, cultural exchange has always been there. But it's about values, the value one attributes to his country, and the beauty of its culture. I love my country, and in my heart I know that immigration has changed it, that the decrease of cultural homogeneity has caused many ills. I don't love Japan, but I know this change, if not altered in the next decade, will profoundly and irreversibly change it.

--

Obviously the temporary nature of the visas is reassuring, and Japanese society, due to its insular character, will last for much longer than, say, French or German society in staying "whole" or, for lack of a word with less racist intentions, "pure". But ultimately, Japan will become the next Western Europe. Indeed who thought, sixty years ago, in Paris or Berlin, that today things would be as they are?

It'd be easy to ridicule the above comments as talks of "doomsday". Well, it's actually only a doomsday if you have a certain set of values. If you do not value ethno-cultural homogeneity as a factor of success in some countries, then Japan opening to the world will not spell any doomsday for you, and indeed Japan, even if one day it has levels of migration like Europe has, will not collapse, but its culture will be changed for the worst. As I said my intro it's more about values.

[Oil exporting People]

Given that there is talk of automation eliminating 50% of jobs within the next generation, immigration just doesn't make sense anymore.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ok, so Japan is opening up to immigrants. So what?

[Purpelia]

It is supremely racist to claim race and culture are equivalent or even strongly correlated beyond accidental geolocational happenstance.

Depends on the culture, some are more ethnic than others.

Theoretically. But fundamentally culture is entirely a learned thing that you acquire post birth. It's one of the few nurture only things in human existence.

[Mardla]

The price of capitalism.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

So you hope that Japan doesn't become successful and happy like Sweden? Or have you been reading the YT comments that say that Sweden is a sort of hell on earth beacuse of the ebil muslim refugees?

Also:
>ebil globalism

wut?


Japan will be fine. They need a population boost.

Japan is better off than Sweden at present.

And YT comments are correct parts of Sweden are an absolute shithole.

Not what people in Sweden are saying about Sweden but ok.

"I'm extremely lucky to be living in this fucking country"- Actual Swed

[Washington Resistance Army]

Well if Japan doesn't want immigrants maybe it should start having kids. Just a thought.

[Oil exporting People]

Well if Japan doesn't want immigrants maybe it should start having kids. Just a thought.

Global fertility rates are falling as well, so immigration is a short term fix at best with long term consequences.

[Scomagia]

Seems pretty mild. Let me know when they relax rules on actually becoming a permanent resident, rather than merely making it easier to get a work visa.